Over on Reddit, DoktorTeufel has a problem: he likes the ladies, but he doesn’t like the feminists. Unfortunately, some ladies are also feminists! And therein lies the danger. Naturally, he turns to the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit for help.
I’m just going to come out and say it: I will never knowingly enter into a romantic relationship with a feminist. I do have some female relatives and acquaintances who are feminists … and it’s not like they all wear signs that proclaim I’M A FEMINIST. (Some do.)
Aside from obvious telltales (feminist bumper stickers, etc.) or outright asking them “Are you a feminist?”, what are some discreet ways to ferret out a woman’s views on gender activism without creating an awkward situation? Feminism is a minefield topic, and I certainly wouldn’t broach the subject directly with a woman I’ve just started dating.
Naturally, this being the Men’s Rights subreddit, he received much helpful advice. Celda broke it down for him:
You don’t really care whether she identifies as a feminist or not – you care what her views are.
For instance, does she feel women have the right to force men into parental obligations against their will?
Does she feel women are oppressed in Western society?
Does she think that women make less money than men for the same work?
If yes to these questions or similar, then you probably want to avoid her.
Exactly. Always avoid those with a basic grasp on reality. They’re the worst!
Naive1000 suggested looking for more subtle clues.
Ask their thoughts on “benevolent sexism” if they know what your talking about you likely have a feminist. Just to make sure go into male privilege, it’s the feminists’ most popular talking point. Let her talk about it then you can see what she’s really like. But, there are some women who call themselves feminists, but are really egalitarian: they just don’t know the term.
Memymineown also suggests a subtle approach, and holds out hope that some of the younger feminist girls can be won back to the path of righteousness:
Bring Men’s Rights issues into the conversation subtly. I was talking with my family about Justin Beiber and brought up the paternity charge and no rape charges filed against the woman.
That led into a discussion about how women aren’t punished for rape.
Just do things like that.
But you shouldn’t exclude all feminists. I would say that the vast majority are just girls(I do use that word on purpose) who have been lied to. Once you show them the real facts they will probably come around.
ThePigman, by contrast, urges DoktorTeufel to go for the jugular:
Why do you need to be discrete about it? Just ask her. If she is a member of the cult she will start screaming about the patriarchy, then her head will explode.
It’s true. Pretty much every conversation involving feminists quickly devolves into screaming about patriarchy. Heck, a feminist friend and I once screamed about patriarchy for five hours straight. We probably could have gone longer, but the manager at Applebee’s, evidently not a feminist, threw us out. Sometimes I start screaming about patriarchy when no one else is around, just to keep in practice.
Conversations with feminists pretty much all go like the conversation in the video below, only instead of a cat you need to picture a feminist, and instead of the word “no,” the word “patriarchy.” You can see how annoying that might get, and not just to Hitler.
Debtors prison, yeah. But we still send people to prison for fraud.
Hateful feminist! OF COURSE you side with the woman over the man! If he’s in jail he MUST have committed fraud!
Women = good
Men = NWO
Has the “all women only chose easy jobs” argument come up yet? My eyes are starting to glaze over.
@Holly Pervocracy
“What is the difference between a wife and a live-in housekeeper?”
Oh I don’t know? It’s a fucking mystery! What your saying is that me busting my ass is worth less than cooking and cleaning. But since I do my own cooking and cleaning that’s worth more in real dollars than the work I do outside the home. Total bullshit. There’s no way my work at home, even if I did it for two people could come close in value to what I do outside the home.
You’re telling me it takes 8 hours straight labor (40 hours a week) to keep an apartment or home for 2? Buuuuullllllshit.
I think the real reason he can’t read your xDs is that he can’t resolve the “She shouldn’t have rights because she’s a woman, but she’s not a woman… ERROR ERROR ERROR” in his head.
He can’t overcome his misogyny long enough to be properly transphobic, and I think that kinda breaks him.
@ zhinxy:
Well, I’d go about it differently, I think, and I approach from a radical start-over perspective rather than a reformist one, but I’m, seriously, so very with you in a roundabout way.
In terms of many aspects of American society, I agree with you. I hold some libertarian beliefs, some anarchist beliefs, and some socialist beliefs, and I’m not quite sure how they’d interplay to create the ideal society. As a creative with ADHD who would have flunked out of high school, had I been a Millennial left to wade through No Child Left Behind testing, I am 100 percent with you that the entire American education system needs a radical do-over. I think that the tax code does, as well. While I believe the federal government is most efficient at administering certain services, like healthcare and transportation, or protecting basic civil rights (like the right to be a young black man and not beaten to shit by police), I also believe many of its alphabet soup departments could be cut back or eliminated.
I don’t want special pay equality laws or to be protected by the government as a special, “better” class – although I do want the government the hell out of my body when it comes to deciding what to do with an unwanted pregnancy or what drugs to take. I’d like to retire early and more and more, I’ve been thinking of living on a sweet ranch or bungalow in a rural area (like Jerry Cantrell). My ideal president is some hybrid of Gary Johnson, Dennis Kucinich, and my anarchist co-op friend.
While I admit I don’t have all of the answers, I am totally with you that we need to fix this shit – either through serious reform, or tearing down and starting again. In the day-to-day, I’m conflicted about how to do this. So I focus on my pet issues: HIV/AIDS research and education. GLBT rights and issues. (I write about both on the side – and surprise! – my advocacy helps MEN disproportionately more.) And above all, informing people about the myriad ways in which the government and mega-corporations have joined together to fuck them, every single day. Some people cling tightly to the system that fucks them – Republicans and Democrats, feminists and MRAs, alike. I can disagree with their ideas, but in the end, how they see the world is up to them.
Anyone whose heart is in the right place, though, I hold in very high regard. People who campaign against their own interests, and hope to destroy the lives of those around them in the process, especially because basic facts elude them, not so much.
XD
NWO is getting angrier… I wonder why xD
He’s swearing now! 😀
*whistles innocently*
The reason I know it’s bullshit is because I already do that.
NWO – Then why do people ever pay housekeepers/chefs/nannies more than room and board?
I don’t understand why you can have a live-in housekeeper for $400/week, marry her, and then get the exact same services for free. Does that make sense to you?
There’s no way my work at home, even if I did it for two people could come close in value to what I do outside the home.
I thought the value of what you do outside the home isn’t v much. That IS what you’ve been complaining about in the past.
That you’d be doing MUCH more valuable and important work if only you were a woman and AA didn’t prevent you from getting those jobs.
If society dictates that you get married and not have a career and focus all your labor in the home, then yeah you do deserve to get paid for that labor. However in the case of the single man/single woman lifestyle, there you actually ARE working and getting paid, so it doesn’t matter if you get paid or not for housework. Chances are also that housework becomes a lot more easier too when you only have yourself to care for than if you do for a family.
This attitude is why traditional female jobs like childcare, PSW and nursing are not paid as well (which IMO is what contributes to the wage gap) it’s just not regarded as important…yet if no one was there to do it…..well that would be an interesting sight to see.
NWO, you yourself have said that busting your ass doesn’t pay very well. Maybe it’s time for a change?
@Holly Pervocracy
“He can’t overcome his misogyny long enough to be properly transphobic, and I think that kinda breaks him.”
Here’s how backward the world is. Send Ami to a shrink and the shink’ll say he’s right and everyone else in the world is wrong. Is that not insanity. In a normal world the shrink would try to actually help. But no, the world is wrong. Insanity.
NWO, I’ve said this before. Why don’t you pretend to be a feminist man, marry a nice feminist woman who will work and you can stay home and tend house?
(and before you whine about pretending, that’s what you claim female privilege is, that if we pretend to be somebody we’re not we can get a husband)
Just a friendly reminder: If you don’t want to make yourself look stupid, make sure that you’re typing correctly. It’s fine to make occasional mistakes, but if you clearly aren’t trying (*cough*NWO*cough*) then it just makes you look like an idiot. 🙂
By the way, when did this become just about cooking and cleaning? I thought we talking about stay-at-home parenting. Lot more effort than just basic home maintenance, yet suddenly it’s not factoring into what NWO is ranting about.
He may not be properly transphobic, but he’s still vile.
NWO, your hate isn’t very Christian.
Here’s how backward the world is. Send Ami to a shrink and the shink’ll say he’s right and everyone else in the world is wrong. Is that not insanity. In a normal world the shrink would try to actually help. But no, the world is wrong. Insanity.
Actually that’s not what happened. xD
The psychiatrists were really awful actually. I got hormones on my own. I have never had a diagnosis of GID from a psychiatrist.
Oh wow, NWO, the one thing you’re willing to improve on demand is your transphobia. Wouldn’t want anyone to think you were letting that fall by the wayside!
God, you’re the opposite of everything a human being should be.
For a guy who’s ignoring me, he seems to be acknowledging that I’m on this thread xD
Since I’m such an egalitarian. I’ll cook and clean for any woman here. I’ll even give sex on demand and be happy about it. I’ll always be cheerful. All it’ll take is 60K a year. Hell, I’ll even memorize feminist doctrine and sing in verse for ya. Any takers?
No, honey pumpkin. Here’s the offer. You move into my house and cook, clean, and babysit for me. In return, I will provide a roof over your head and give you an allowance to buy food and, if you beg prettily, clothing. If you do well, you may even get presents! But that house had better be sparkling and those kids had better greet me charmingly at the door.
Because I’m so generous, you don’t even have to have sex with me or do home repairs. Just the cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, laundry, gardening, and childcare will be fine, my precious pudding. Oh, but the feminist singing sounds nice. I have “Free to Be You and Me” on vinyl and you can sing along with that.
Isn’t that a great deal, baby princeling? You said yourself that paid work is awful, staying at home all day is wonderful, and children are a ceaseless joy. You would be a hypocrite of the highest order not to take me up on it.
Contact me on Facebook (same screen name) and we’ll work out the details, duckling.
So the question is… what is NWO going to get angry at? xD That I went around the system (*gasp* the state!) and transitioned on my own, or that the system doesn’t work the way he just claimed it did?
@Lauralot and he complains about MY writing
@Quackers
Total time it takes me a week to cook and clean and do the laundry. 10 hours. If there were 2 people it might take 12. I mean the only extra would be an extra or two of laundry and a few more dishes.
So what your really doing since you’d have to clean up after your self anyway is add about 20% more labor to that time. Right? I still need to eat, clean, laundry.
but you’re paying her with sex! and shelter! doesn’t that count?! sex and shelter totally equals freedom doesn’t it? DOESN’T IT??!?
I know his argument. I’d like to see him try it on black people. “Well, you slaves were sheltered in exchange for the work you did, doesn’t that count?”