Over on Reddit, DoktorTeufel has a problem: he likes the ladies, but he doesn’t like the feminists. Unfortunately, some ladies are also feminists! And therein lies the danger. Naturally, he turns to the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit for help.
I’m just going to come out and say it: I will never knowingly enter into a romantic relationship with a feminist. I do have some female relatives and acquaintances who are feminists … and it’s not like they all wear signs that proclaim I’M A FEMINIST. (Some do.)
Aside from obvious telltales (feminist bumper stickers, etc.) or outright asking them “Are you a feminist?”, what are some discreet ways to ferret out a woman’s views on gender activism without creating an awkward situation? Feminism is a minefield topic, and I certainly wouldn’t broach the subject directly with a woman I’ve just started dating.
Naturally, this being the Men’s Rights subreddit, he received much helpful advice. Celda broke it down for him:
You don’t really care whether she identifies as a feminist or not – you care what her views are.
For instance, does she feel women have the right to force men into parental obligations against their will?
Does she feel women are oppressed in Western society?
Does she think that women make less money than men for the same work?
If yes to these questions or similar, then you probably want to avoid her.
Exactly. Always avoid those with a basic grasp on reality. They’re the worst!
Naive1000 suggested looking for more subtle clues.
Ask their thoughts on “benevolent sexism” if they know what your talking about you likely have a feminist. Just to make sure go into male privilege, it’s the feminists’ most popular talking point. Let her talk about it then you can see what she’s really like. But, there are some women who call themselves feminists, but are really egalitarian: they just don’t know the term.
Memymineown also suggests a subtle approach, and holds out hope that some of the younger feminist girls can be won back to the path of righteousness:
Bring Men’s Rights issues into the conversation subtly. I was talking with my family about Justin Beiber and brought up the paternity charge and no rape charges filed against the woman.
That led into a discussion about how women aren’t punished for rape.
Just do things like that.
But you shouldn’t exclude all feminists. I would say that the vast majority are just girls(I do use that word on purpose) who have been lied to. Once you show them the real facts they will probably come around.
ThePigman, by contrast, urges DoktorTeufel to go for the jugular:
Why do you need to be discrete about it? Just ask her. If she is a member of the cult she will start screaming about the patriarchy, then her head will explode.
It’s true. Pretty much every conversation involving feminists quickly devolves into screaming about patriarchy. Heck, a feminist friend and I once screamed about patriarchy for five hours straight. We probably could have gone longer, but the manager at Applebee’s, evidently not a feminist, threw us out. Sometimes I start screaming about patriarchy when no one else is around, just to keep in practice.
Conversations with feminists pretty much all go like the conversation in the video below, only instead of a cat you need to picture a feminist, and instead of the word “no,” the word “patriarchy.” You can see how annoying that might get, and not just to Hitler.
Cuz wives control secks.
@ Ami
So far the funniest troll accusations meant to deeply wound me have been a. Hengist implying that I do not in fact have the job that I do actually have (that really stung!) and Meller asking me how many false rape accustations I’ve filed (oh noes, I am so upset!).
Well, there was also MRAL calling me arrogant for not wanting to fuck Russell Brand, but that was just flat-out hilarious.
Yup Quackers!
I was really hoping I would get this job too (both for money and it’s something I REALLY REALLY want to do :3 It’s about trans advocacy and education) so I’m really happy! 😀
*hugs* and ty!
@CassandraSays were you around when Crack Emcee called me the cruelest person Manboobz and that my Magyc cards were tarot cards meant to seduce ppl into a cult?
Brandon tried to offend me on multiple occasions, but since his attempts were so tedious I can’t actually remember any of them.
He literally linked me with rly dangerous actual cults xD
Crack Emcee thinks I’m the cruelest person here, NWO said I’m the vilest one here xD
Everybody else loves me 😀
gee I wonder how my ego is XD
I thought it was pretty funny when Alphalady asked me how my marriage was going.
Did someone say they are scared of kittehs? What about Kittehs with Seamen?
Navy Seamen Foster Stowaway Kittens
@ Ami
Indeed you are very cruel. Why must you make happy faces at people like NWO who are so miserable? That’s just mean.
http://ami-rants.blogspot.com/2011/06/awesome-rinoa-is-awesome-d.html
heres my contribution to the cute cat video party 😀
The first post in the thread was before 1 pm, and the last after 8 pm – which is over seven hours of sustained posting. Sounds like NWOtroll is a tad obsessed.
What I don’t get is why:
A) the MRAs can’t see that child-rearing is the foundation of a functional society and should be regarded as labor just like the bullcrap I do with computers is, and
B) the MRAs fetishize the 50s and 60s as the penultimate model for American society, when that period of time, when women provided unpaid child-rearing and domestic labor, was not only an anomaly, but also, a privilege reserved for the upper-middle and upper classes?
Both of my working-class grandmothers worked. So did every woman they knew. I’m the child of Italian immigrant great-grandparents who came to this country with nothing, and they settled in working-class areas of the country where the 50s fetishist lifestyle was not that prevalent. All those women couldn’t afford not to work, if they wanted their kids, the Baby Boomers, to have a better life than they did, instead of toiling in the hardscrabble poverty that their parents did. Betty Draper’s lifestyle was only available to the very upwardly mobile. The 50s and 60s were a blip on the radar of American history, not a model of modern living.
But seriously, if that’s the kind of lifestyle a man wants, there’s no reason he can’t have it. It’s easy. He just has to earn enough money so his wife can afford to stay home, and make sure to marry a woman who will never leave him, no matter how unappreciative he is of all her hard (unpaid) work, no matter how much either of them cheat, no matter how wrong they are for each other, and no matter how the marriage winds up going. I’m sure there are some women today who would be happy to have that lifestyle, and why should they be denied the chance? No one here is saying she shouldn’t. We’re just saying we would like the choice to work outside the home.
The Feminine Mystique is basic feminism reading 101. And while some trolls on here have apparently compared it to Mien Kampf, the “radical” point it makes is pretty simple: some women, just like some men, feel more fulfilled in life when they work outside the home. While someone whose logic and reasoning are lacking may find that radical notion akin to the concentration camps of WWII-era Europe, the rest of the world doesn’t.
Isn’t it so funny too how the types of men who insist how horrible working for money is and how wonderful and easy staying at home with the kids is, don’t actually live true to their words and become stay at home husbands?
and even though there are stay at home husbands, you’d think there would be this huge influx of them if they regard motherhood as such an easy, fulfilling life. Where are you guys? a stree-free and easy life awaits you as a stay at home husband!
“Then why are there fathers in prison for being unable to afford child support payments? Didn’t we do away with debtors prison ages ago?”
*giant eyeroll*
I’ve actually represented some of these fathers. In real live U.S. courts. The ones who were incarcerated were there on bench warrants prior to their hearings to make sure they didn’t run off again, not after their hearings to punish them for being in arrearage on their child support payments. I never had a single client go back to being incarcerated as punishment for not forking over child support. NOT ONE.
Now, either I was an UNBELIEVABLY FANTASTIC public defender (and even I will tell you that’s not true), or NWO is full of it.
Also, jailing someone for genuine inability to pay is a rampaging Fourteenth Amendment violation. Jailing people for unwillingness to pay, however, is not. I also had one client who was in this boat, and for whom I argued successfully that it would be an equal-protection violation to send him to jail just because he lacked the skills or abilities to make more than $182.00 every two weeks. (Ironically, he was the only one who really wanted to pay his child support – he felt like he’d been a crap failure as a dad, and wanted to give his kids something.)
*stress-free lol
Quackers – They tell themselves it’s because they are ever-noble, ever-sacrificing. They know the path of “get treated like an independent adult and have your own money to spend as you see fit” is the hard one, but they bravely take it on, because they are strong men willing to step up to a challenge.
Oh, and congrats, Ami! New jobs are exciting!
Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution:
[Congress shall have the power] to borrow money on the credit of the United States.
That’s in the original 1787 version. Unlike NWO, I’ve actually read the Constitution.
Also, NWO? Alexander Hamilton would like a stern word with you about the importance of a central bank.
@Holly
then they can step up to the challenge of not assuming life owes them a housekeeper and babysitter…oh…I’m sorry, wife, who will throw away her dreams to work for nothing.
OMG, kittens and sailors! Iz ded from teh cyoot.
Quackers – But she should be grateful! Free room and board!
That’s a much better deal than having room, board, disposable income, and freedom. The latter two are such burdens.
@Anti-Moron’s Rights
I’m currently started reading The Feminine Mystique. I heard it’s got it’s own problems from feminists themselves…hopefully it won’t ruin the underlying message though. So far it’s made me pretty ticked off but thankful I didn’t grow up in the 50s and 60s. I mean, in addition to being forced into being housewives, all those magazines Betty was talking about didn’t even bother talking about important world issues. Delicate little ladybrains can’t handle them or care about them! articles on doilies and looking pretty are the only things women want to read about!
@Holly
Freedom is slavery, remember that!
A lot of that “but feminism huuuuurts women” shit that MRAs try to pull is pretty much saying just that.
Congratulations on the new job, Ami! That’s wonderful news!!
And your trollstomp of NWO was poetry in motion!