Over on Reddit, DoktorTeufel has a problem: he likes the ladies, but he doesn’t like the feminists. Unfortunately, some ladies are also feminists! And therein lies the danger. Naturally, he turns to the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit for help.
I’m just going to come out and say it: I will never knowingly enter into a romantic relationship with a feminist. I do have some female relatives and acquaintances who are feminists … and it’s not like they all wear signs that proclaim I’M A FEMINIST. (Some do.)
Aside from obvious telltales (feminist bumper stickers, etc.) or outright asking them “Are you a feminist?”, what are some discreet ways to ferret out a woman’s views on gender activism without creating an awkward situation? Feminism is a minefield topic, and I certainly wouldn’t broach the subject directly with a woman I’ve just started dating.
Naturally, this being the Men’s Rights subreddit, he received much helpful advice. Celda broke it down for him:
You don’t really care whether she identifies as a feminist or not – you care what her views are.
For instance, does she feel women have the right to force men into parental obligations against their will?
Does she feel women are oppressed in Western society?
Does she think that women make less money than men for the same work?
If yes to these questions or similar, then you probably want to avoid her.
Exactly. Always avoid those with a basic grasp on reality. They’re the worst!
Naive1000 suggested looking for more subtle clues.
Ask their thoughts on “benevolent sexism” if they know what your talking about you likely have a feminist. Just to make sure go into male privilege, it’s the feminists’ most popular talking point. Let her talk about it then you can see what she’s really like. But, there are some women who call themselves feminists, but are really egalitarian: they just don’t know the term.
Memymineown also suggests a subtle approach, and holds out hope that some of the younger feminist girls can be won back to the path of righteousness:
Bring Men’s Rights issues into the conversation subtly. I was talking with my family about Justin Beiber and brought up the paternity charge and no rape charges filed against the woman.
That led into a discussion about how women aren’t punished for rape.
Just do things like that.
But you shouldn’t exclude all feminists. I would say that the vast majority are just girls(I do use that word on purpose) who have been lied to. Once you show them the real facts they will probably come around.
ThePigman, by contrast, urges DoktorTeufel to go for the jugular:
Why do you need to be discrete about it? Just ask her. If she is a member of the cult she will start screaming about the patriarchy, then her head will explode.
It’s true. Pretty much every conversation involving feminists quickly devolves into screaming about patriarchy. Heck, a feminist friend and I once screamed about patriarchy for five hours straight. We probably could have gone longer, but the manager at Applebee’s, evidently not a feminist, threw us out. Sometimes I start screaming about patriarchy when no one else is around, just to keep in practice.
Conversations with feminists pretty much all go like the conversation in the video below, only instead of a cat you need to picture a feminist, and instead of the word “no,” the word “patriarchy.” You can see how annoying that might get, and not just to Hitler.
Holy shit, you’re pathetic. You’ve just been waiting for any excuse to try to insult Ami without actually talking to her, haven’t you, you coward? I bet you were absolutely giddy when you got the chance.
Your “normal” world is a self-induced hell, NWO. Have fun!
Actually NWO, most of society and a lot of the ppl with authority actually believe the way you do about trans ppl. It’s… weird you think you’re like the only one or something o_O
But right, you gotta be the brave rebel xD
fathers in prison for not being ABLE to pay child support is terrible. But it’s not the modern scourge of earth. It happens, and it’s bad, but it’s not the ultimate SHUT UP THIS IS THE MAIN ISSUE THIS IS WHAT YOU FEMINISTS WANT LOOK AT THE PAIN YOU MOOCHING BITCHES LOOK AT THE PAIIIIIN YOU INFLICT!
My ex hasn’t paid a fucking dime of his child support, and I haven’t taken him to court for it, because he’s a vindictive asshole and other reasons. Plenty of women are n’t throwing their deadbeat dads in any sort of jail. I know it’s unpossible, but that’s reality too.
That taxes end at the barrel of a gun or a jail cell IS important, even if those taxes are all going to wonderful things, and the system is working like a greased … working thing that works better with grease on it *hic!*
But they END at the barrel of the gun. And there’s lots of other things they’re doing to us that weigh a lot heavier and more immediately on the lives of many than that.
Holy shit, you’re pathetic. You’ve just been waiting for any excuse to try to insult Ami without actually talking to her, haven’t you, you coward? I bet you were absolutely giddy when you got the chance.
But it’s more fun that way XD
And his self imposed restrictions gives me a nice barrier too xD of his own design! 😀
I think part of it also is that if NWO addresses me, he can’t use third person pronouns… all he can say is “you” and therefore he knows it’s gonna be obvious he genders me female in his mind by the way he talks to me. xD He needs somewhere where he can make his bold statement of I SWEAR I THINK AMI IS A DUDE!! NO I DO! xD
Total time children need supervision: 24 hours a day.
Okay, they’ll sleep for maybe 9 or 10, but they do get up in the middle of night and need things, too, so you need to be at least “on call” 24 hours a day.
Anyway, you’re big on yelling “I WON’T PAY 60K!” but surprisingly small on making the case for “free.” Why should I bother, again?
Children sleep for 9-10 hours a day!?
THOSE LAZY BITCHES!
What’s always bothered me about the “cost of child-raising” argument is that it measures it only in monetary value. Okay, so a child costs X amount of money to raise, on average. But isn’t there also value in things like, free time to pursue hobbies, happiness and leisure, or a sense of stability? These things are essential to people, too, not just the bare minimums, for both adults and children.
Like Anti-Moron’s-Rights, I was raised in a super-privileged home. My parents placed education at a premium and I had constant encouragement to develop whatever skills and hobbies I had an interest in. My dad’s enjoyment at my sister and I learning HTML has secured me jobs that I wouldn’t have had otherwise. There really isn’t a monetary value on that, is there?
I’m very strongly childfree. I do not want kids around me, I don’t like them, and I don’t want any. But I’m also very strongly pro-child in practice. I will pay more taxes for good schools, good nutritional programs, extra childcare for families, the opportunities for kids to learn and have good experiences. Even on just a selfish level, a well-rounded, well-fed society benfits ME. Not only is it good for them, but I see benefits. I have healthier people around me, lower insurance premiums, and I can count on people being well-educated. A pretty sweet deal, indeed.
Curious to see how NWO responds to Zhinxy.
OH WAIT TOTAL IGNORE xD
NWO prolly just assumed Zhinxy is lying and her abusive husband has good reasons for abusing her.
Men = good
Women = badz
Meller made an exception for Zhinxy’s abuse in his unifying theory of she totally asked for it
Somehow I doubt NWO will though. He’s very consistent and thorough in his abuse-excusing xD
I think a lot of it is that NWO treasures the idea that he has a way to really get to someone, and holds dear the illusion that he’s totally getting under your skin and destroying your ego.
Any time someone says something that might make them vulnerable when he’s around (I noticed this when I talked about being sexually assaulted and again when I talked about having survival sex, and in this thread he brought up my mom being abusive–the man remembers, which is pretty surprising considering), he tries his damndest to twist the knife in them.
…Like Jesus would have wanted.
@Quackers
I mean lets be real here, Quackers. If you live by yourself you have to cook, clean, laundry, shop and all that other stuff.
If I’m shopping and I pick up 2 pounds of gound chuck instead of 1 there really wasn’t any extra effort. A gallon of milk instead of a half gallon.
I clean the bathroom, well nothing really changed there. Right?
I cooked 4 pieces of chicken instead of 2. twice the amount of green beans. An extra potato or two. What’s changed? An extra utensile or two? Another plate?
I do 4 loads of laundry instead of 2. I don’t “watch” the washer or dryer. 20 minutes to fold instead of ten.
You see all those things get done reguarless of being 2 people or 1. So the “extra” is really all that “extra” after all. 20% more time than just doing what you have to do for yourself.
Shaenon has already given you a very attractive counteroffer. I, in turn, and going to give you mine, borrowed from Judy Brady’s “I want a wife”:
So, NWO — would you like to be my wife?
When I am through with school and have a job, I want my wife to quit working and remain at home so that my wife can more fully and completely take care of a wife’s duties.
@NWO
If I’m cleaning up after myself, I’m not getting paid. But you’re forgetting the key factor in all this…I work for money. At home doing freelance for now. It’s not a lot, but I’m paid for my services. The traditional housewife is NOT. Why do you as a man, think you are entitled to another adult women cleaning up after you and your kids for no money. Or one who has to demean herself like a child and beg for an allowance from you.
Money=freedom. If you are able bodied and don’t have severe mental disabilities you have the right to work for money to support yourself and to live your life how you see it.
Fuck, even my grandmother who has a traditional marriage still worked for some extra money from her home.
Holly, Jesus would totes be down with NWO’s behavior!
“Women = badz”
I initially read that as “women = batz”. Which would make more sense than anything that NWO is rambling about.
And lo, Jesus said “Bitches ain’t shit but hos and tricks.”
Hey NWO: RAISING CHILDREN. NOT JUST HOUSEWORK. FACTOR IT IN INSTEAD OF CHANGING THE SUBJECT.
Carefull, Hellkell! If we tell him Christianity is a religion of forgiveness and love he’ll tell us that all Jews put baby’s blood in wells to cause the plague.
Because that’s, you know, a zero-sum game.
Lauralot, I think he may have also said “I got 99 problems, but a bitch ain’t one.”
You mean you DON’T, Holly?!?
@hellkell: Don’t forget “Let he who is without sin BEAT HER IN THE STREET.”
@Holly except he’s picking the wrong thing xD
If I was so sensitive to transphobia by trolls does NWO rly think I’d have said I was trans? xD
He’s angry he didn’t figure it out on his own b/c he SHOULD have given his whole “MEN AND WOMEN ARE COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY GENETICALLY DIFFERENT” thing xD
There ARE things NWO could twist the knife in me for… but he’s picking the wrong one xD
Like attacking Ozy for being a “slut” (oh noes!)
@Quackers
Did you read my previous post at 7:48?
Like I said you have to do all those things for yourself now. For the most part the “extra” time is negligible or non-existant.
Is there a difference between mopping the floor for one or two? Vacuming for one or two? Dusting for one or two. They’re all are done reguardless of one or two people.
His need to stab at me though I love, cuz whenever he does it it shows he’s fraying at the edges like mad cuz I’m around xD
He gets REALLY personal nasty when he’s rly upset and off his game. xD