Over on Reddit, DoktorTeufel has a problem: he likes the ladies, but he doesn’t like the feminists. Unfortunately, some ladies are also feminists! And therein lies the danger. Naturally, he turns to the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit for help.
I’m just going to come out and say it: I will never knowingly enter into a romantic relationship with a feminist. I do have some female relatives and acquaintances who are feminists … and it’s not like they all wear signs that proclaim I’M A FEMINIST. (Some do.)
Aside from obvious telltales (feminist bumper stickers, etc.) or outright asking them “Are you a feminist?”, what are some discreet ways to ferret out a woman’s views on gender activism without creating an awkward situation? Feminism is a minefield topic, and I certainly wouldn’t broach the subject directly with a woman I’ve just started dating.
Naturally, this being the Men’s Rights subreddit, he received much helpful advice. Celda broke it down for him:
You don’t really care whether she identifies as a feminist or not – you care what her views are.
For instance, does she feel women have the right to force men into parental obligations against their will?
Does she feel women are oppressed in Western society?
Does she think that women make less money than men for the same work?
If yes to these questions or similar, then you probably want to avoid her.
Exactly. Always avoid those with a basic grasp on reality. They’re the worst!
Naive1000 suggested looking for more subtle clues.
Ask their thoughts on “benevolent sexism” if they know what your talking about you likely have a feminist. Just to make sure go into male privilege, it’s the feminists’ most popular talking point. Let her talk about it then you can see what she’s really like. But, there are some women who call themselves feminists, but are really egalitarian: they just don’t know the term.
Memymineown also suggests a subtle approach, and holds out hope that some of the younger feminist girls can be won back to the path of righteousness:
Bring Men’s Rights issues into the conversation subtly. I was talking with my family about Justin Beiber and brought up the paternity charge and no rape charges filed against the woman.
That led into a discussion about how women aren’t punished for rape.
Just do things like that.
But you shouldn’t exclude all feminists. I would say that the vast majority are just girls(I do use that word on purpose) who have been lied to. Once you show them the real facts they will probably come around.
ThePigman, by contrast, urges DoktorTeufel to go for the jugular:
Why do you need to be discrete about it? Just ask her. If she is a member of the cult she will start screaming about the patriarchy, then her head will explode.
It’s true. Pretty much every conversation involving feminists quickly devolves into screaming about patriarchy. Heck, a feminist friend and I once screamed about patriarchy for five hours straight. We probably could have gone longer, but the manager at Applebee’s, evidently not a feminist, threw us out. Sometimes I start screaming about patriarchy when no one else is around, just to keep in practice.
Conversations with feminists pretty much all go like the conversation in the video below, only instead of a cat you need to picture a feminist, and instead of the word “no,” the word “patriarchy.” You can see how annoying that might get, and not just to Hitler.
@zhinxy
Yes, I answered. You never need ask again. Go read it and then you can shut up about it.
….
No, you really didn’t. You dodged the actual questions, though props to you for saying something about what you believe. My “response” to your non-response is there in the thread. Me and Ami are still waiting.
NWO:
I think you were asking for this: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat2.pdf
It’s the Employment status of the civilian noninstitutional population 16 years and over by sex, 1973 to date. They say that in 2010 63.7% of men were employed and 53.6% of women were employed. There were slightly more men in their population than women, and there might be other assumptions in the data which aren’t immediately apparent, but overall that doesn’t leave a lot of space for stay at home moms, maybe 1 woman in 10.
Not quite a gold rush, that.
http://manboobz.com/2012/01/03/manosphere-dudes-lets-set-up-fake-feminist-blogs-to-take-down-feminism/comment-page-16/#comment-107943
For clarity, here’s me (and Ami) after “you answered”. Our questions remain.
XD XD XD
That’s still kind of double-billing, too, because you can’t say the company shouldn’t be paying the temp or the woman. They still want the position filled.
So let’s consider only the temp’s pay as a real loss, and now we’re down to (30K * 4) + 60K for each company of 100, or $180K.
So now we’re “costing” the economy only $18 billion.
And that’s just using the numbers that NWO made up out of nowhere anyway. What kind of company is this where all the women are making 80K, seriously, and are they hiring?
And yet despite the huge amount of time I’ve spent here, everyone is perpetually hostile.
Not “despite.” “Because of.”
MRAL, try for one minute to put yourself in our shoes. Imagine there’s a woman you know who perpetually screams about how all men are entitled FUCK pricks, how all men get everything they want, how all men are shallow and stupid and mean and horrible and it just MAKES HER SO ANGRY SHE HAS TO SCREAM ABOUT IT FUCK FUCK FUCK.
You probably wouldn’t like her very much, right?
Now imagine that, after months of this, she says, “Actually, I was just trying to annoy you and get attention with a lot of that. I still think a lot of guys are entitled pricks, though! And that all men get everything they want! And that men should stop complaining because their complaints are bullshit!”
You probably still wouldn’t like her very much, right?
If you want to stay here and have people be nice to you, there is exactly one way you can do it: you can genuinely apologize for all the crap you’ve spouted, including in this thread, and then you can never spout any more. You can consistently be polite, reasonable, never call anyone bitches, never make stupid claims about how women have everything, and so forth. If you do that, and you keep it up for a good long time, then people might be inclined to be nice to you. (Even then, some people may decide that they haven’t yet forgiven you for months and months of bad behavior, and that’s absolutely their prerogative, in the same way it would be your prerogative to write off our hypothetical “ALPHA FUCK PRICKS” woman above.)
If you honestly think you can do that, then you can certainly try – but if you don’t, then staying here, continuing to rant about bitches, and expecting people to tolerate it is one hell of a losing plan.
. “What kind of company is this where all the women are making 80K, seriously, and are they hiring?”
….
They don’t hire, they wait for a man to apply who’s qualified, and then they go and find a random unqualified woman, and give her his job.
A parting note, to MRAL:
If you really thought this blog had value, you ought not to have spent so much time shitting all over it. You’ve burned your fucking bridges, dude. Live with it.
Your utter lack of self-awareness is stunning.
@Holly Pervocracy
the numbers I gave are pretty accurate, if you can do better I’d like to see it.
$80.00 per month is a reasonable estimate x 12 months = $960.00 per person.
If a woman gets 40K a year and take off 6 months that’s 20K x 4 women = 80K. Their wages are paid for by the other employees.
The temps will be hired at 3/4s the amount of the women who worked regularly = 60K
The human resource dept person needed to handle all the paperwork, temp hiring, insurances and such at 40K a year.
This is a transfer of wealth from people at the bottom to people at the top.
Please show me my error? Give me your cost anaysis?
Seriously, Holly. I want your cost analysis, incuding all costs. temps. wages paid to women on maternity leave. Personel who process information and hiring. Insurances and so forth. Tell me what you estimate the cost at, and who ultimately profits?
Dracula “If you really thought this blog had value, you ought not to have spent so much time shitting all over it. You’ve burned your fucking bridges, dude. Live with it.”
…
And the bridges that were built out to him, even though he was swiinging a torch and lighting his many, fecund farts, were things of real substance, marvels of engineering, testament to the real kindness of their oh, so hostile builders.
“This is a transfer of wealth from people at the bottom to people at the top.”
The people at the top being the pregnant women? 😛
This is a transfer of wealth from people at the bottom to people at the top.
…
That’s the whole fucking state-corporate wage labor system, and getting us to think that small, human mercies our masters give us, like a little time off to do a LITTLE to bear and raise our babies, is REALLY what’s stealing our hard earned money and making things hard!
You really, truly are, the fucking World Divide And Conquer Champion, aren’t you?
… Answer me and AMI XD XD XD XD XD
zhinxy-
That’s the fuck of it, right there. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when he said he wanted to change, and I know I’m not alone there. I was met with serious disappointment.
I’m not sure why the HR person is being counted as a sudden cost. Like, are HR people ONLY for parental leave?
And yet despite the huge amount of time I’ve spent here, everyone is perpetually hostile.
*collapses in helpless laughter, esp. at the followup about it just being trolling.*
OK, official petition to David:
David, please, please, please deal with MRAL the way you dealt with Brandon.
Who’s with me, comrades?
Honestly, I don’t give a shit what David does with MRAL at this point.
@zhinxy
How many times can I answer the same question? I’ve done it already. So if you ask the same question over and over again the answer is I’ve answered it already.
ithiliana – YES!
@zhinxy
How many times can I answer the same question? I’ve done it already. So if you ask the same question over and over again the answer is I’ve answered it already.”
EXCEPT. YOU. DIDN’T.
Click the link. We explain you didn’t. We’re still waiting.
MRAL
My husband spoke about you to me a couple of times before I took over this account. He felt sorry for you and is more generous then I am. I see nothing more then a pity party which imho woman in general are much more forgiving of then men.
Myself I see a whining little boy where it is high-time to act like a man. At some point for any young adult there comes a time to say you are responsible for your own choices. I think this is the point for you. Good luck
oops, clearly should have read through the whole thread first…..ah, well, c’est la vie!
@zhinxy
Personally, I’m starting to think you’re some idiotic shill.
They don’t get to feel self-righteous. They don’t get to feel like victims. They already have everything, they don’t need MORE.
Wait, are we still talking about your coworkers at Starbucks? What do they have? What is everything?
I’m out for a while. I’ll be back. When Ami gets here, she’ll be happy to hear your answer!
XD
XD XD XD XD XD XD XD
I think MRAL could easily pass the Brandon challenge. Even in full-troll mode, he could rant about tall women spitting on short, ugly, beta men without using I or me.