Over on Reddit, DoktorTeufel has a problem: he likes the ladies, but he doesn’t like the feminists. Unfortunately, some ladies are also feminists! And therein lies the danger. Naturally, he turns to the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit for help.
I’m just going to come out and say it: I will never knowingly enter into a romantic relationship with a feminist. I do have some female relatives and acquaintances who are feminists … and it’s not like they all wear signs that proclaim I’M A FEMINIST. (Some do.)
Aside from obvious telltales (feminist bumper stickers, etc.) or outright asking them “Are you a feminist?”, what are some discreet ways to ferret out a woman’s views on gender activism without creating an awkward situation? Feminism is a minefield topic, and I certainly wouldn’t broach the subject directly with a woman I’ve just started dating.
Naturally, this being the Men’s Rights subreddit, he received much helpful advice. Celda broke it down for him:
You don’t really care whether she identifies as a feminist or not – you care what her views are.
For instance, does she feel women have the right to force men into parental obligations against their will?
Does she feel women are oppressed in Western society?
Does she think that women make less money than men for the same work?
If yes to these questions or similar, then you probably want to avoid her.
Exactly. Always avoid those with a basic grasp on reality. They’re the worst!
Naive1000 suggested looking for more subtle clues.
Ask their thoughts on “benevolent sexism” if they know what your talking about you likely have a feminist. Just to make sure go into male privilege, it’s the feminists’ most popular talking point. Let her talk about it then you can see what she’s really like. But, there are some women who call themselves feminists, but are really egalitarian: they just don’t know the term.
Memymineown also suggests a subtle approach, and holds out hope that some of the younger feminist girls can be won back to the path of righteousness:
Bring Men’s Rights issues into the conversation subtly. I was talking with my family about Justin Beiber and brought up the paternity charge and no rape charges filed against the woman.
That led into a discussion about how women aren’t punished for rape.
Just do things like that.
But you shouldn’t exclude all feminists. I would say that the vast majority are just girls(I do use that word on purpose) who have been lied to. Once you show them the real facts they will probably come around.
ThePigman, by contrast, urges DoktorTeufel to go for the jugular:
Why do you need to be discrete about it? Just ask her. If she is a member of the cult she will start screaming about the patriarchy, then her head will explode.
It’s true. Pretty much every conversation involving feminists quickly devolves into screaming about patriarchy. Heck, a feminist friend and I once screamed about patriarchy for five hours straight. We probably could have gone longer, but the manager at Applebee’s, evidently not a feminist, threw us out. Sometimes I start screaming about patriarchy when no one else is around, just to keep in practice.
Conversations with feminists pretty much all go like the conversation in the video below, only instead of a cat you need to picture a feminist, and instead of the word “no,” the word “patriarchy.” You can see how annoying that might get, and not just to Hitler.
I want to read the comic that pic came from. I need to know what erotic acts of erotica could melt my icy feminist armor.
One time my head exploded, and everyone around me got really embarrassed while I put it back together. But I was wearing my “I’m a Feminist” sign, so they weren’t confused about why it happened.
Those guys sound as good as Brandon at “smoking out the feminists, their sympathisers”.
Perhaps they could go into business… Brandon can run the IT, and they could do webinars.
MeMyMineOwn on how to spot a feminist? Brandon?
Basically, the good Doktor is saying that he is too lazy to get to know a woman before asking her out on a date.
I have an idea for Herr Doktor. He should organize a women’s rights march or some other event in his town. Get some good speakers that would attract feminists to see them. Then, during the time of the event, he could ask any woman out he pleased who was not at the event since he would know that all the feminists would be at that event plotting all the awful terrible things they want to do to him, his wallet, his freedom and the rest of the patriarchy… PATRIARCHY!
On a serious side not, I have also wondered aoubt the Beiber question. If she admitted to having sex with him in violation of age of consent laws, she just admitted to a crime is not getting arrested for it.
Too bad Brandon’s on moderation, he could share his tips and tricks for “smoking out” the feminists in his midst.
I’ve been friends with this one guy for a good year. When I outright said I was a feminist he was shocked — SHOCKED — that that was the case. Why was he shocked? Because I was a cool, fun person to be around who didn’t scream about the patriarchy or how men suck all the time.
I shit you not.
Anyway, what this guy is REALLY looking for is a woman who is easy to control. He knows that feminists are unlikely to put up with that kind of bullshit, but they’re far from the only women who wont.
He already did.
step 1: ask a bunch of question related to feminism
step 2: then ask her if she’s a feminist
step 3: gloat about it on a feminist forum while using the first person at least two times a sentence.
Magic!
This is exactly why I’m glad they replace your sense of empathy and natural femininity with badass cybernetic parts once you take the Oaths of Feminism. I can’t tell you how often I’ve had to regrow my head after this kind of conversation, and without my cold metal insides, it would be impossible!
I have an idea for Herr Doktor. He should organize a women’s rights march or some other event in his town. Get some good speakers that would attract feminists to see them. Then, during the time of the event, he could ask any woman out he pleased who was not at the event since he would know that all the feminists would be at that event plotting all the awful terrible things they want to do to him, his wallet, his freedom and the rest of the patriarchy… PATRIARCHY!
It would be dangerous to assemble that many warriors of the hive in one place. All it takes is one feminist screaming PATRIARCHY and it’d be curtains.
http://youtu.be/GEStsLJZhzo
I think we need to iron out this wage gap thing. It’s basically a myth. It’s true that women on the whole earn less than men, but I hardly need to get into how fucking problematic that is. I am not making any more money than my women coworkers at Starbucks, or washing dishes at Dominos. This BullShit, dishonest debating, as well as and the BullShit implications, really grate on my last nerve. I make NO more than my female coworkers. Stuff it.
Oh Shora, I get this all the flippin’ time. What really gets me is they then refuse to believe that my feminism is pretty mainstream, because obviously they would know a lot more about what feminism looks like than… the feminist would?
There’s also “but you’re so feminine!” which is annoying because yes, I am, but that doesn’t make my feminism any “milder” or my opinions any more valid than someone much more butch.
I particularly like:
The only reason why a woman would abandon a date with a man who starts lecturing her about rape laws, is that she’s a hysterical man-hating feminist. I can think of no other explanation.
I can’t quite believe no one has posted this Jacky Fleming comic yet:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SxR0SGZwvpY/Sg_9k3ID0XI/AAAAAAAAAKg/XEH7_AGN70o/s320/watch_out.gif
MRAL is back-sliding.
Classes must have started up again.
So the only jobs in America are barista and dishwasher? Got it.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Meanwhile in reality for my “entry level” pay scale for a utility company there is a potential $15,000 wage gap between the bottom and top of the pay scale.
For a job requireing an MBA +10 years experience the potential gap doubles to $34,000
Um, MRAL? The fact that men make more than women *on average* is the whole point of the wage gap thing.
Other components of the wage gap are more subtle. Even if there are just as many women as men doing the crappy jobs, are more men in management positions? Are there more women than men in jobs which are low-paying as a whole? Etc.
MRAL can backslide right on out of here, well, after he explains bullshit’s funky spelling in his whiny tirade.
You can’t look at one tree to claim to see the whole forest. It’s a bit more complicated than comparing the wages of two Dominos workers.
Ooh, I’ve been out of town, why is Brandon on Mod??
How am I backsliding? I just have a problem with the wage gap as presented, because as presented it’s a myth. Certainly in lower level jobs (you know, over 50% of the population) the pay is usually automated. If women work less, they will be paid less. If they don’t work, they will not be paid. Shocker. On the other hand, if they put in the average man’s hours, they will receive that recognition.
I think there is a discussion to be had re. WHY women choose lower-paying jobs, or choose to work less, or not at all, and that is an area where real sexism may lie. But by going for the sensationalist and false and easily refutable “WOMEN ALWAYS MAKE LESS FOR THE SAME WORK”, you’re just spinning your wheels. Everyone knows that’s shit.
I think we all know the damning study- among young childless people, women’s wages are about 97-98% of men’s. That’s all I need to hear, because that’s the age when women will, presumably, on the whole, be working as much as men. Same money for same effort. Roll widdit.
After derailing a thread for the umpteenth time with endless “me me me” posts, David put him on moderation and set him ‘The Brandon Challenge’, which required him to post exclusively about subjects other than himself before his posts would be allowed through.
Thanks to a mix-up (i.e. him spotting that he was on moderation but failing to spot The Brandon Challenge), his first post contained no fewer than 35 references to himself, for which he was widely mocked. So he essentially said “Screw you, Futrelle, I’m outta here”, and hasn’t been seen since.
Which is why Manboobz is full of drifting tumbleweed right now – surely you must have noticed that?
I do not know of anyone who has stated that women ALWAYS make less than men for the same work. There are some occupations where women make more than men for the same work. However, there are MORE occupations where men make more than women for the same work.
If one is to have an honest debate on wage gap issues, one has to acknowledge that some of the overall pay gap between men and women is because of past sexism. Women being told for years that their job was to be the homemaker while men climbed the corporate ladder causes a situation today where many men are at the top of that corporate ladder while women are just starting to climb because the past sexist society gave the men an unfair start.
I find it best to discuss starting wages and the gap between genders. And women are discriminated much more than men are.
For example, female doctors made $16,000 less than men to start. They do the same work and do not get the same pay. http://healthland.time.com/2011/02/04/gender-gap-in-doctors-starting-salaries-17000/ (Only in general surgery did women make more, every other field they made less)
Back in the day, I had a date and the guy mentioned how he couldn’t stand “feminazis”. There was no second date. It still wasn’t as bad as a date I had with a guy who was obsessed with Nostradamus. Anyway, those MRA’s are doing a huge favor to any feminists they weed out on dates. Obviously, they would be incompatible.
For a few months I worked at a classy restaurent. Women all started as hostesses, with a low hourly rate and a tiny percentage of the tip pool. Men started as bussers, with a slightly higher hourly rate and percentage of the tip pool. Men ALWAYS started with more money AND a higher position (which means they could make more money faster) than women.
Now, it’s not all like this, and the hospitality industry is pretty horrendously sexist as a whole, but you can’t go around spouting off that the wage gap is a myth without considering other experiences and facts.
Women are still pressured by society to sacrifice their careers for their children or risk being labeled “bad mothers.” Women are often forced to choose between a high-paying career and a family while men are not, so yea, that’s where the wage gap starts.
The idea that women just choose to stay home because it’s easier so they can laze about and eat bonbons is a myth. Child rearing is a lot of fuckin work and you don’t get paid for it at all. Less money, more effort. Roll widdit.