Over on Reddit, DoktorTeufel has a problem: he likes the ladies, but he doesn’t like the feminists. Unfortunately, some ladies are also feminists! And therein lies the danger. Naturally, he turns to the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit for help.
I’m just going to come out and say it: I will never knowingly enter into a romantic relationship with a feminist. I do have some female relatives and acquaintances who are feminists … and it’s not like they all wear signs that proclaim I’M A FEMINIST. (Some do.)
Aside from obvious telltales (feminist bumper stickers, etc.) or outright asking them “Are you a feminist?”, what are some discreet ways to ferret out a woman’s views on gender activism without creating an awkward situation? Feminism is a minefield topic, and I certainly wouldn’t broach the subject directly with a woman I’ve just started dating.
Naturally, this being the Men’s Rights subreddit, he received much helpful advice. Celda broke it down for him:
You don’t really care whether she identifies as a feminist or not – you care what her views are.
For instance, does she feel women have the right to force men into parental obligations against their will?
Does she feel women are oppressed in Western society?
Does she think that women make less money than men for the same work?
If yes to these questions or similar, then you probably want to avoid her.
Exactly. Always avoid those with a basic grasp on reality. They’re the worst!
Naive1000 suggested looking for more subtle clues.
Ask their thoughts on “benevolent sexism” if they know what your talking about you likely have a feminist. Just to make sure go into male privilege, it’s the feminists’ most popular talking point. Let her talk about it then you can see what she’s really like. But, there are some women who call themselves feminists, but are really egalitarian: they just don’t know the term.
Memymineown also suggests a subtle approach, and holds out hope that some of the younger feminist girls can be won back to the path of righteousness:
Bring Men’s Rights issues into the conversation subtly. I was talking with my family about Justin Beiber and brought up the paternity charge and no rape charges filed against the woman.
That led into a discussion about how women aren’t punished for rape.
Just do things like that.
But you shouldn’t exclude all feminists. I would say that the vast majority are just girls(I do use that word on purpose) who have been lied to. Once you show them the real facts they will probably come around.
ThePigman, by contrast, urges DoktorTeufel to go for the jugular:
Why do you need to be discrete about it? Just ask her. If she is a member of the cult she will start screaming about the patriarchy, then her head will explode.
It’s true. Pretty much every conversation involving feminists quickly devolves into screaming about patriarchy. Heck, a feminist friend and I once screamed about patriarchy for five hours straight. We probably could have gone longer, but the manager at Applebee’s, evidently not a feminist, threw us out. Sometimes I start screaming about patriarchy when no one else is around, just to keep in practice.
Conversations with feminists pretty much all go like the conversation in the video below, only instead of a cat you need to picture a feminist, and instead of the word “no,” the word “patriarchy.” You can see how annoying that might get, and not just to Hitler.
Hellkell – As Jews are sworn to always lie, all I can tell you is that the treasure is not behind the gates marked 1 or 3.
My Buddhist counterpart who always tells the truth and the Hindu who tells the truth half the time and lies half the time will fill you in on the rest.
Did you read my previous post at 7:48?
Did YOU? xD
If only NWO was more of a free thinker so that he could admit that the only religion that truly addresses his needs is Satanism.
Well, except for the bit where women are encouraged to be openly sexual. Fundamentalist Satanism?
And KIDS, NWO, KIDS. This is about CHILDCARE.
There is a big difference between mopping for one or two and caring for a child.
“reguardless”
Are you using Internet Explorer? Do you not have any form of spell check? Or do you think those squiggly red lines are decorations?
‘Cause otherwise I’d think you were losing composure, and I’m sure that can’t be true…
@Amused
That piece I Want a Wife perfectly explains why I never want to marry or have kids. It is tantamount to slavery in my honest opinion. I’d rather die alone with 10 cats than live a life like that. And yes I’m being completely serious.
I don’t think NWO and the rest of these MRA or traditionalist freaks realize how demeaning it is to throw your entire life, dreams, goals and economic freedom away just to clean up after a husband and kids. They call in natural femininity, I call it slavery.
If some women really want that life and have a husband who is willing to engage in it, fine by me. But the difference here is having society and laws force it on you, rather than choosing if you do or not. We don’t force or encourage people to practice D/s. They choose that lifestyle for themselves. Its the same thing.
and in this thread he brought up my mom being abusive–the man remembers, which is pretty surprising considering
He did that? -_-
Wow NWO, low, even for you o:<
Is there a difference between mopping the floor for one or two? Vacuming for one or two? Dusting for one or two. They’re all are done reguardless of one or two people.
Changing diapers. Bathing children. Bringing them to school. Care for them when they’re sick. Helping with homework. Etc.
‘Cause otherwise I’d think you were losing composure, and I’m sure that can’t be true…
Of course it can’t!
NWO lose composure when a certain angelcatbunny shows up? xD
NEVAR! XD
I dun even have to do nething nemore xD I used to have to logic wrangle NWO…. now I just exist and it puts him on tilt xD His math gets worse, his arguments get worse, and he gets angrier and angrier xD
@Quackers
“Money=freedom. If you are able bodied and don’t have severe mental disabilities you have the right to work for money to support yourself and to live your life how you see it.’
And again you go under the assumption a man is holding something over you. Why? Why always the worse case scenario?
This is the problem with feminism. It’s always find the worse case example of the worse man in history as the model and reason to fear and hate men.
And on the flip side you have there’s a man in power who makes oodles of money why shouldn’t all women make the same as the richesy man in the world.
Neither is the case. Ya see, I’m down at the bottom and so is every man I know. And I do treat women quite nice so when I hear about “holding money” over women I will naturally get pissed. I don’t know any men like that.
It’s all bullshit.
Holly, that made me laugh.
@NWO
why are you so daft that you cannot see the differences between being PAID TO WORK A JOB and doing housework FOR FREE. This is the issue. Not the time it takes, the fact that you expect women to do it for you FOR FREE.
To simplify:
I work for money, and I only clean after for me = single life
I have no job thus making no money and I clean for 2 or 3 or 5 = traditional married life
If you can’t see the problem with this, then you are hopeless.
Ami – Like you, there’s shit I’m sensitive about, and no way in hell am I ever going to reference it here.
I’d hate for NWO to know that I’m terribly emotional and vulnerable about SEEING A RED COW. So if anyone posted any pictures of A RED COW, that would be a tremendous betrayal and send me into quivers and sobs. I really hope no one brings up the RED COW thing especially since it’s totally irrelevant to the discussion here.
*waits patiently for NWO to start mooing*
NWO, women don’t need to find the worst man in history when we’ve got you. You are a PSA unto yourself.
If you’re so upset about people getting something you’re not, and yo think you’re at the bottom, why not try to get out? What’s stopping you? Is it feminism?
I don’t think men should do housework and childcare for free.
It’s just that there aren’t so many people asking them to.
I hate elephants! No one mention elephants! Don’t even think about elephants!
I’ve actually alrdy referenced what could hurt me here. :3
I hide all my vulnerabilities in the open, that way you can’t tell what the are by what I’m guarded about.
It’s like the little thing about “put a little truth in your lies, it makes them easier to swallow”. I mix all the things that don’t bother me with things that do, so ppl can’t tell 😀
I am always ttlly open, I’m just smarter than the av-er-age NWO. xD
I wonder if that’s why he only really answers my actual comments (with his usual nonsense) rather than trying to upset me – he can’t see any obvious vulnerable spots to poke at.
This is the problem with feminism. It’s always find the worse case example of the worse man in history as the model and reason to fear and hate men.
Isn’t that what NWO does? o_O Like he’s always talking about the worst case example of the worst woman in history as the model for his misogyny xD
(it’s worsT btw NWO, not worsE)
@Quackers
“I don’t think NWO and the rest of these MRA or traditionalist freaks realize how demeaning it is to throw your entire life, dreams, goals and economic freedom away just to clean up after a husband and kids. They call in natural femininity, I call it slavery.”
And here we have it again, being a wife and mother is slavery. Feminism hates the traditional family. Feminism hates wives. Feminism hates motherhood. Anything to do with a man is hated.
I’m outta here.
Because that is what many traditionalist-minded men want. Don’t play dumb with me NWO. You know very well the mindset of MRAs and their career bitches and lawyercunts and how they look down on women who choose to actually get paid for their work. You can’t stand the fact that us horrible modern women refuse to just throw everything away for nothing.
Egalitarian relationships do not do this. They make arrangements so that both the man and women benefit and get something out of it.
I am deathy afraid of cats. Please do not post any adorably kitty videos or I shall curl up into the fetal position and cry.
(And then men will give me money)
Like Anti-Moron’s-Rights, I was raised in a super-privileged home. My parents placed education at a premium and I had constant encouragement to develop whatever skills and hobbies I had an interest in. My dad’s enjoyment at my sister and I learning HTML has secured me jobs that I wouldn’t have had otherwise. There really isn’t a monetary value on that, is there?
Well, there’s the rub in my case. Both my parents worked well over 40 hrs/week, so I was raised by grandparents and daycare (both free) when younger, and was a latchkey kid when I got older. We weren’t necessarily encouraged to develop whatever career skills we wanted, either. It was more like, “Get As and Bs, or you’re in trouble,” and “You’re going to college, and ideally, should be either a doctor or a lawyer when you grow up – pick one.” To their credit, my grandparents instilled in me a basic fear of discipline and appreciation for schoolwork, but I was also a poorly behaved ADHD kid who was often absent or ditching, and who was only decent college material by virtue of smarts and mostly, my SAT scores. My brother, left alone at home after I went off to college, got expelled over a truly trivial incident, and wound up in a private alternative school. (He did better in college and got further in higher ed – grad school – than I ever did.)
And my mother was an abusive mother, quite terribly so (though she’s reformed), so I lived with my dad after my parents’ divorce.
You really can’t put a pricetag on the value of labor for raising a child. Even so, I don’t blame anyone in my life for how I turned out, except perhaps the stifling, stupid school system, which rewarded the model students, helped the kids with severe learning difficulties, expelled one or two kids each year to “make an example,” and essentially, told the rest of us to go to hell.
Like you, I don’t want kids either. I have no desire, and that’s enough reason not to. When someone who is offended that I don’t view my body as an incubator of future taxpayers for the state throws out the old “You wouldn’t BE HERE if your mother chose abortion,” my internal reaction is typically, “So? She would have been happier that way, and I’d never have known the difference.” But truly, I don’t give a flying fig Newton whether anyone else wants to be a parent or not, so long as I have the choice not to be. People don’t pester me as much about not reproducing now that I’m older, but just in case they do, I have a witty response for the “Why don’t you want kids?” question, courtesy of the New York Times:
“Why don’t I want kids? Oh, well I like to spend my money on booze and gambling and then waste the rest.”
I think he just hates me a lot… xD I’ve been open about being trans for a while and he doesn’t get personal until recently when I’ve just been driving me away every night. xD He needs to fight back! I think he knows that he can’t keep it up, so he’s trying to drive ME off