Over on Reddit, DoktorTeufel has a problem: he likes the ladies, but he doesn’t like the feminists. Unfortunately, some ladies are also feminists! And therein lies the danger. Naturally, he turns to the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit for help.
I’m just going to come out and say it: I will never knowingly enter into a romantic relationship with a feminist. I do have some female relatives and acquaintances who are feminists … and it’s not like they all wear signs that proclaim I’M A FEMINIST. (Some do.)
Aside from obvious telltales (feminist bumper stickers, etc.) or outright asking them “Are you a feminist?”, what are some discreet ways to ferret out a woman’s views on gender activism without creating an awkward situation? Feminism is a minefield topic, and I certainly wouldn’t broach the subject directly with a woman I’ve just started dating.
Naturally, this being the Men’s Rights subreddit, he received much helpful advice. Celda broke it down for him:
You don’t really care whether she identifies as a feminist or not – you care what her views are.
For instance, does she feel women have the right to force men into parental obligations against their will?
Does she feel women are oppressed in Western society?
Does she think that women make less money than men for the same work?
If yes to these questions or similar, then you probably want to avoid her.
Exactly. Always avoid those with a basic grasp on reality. They’re the worst!
Naive1000 suggested looking for more subtle clues.
Ask their thoughts on “benevolent sexism” if they know what your talking about you likely have a feminist. Just to make sure go into male privilege, it’s the feminists’ most popular talking point. Let her talk about it then you can see what she’s really like. But, there are some women who call themselves feminists, but are really egalitarian: they just don’t know the term.
Memymineown also suggests a subtle approach, and holds out hope that some of the younger feminist girls can be won back to the path of righteousness:
Bring Men’s Rights issues into the conversation subtly. I was talking with my family about Justin Beiber and brought up the paternity charge and no rape charges filed against the woman.
That led into a discussion about how women aren’t punished for rape.
Just do things like that.
But you shouldn’t exclude all feminists. I would say that the vast majority are just girls(I do use that word on purpose) who have been lied to. Once you show them the real facts they will probably come around.
ThePigman, by contrast, urges DoktorTeufel to go for the jugular:
Why do you need to be discrete about it? Just ask her. If she is a member of the cult she will start screaming about the patriarchy, then her head will explode.
It’s true. Pretty much every conversation involving feminists quickly devolves into screaming about patriarchy. Heck, a feminist friend and I once screamed about patriarchy for five hours straight. We probably could have gone longer, but the manager at Applebee’s, evidently not a feminist, threw us out. Sometimes I start screaming about patriarchy when no one else is around, just to keep in practice.
Conversations with feminists pretty much all go like the conversation in the video below, only instead of a cat you need to picture a feminist, and instead of the word “no,” the word “patriarchy.” You can see how annoying that might get, and not just to Hitler.
Once again, NWOslave is too cowardly to actually answer the key problem with his ideology. He won’t answer because there is no answer.
@Holly Pervocracy
“activating her uterus”
Shades of the victim woman as an incubator to the oppressive abusive men.
WOOT!! Shadow takes his first successful steps into HTML!!!
No, it’s a joke about how they don’t turn off, and unless you’re seriously advocating that women never have intercourse until they’ve saved up 100K (if so, I’d love to hear you spell that out, just for our communal amusement), accidental pregnancies will happen.
How do you propose we deal with them?
Shadow
I’ve settled on the current one now. The nuclear explosion was probably a bit extreme. The laser control panel closeup was too obscure. A picture of the laser, with Zapp in the background works nicely.
The fact that my father was a better parent doesn’t mean my mom contributed less. Her contribution may have been tinged with asshole, but it cost her just the same. I benefit from her investments in me even though she was abusive.
Life is complicated like that.
And childcare=work.
I’ll say it again, in just personal federal income tax, 1 trillion a year.
That is just the “personal income tax” Much more from corporate taxes.
One trillion dollars being spent on social services equals 20 million jobs at 50K a year. No one would be un, or underemployed.
Socialism doesn’t work.
Want an extra 10K a year, Holly? Want all the unemployment problems fixed? Want all the welfare problems fixed? Want poverty fixed? Want money for “mothers” to have maternity leave?
All ya gotta do is get rid of all social services and all maternity leave in corporations and it’ll be yours.
Scare quotes around the world “mother”, NWOslave?
WHAT IF A POOR WOMAN GETS PREGNANT
WHAT SHOULD WE DO THEN
ha ha this is so unlike how numbers work it’s hilarious
Because once you get rid of all those things, children will magically stop costing money to raise. Seriously, that’s the only way that plan makes any sense.
@Holly Pervocracy
Nothing in homelife is included in paying work.
No one pays me to cook or clean.
That’s bullshit. Everyone, reguardless of having children or not works at home. Childcare is seperate. It doesn’t count. Cooking doesn’t count. Cleaning doesn’t count. Repairs don’t count.
Got it? I don’t care and no one should care that anything anyone does at home isn’t paid for. You don’t get paid for work at home.
Lets make this clear once anf for all. Nobody “wants” to work.
Home>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Work.
Even ignoring all the other reasons this is silly – why does Donald Trump still have a job? Why did Steve Jobs still have a job and not retire until he was actually at death’s door? Why do Hollywood actors still take acting jobs after the first movie they make a few million dollars off? Why do most of the members of the US Congress still have jobs? It definitely isn’t because they have to work to make “a living.”
You may hate your job. That doesn’t mean everyone hates theirs just as much. And it definitely doesn’t mean staying at home is all sunshine and lollipops.
NWO, you still seem to be operating under the basic fallacy that all money collected in taxes (or paid in maternity leave) evaporates forever.
That’s not how it works. That money still gets spent. A lot of tax money gets spent in ways that don’t benefit most people (particularly on huge defense projects and corporate welfare), so I’m not blithely pro-tax, but even then, it’s not because I think taxes = magic disappearing money.
@Holly Pervocracy
How can she be poor if there are 20 million jobs and not enough people to fill them? Extra jobs also means higher pay.
Also, seriously, dude, what happens when a non-rich woman gets pregnant?
@hyperdeath
Fair enough. A man can dream though.. a man can dream. 😀
I’ve to head out to a party now so I’m out, I wish you all the best of luck in getting a straight answer out of NWO.
Abortion NWO. Your feelings on it? How do you propose people make sure that there are no pregnancies that they can’t afford?
You get the reward of food and a clean home. But if you were doing it for someone else–if you were working as a personal chef or a housekeeper, damn skippy you’d want pay.
@Polliwog
That’s right. They don’t have to work. It’s nothing but a hobby to them. A fun thing to do.
I’d just like to mention that I’d love to be working right now. Being unemployed sucks.
Further NWO, I’m actually really saddened that you don’t enjoy what you do, and that you don’t know anyone who actually finds their job fulfilling.
@Holly Pervocracy
Do tell? How much should the vicitm woman be paid to cook and clean? Would she have to cook and clean if she was alone?
C’mon, lets hear the price women demand to cook and clean?
What about the transitional period? After we’ve abolished roads and contract enforcement but before all those jobs have materialized. (Did I go over how tax money is not set on fire? That’s important to why there wouldn’t actually be 20 million jobs out of nowhere. Especially not 20 million good jobs.)
Before those jobs exist, what would you do with a pregnant poor woman? Tell her “sorry, the only way you can be rich is if you starve to death?”
@Holly Pervocracy
What’s the price to cook and clean? I’d like to know? Let’s throw in childcare as well?
What is the price tag to cook, clean and childcare?
@Holly Pervocracy
Federal taxes don’t pay for roads.
What’s the price to cook, clean and childcare?
Kyrie “zhinxy, apart from NWO crazy talk, I really don’t get the basics of libertarianism. If you don’t mind, for example, what would be your response to the problem of pregnancy in the workplace? How would it work in your libertarian utopia?”
(if you do mind I understand completely)
…
Kyrie – I started writing an answer for you, and for extra fun I’d had a couple drinks, and it’s getting really, really involved and taking me a while, so do you mind if I make it a forum answer or blog post? Making Work and Family Harmonious is probably my biggest personal libertarian/anarchist/feminist/radical/utopian drum to beat. i’ve got this thing about trying to blend the often hollow and conservative notion of the family as the building block of society with individual rights and the dismantling of patriarchy and a broad notion of family and *hic* all that. IN A FREE MARKET!
(There’s actually a thread on the forums dedicated to talkin’ bout lefty libertarianism with me, which I let fall into disuse, but am gonna start seriously spamming soon. Probably with this and some copyright stuff.)
I’ll leave you with what I got, which is either a damn fucking good start, or utterly insane ramblings. I can’t quite tell, I’m a little drunk. –
As always, apparently, when I get a good question from a non-troll, I dont really have much time to respond. I’ll just say that the short answer, or long answer starts with the crucial question –
Why is it a problem? Why is there, for so many of us as a matter of absolute necessity, “A Workplace” that sees pregnancy as an unnatural thing, and why the split between “work” and “home” and “family” and “career”. Something went wrong here. We’re being asked to cut ourselves down to fit into pre-made slots, and not very human shaped ones, certainly not very woman-shaped ones.
(But of course! work is for men! Home is for women! – OH? Since when, and why? )
People have always worked for themselves and their families. People have always worked as families. The children forced into the dark satanic mills along with their parents would have been learning their parent’s trades at their sides. Work is done, productive, heavy, work, all over the world, and always has been, with a baby happily dozing in the many baby-carrying slings humans have devised for them.
It is only when we are expected to work for others, on their terms, our children become this problem to be solved.
Quick question, even for a non-utopian world –
A baby can be nursed in the fields, a baby can sleep while his mother threshes wheat, or carries her goods to the market, in a way we still admit in our modern view that a baby can sleep by it’s mother’s feet while she hands out change at a family store, but in no way, no HOW, can a baby be allowed into even the cushiest and safest and most casual! fun! just like a family! of modern offices, without hell breaking loose, decisions to be made about career! and! family!
Why does the picture of a business woman or man rocking a baby at a desk while skimming through paperwork, even with no others about to be disturbed by all that obviously unbearable crying and shitting they do, seem so very INSANE to us? Why have we decided our children are only part of a very limited sphere, and certainly not the sphere of serious people doing serious things?
What the hell kind of workplace did we make here, even assuming “we” made it?
…
End zhinxy drunk rambling utopia-building preamble. This is what happens when you give me booze.