Today, a GUEST POST from Catherine! Thanks, Catherine! And the rest of you, enjoy!
Over on Chateau Heartiste, the (He)artist(e) Formerly Known As Roissy devoted a recent post to the conundrum of handsome men coupled with ugly women. It’s essentially an open thread for the denigration of women who don’t live up to Roissy’s porntastic standards (17 to 20 years old with a BMI of about 18 *and* a D cup, and related WTF?! attributes), as well as ragging on those awful beta manginas who are punching below their weight – or, to quote Heartiste himself, are “polluting the gene pool with pigwoman blood.”
I was participating in a mobile conference which included question and answer periods, and I noticed an odd couple standing to my side. He was youngish and good-looking — most women would agree on his physical attractiveness — and his wife was a snout-nosed, inbred-looking, stringy-haired, big fat pig dressed in sweatshirt and ill-fitting jeans. In other words, the typical American woman. I assumed they were married because I saw their rings and she had her hand on a stroller with an infant tucked away in it.
He’s just getting started.
What abomination is this! I thought. But then the reason became crystal clear after only a few moments watching and listening to them interact.
Speaker: Any questions?
Big Fat Pig: [nudging her hubby with her elbow] Honey, remember…
Handsome Husbandry: [tentatively raising his index and middle finger, and haltingly talking] I have a question… I have a…
So obviously the young good-looking man is totally under the thumb of the big fat evil feminist woman, who has sucked out his brains and reduced him to a quivering lump of hesitation and uncertainty!
As he asked his question, he kept looking over at his wife — in fact, staring at his wife more than the speaker, although he was ostensibly addressing the speaker. One would be forgiven for having the impression that he was seeking constant real-time assurance from his wife that his question was acceptable for public discourse. Nervously shifting from one foot to the other, leaning into his wife, gazing downward when the speaker responded to him, his body language was so beta it was painful to watch. No, it was repulsive to behold, almost as repulsive as the visual effrontery of his wife’s blubbery carcass.
So, sniveling, indecisive beta manginas are repulsive… but not as repulsive as a corpulent woman! Gotcha, Roissy.
After getting in a few more digs at the contemptuous, unsympathetic wife, Roissy sets forth his views on various types of couples. First, the kinds of couples that should be allowed to exist:
Handsome man with beautiful woman
All is right in the world. You infer the man has alpha characteristics to complement his good looks, and he has cashed that in for a hot babe. …
Ugly man with ugly woman
All is right, if depressing, in the world. You infer the ugly man has beta or even omega characteristics, and that an ugly woman was the best he could do. You assume the ugly woman resents him for having to settle, but knows she has no other options. Love between them is less about passion than it is about task delegation and avoidance of suicidal loneliness.
All is well in the world of alpha males with hot babes, but those in ugly people combos need to find some highly diverting hobbies to keep from offing themselves.
Now Roissy turns his attention to two apparent mismatches, and delineates his usual double standards:
Ugly man with beautiful woman
Wow, he is shooting out of his league! But then, thinking on it a bit, you recall that you saw quite a few couples like this mismatched pair during the week. It’s less rare than popularly imagined. You may ask yourself “What does she see in him?”, and from that you infer the ugly man has compensating alpha attributes to snag such a hottie — maybe he’s wealthy, or slick, or funny, or a dominating asshole, or some combination of each. You assume this ugly man has options to be able to choose a beauty for a girlfriend.
Moral: ugly men are permitted to have counter-balancing attributes! Can you guess what is coming next?
Handsome man with ugly woman
Whoa, what is he thinking?! An uncommon sight, (occurrence less frequent than its polar opposite), you presume the handsome man has some debilitating personality flaw — maybe social awkwardness, or shyness, or micropenis — that prevents him from fornicating with his true potential. Unlike the mirror image couple of the ugly man with the beautiful woman, you do not give the ugly woman the benefit of the doubt in assessing why she was able to catch a handsome man. You simply conclude, reasonably, that the handsome man is not the alpha male on the inside that he looks like on the outside, and therefore the ugly woman is not really dating out of her league. There must be something wrong with him, you think.
Women have no value beyond their looks, so the pitiful man dating someone wretchedly below Roissy’s artificial standards must likewise be sub-standard, in some way invisible to us, to have abased himself so humiliatingly.
Having drawn these pictures, Roissy rounds out the post with a sermon on female ugliness, which is to be universally shunned:
There is an instinctive, deeply primitive understanding chugging away behind the prefrontal cortex in every one of us that women sexually respond to a suite of male attractiveness traits, of which looks are only one desirable male quality. It is therefore not inconceivable to most non-brainwashed observers that an ugly man might have other characteristics that appeal to a beautiful woman on his arms, or that a handsome man might be crippled with weakness and self-doubt that constrains his ability to attract no better than a big fat pigwoman.
And we’re back to the disparaging references to pigs. Why, oh why does Roissy hate pork so? (That he detests women is more or less expected.)
In the mismatched couple I witnessed, it was clear that whatever good will or tokens of desire that the handsome man had inspired in his pigwoman were completely squandered by his beta behavior. It was easy to see by her loathsome demeanor that his looks no longer held — if they ever did beyond the first couple of dates — any sway over her feelings for him. But being the big fat pigwoman she is, she knew she could not do better.
And that is why the generational increase in human beauty is a slow, painstaking process, punctuated by tragic reversals to a sloping brow norm (see: Appalachia, Detroit). Handsome betas are polluting the gene pool with pigwoman blood.
What the hell was that? I’ll quote it again: “Handsome betas are polluting the gene pool with pigwoman blood.” Oh, the huge manatee! Shrink in terror from the impending doom to be brought about by porcine-human hybrids!
Naturally such hyperbole is a cue for some predictable misogyny in the comments, such as the following from regular tool Tyrone:
That’s why its good to be older to get a good sense for how a woman will age. There are loads of women who look hot when young but turn into cattle as they age. Mom is usually a good bench mark. If you’d do her Mom, you’re probably safe. Check out how Ginger Lynn looks like nowadays. You’d never recognize her from her porn days.
A view right in line with Roissy’s famed dating value regimen that women lose value once they’re older than, say, 29; and Tyrone follows it up with some white supremacism:
White people won’t survive without more kids. Smart white men need to breed more in our country- with white women.
What, you might ask, about women with great bodies but unappealing faces? One Anonymous coward urges his brethren to go for it :
[O]ne of my biggest regrets was not doing a girl who had the hottest body around but an ugly face. Temporarily of course.
But for fuck’s sake don’t marry them. Right, tenderman100?
Some years ago, before I was married for the first time (twice married, twice divorced) I was banging this babe. Amazing body. Amazing tits. But a kind of a bucktoothed face. When I first met her, I thought, wow what amazing tits…yeah she’s kinda ugly but she’s friendly and I just have to see those tat tas. Well, not only did I see them, we banged for a few months. She was incredible in bed, highly orgasmic, very flexible (did ballet). Haven’t seen her in decades, but if she is a fat cow, I wouldn’t be surprised. Yeah, she was ugly but she pounded like a pro. So it isn’t always what it seems. Then again, I would never have married her.
If not marriage, then what about a long-term relationship? Over again to Tyrone:
A good woman who has reparable shortcomings is still a good option for an LTR. Fugly is a whole different animal.
But if you marry one of them, Tyrone adds, make sure you have a contingency plan!
My wife knows if she ever lets herself go, talks about divorce, whatever that pisses me off enough to leave, I will simply disappear into the night. No arguments or emotions, it will be a complete coup de main. There won’t be anyone around to serve papers to. I’ll be overseas in an undisclosed location screwing LBFMs.
In case you don’t already know, LBFM is short for Little Brown Fucking Machines, a term of art to refer to Asian women (frequently underage) sought out by sex tourists — which should be sufficient to outline Tyrone’s sophisticated moral principles. He continues:
I say this with no emotion or bravado, just let her know its a fact that she must deal with. Marriage is like defense policy, the best defense is a good offense. Strike first, strike to kill. Identify a location and buy yourself some property there, so you have somewhere to go. Move enough money there to live well until you can start a bar or whatever to live. Plan this for a few years in advance if need be. Life is too short to be some stupid broad’s wage slave.
How charming!
Heartiste really has a way of bringing out the best in people!
A man at the senior citizen center asked my late grandma out on a date when she was in her 80’s. He wanted to take her out to get a chicken dinner and she told him “No thanks, I don’t like chicken”. He said, “Okay, we can eat somewhere else” so she said “I don’t like any food”. He got the hint and told her that if she changed her mind, to give him a holler. I thought he was a sweet guy, but she never was interested in dating again after grandpa died. How would Roissy explain an elderly man hitting on an elderly woman anyway?
He’s a beta who knows that he’s not enough of a dominant asshole to snag a young hottie, of course.
I’m cool with this.
Shorter Arks, “I disagree with something a promenant MRA says, therefore he’s a Feminist.”
Shorter Menomemom, “Guys who date people they choose to date are totally gay!”
And this is a bad thing, why? I mean, I’m not poly myself, but I have no problems with it (with enthusiastic consent from all parties, of course).
I still want to hear Roissy’s explanation of how it wouldn’t be a pollution of the gene pool if his “beta” followers were to persuade a beautiful woman to have children with them.
Further on Nikola Tesla:
“But the female mind has demonstrated a capacity for all the mental acquirements and achievements of men, and as generations ensue that capacity will be expanded; the average woman will be as well educated as the average man, and then better educated, for the dormant faculties of her brain will be stimulated to an activity that will be all the more intense and powerful because of centuries of repose. Women will ignore precedent and startle civilization with their progress.”
~Nikola Tesla
JTK
Oh NOES in JTK world if men believed that women were actual individuals teh ebil wymynz would flock to the 1% who treated them like cesspools of STDs!!! Also Bitches ain’t shit!
JTK, weren’t you going your own way?
Are you really expecting a number of women here to suddenly “OMG! JTK is right! All teh menz need to go their own wayz RIGHT NAOW!!!” And even if they did, to what end would that accomplish? Will the posters here go out on the street corner and hector menz into going their own way?
Or are you really just bitter and lonely and this is the only really interaction you get with human beings?
Because if you are REALLY a man going his own way, then go! We won’t mock you. We wouldn’t even know you exist.
(Pro-tip, we’re mocking you right now because you aren’t actually going your own way)
@cynickal
“And even if they did, to what end would that accomplish? Will the posters here go out on the street corner and hector menz into going their own way?”
You may have hit a winning strategy though. What man won’t be going his own way if he has to look forward to turning a corner and being set upon by a bunch of women screaming and pulling at his shirt while chanting “Go Your Own Way!!!”
So, Tesla is a white night (or is it mangina? I get confused) rather a MGIOW! Haha, the genius vampire is one of ours!
Take that, misogynists!
Man, the downside of a having a job with limited Interweb access is that I miss all the fun threads 🙁
JTK, please, no one owes you access to the lubed hole of your choice, and the MGTOW movement seems packed with guys that are whiny about that fact and just want to whine about packing up their balls and going home…
“I’m going, I’m really going now.”
*crickets*
“I’m seriously going! You’re gonna miss me so much!”
*crickets*
Just..go. Be celibate if it works for you, take a break from dating if it works for you, just knock off the persecution complex and corny movie references. It’s not making us miss you more.
Also:
‘Ladies, just suppose the great mass of men stopped thinking with their dicks and 99% of them suddenly became sensitive New Age guys eager to commit.”
You’ve obviously have never met a sensitive New Age type that’s in it for the nookie, have you? Would that blow your mind?
@Quackers: Thanks!
So…yeah…if anyone wants to go their own way, what’s stopping them? This guy’s declaration has all the drama of the kid who’s always quitting some message board where he feels everyone has wronged him. He makes his “Goodbye” post. People ask him why he hasn’t left yet, and he keeps posting in his “Goodbye” post, assuring them that after that post, he’s really leaving.
Then, he comes back with a new screen name. People find out he reincarnated himself. He makes another “Goodbye” post. Rinse, repeat. I’ve posted on message boards since the late 1990s, and every.single.one has “That Guy” (or “That Gal”). It’s not about going your own way, or about quitting whatever social sphere to make a statement. It’s about attention. When people do what they really want to, they don’t need everyone’s approval.
Somehow relevant.
What JTK, you’re still here? When are you going to make good on going your own way?
Please stick the flounce this time.
(Obviously he’s a MGHOWYSHAOBLABSAPITSOBS — Men Going His Own Way Yet Still Hovering Around Other Blogs Like A Bad Smell And Posting Inordinately Tedious Slabs Of Bull Shite.)
Do you think he’d actually leave if we offered to throw him a going-away party? He can wear a little party hat with a picture of a vagina with a strike-through on it, like a No Smoking sign.
“and his wife was a snout-nosed, inbred-looking, stringy-haired, big fat pig dressed in sweatshirt and ill-fitting jeans. In other words, the typical American woman. I assumed they were married because I saw their rings and she had her hand on a stroller with an infant tucked away in it.”
My favorite partness of the fact that her looking anything other than slim and put together when she OBVIOUSLY GAVE BIRTH RECENTLY AND IS CARING FOR A BABY is UNNATURAL AND HORRIBLE will always be my favorite partness. Forevers.
Ami and I have often talked about how, in MRA/PUA genetic theory, you seem to inherit qualities ONLY FROM YOUR MOTHER if female, and ONLY FROM YOUR FATHER if male. A girl doesn’t get her father’s drive to succeed, a guy doesn’t get his mom’s quiet, laid back nature, and men don’t look good, or have to, but only women.
So in a way, that’s the best way to understand this shrieking at the heavens. A handsome man and an “ugly” woman can never produce – assuming for a moment that is exactly what we all want and it is right to scream at people for not doing it – women that are beautiful. That is only possible through women passing on their own beauty, not a woman bearing resemblance to a father.
Hence, handsome men and manatees are just producing a net loss of beauty in the world. You can only drag beauty down through beauty plus non-beauty marriage, not raise the beauty level up. But this CAN happen when a non-handsome “alpha” marries a beauty, since it’s a woman’s beauty that gets passed on, and her daughters will never resemble their father.
Or something.
CassandraSays:
This has been my experience as well! I became too old for these guys when I hit about 18. I was also incredibly grateful.
Here’s sample of what I saw around the dinner table at Christmas this year: My stepdad, who married a mother of two (eww, another man’s money-suckers!) when they were both in their 40s, and who is very happy 10 years later. My uncle and his sort-of-wife, who dated in University, broke up, and found each other 30 years afterwards. My other uncle and his charming girlfriend. His last one was half his age. He broke up with her because they were in different stages in their lives. This one, closer in age, is much better suited to him, and they seem very good for one another.
Jeez, my family is just full of beta men.
There’s something deeply unsettling about the idea that I was apparently more sexually appealing to certain men at age 11 than at age 18.
re “coup de main”: in classical strategy it’s at attack at the head. A coup d’etat is a form of coup de main.
He is discussing a strategic disengagement, which is the opposite of a coup de main.
I dunno about Jackman, but Pierce Brosnan has a genuinely plus-sized wife.
Also, Tesla hated fat people? 🙁 *hangs up steampunk raygun in resignation*
More thoughts about the apparent MRA/PUA vendetta against Jackman and his (really not at all fat) wife.
The whole PUA and MRA enterprise depends on convincing both themselves and others that most men secretely agree with them. Jackman is an “alpha” – he’s a movie star, he’s rich, he’s hot, he clearly has lots of romantic and sexual options. If he has chosen to stay with a woman who’s “fat”, that proves that either some men actually prefer women who are older and/or heavier, or even some men who don’t have that preference will choose to stay with a woman who gets old/fat after they initially get together because they are actually in love with her, and consider having a less than physically perfect partner an acceptable tradeoff for having a partner who you love (or they’re just realistic enough to have already assumed that would happen eventually).
From a PUA point of view, this will not do, because it means that a. their theories about men’s innate nature are wrong and b. it really is just them that are so shallow and self-centered that they’d automatically end any relationship in which the appearance of their partner changed. This is particularly vexing when it’s a man like Jackman and they can’t pretend that he just doesn’t have other options. Plus it undermines their ideas about alphas, etc, so basically he’s betraying the cause, that bastard, by staying with his wife even though she’s ageing (how dare she?).
If even “alpha” men are capable of both love and loyalty…well, that fucks up the theory, doesn’t it?
Ami and I have often talked about how, in MRA/PUA genetic theory, you seem to inherit qualities ONLY FROM YOUR MOTHER if female, and ONLY FROM YOUR FATHER if male
There was a post on thespearhead recently where they blamed the increasing beta looks of the north Korean dictator’s male descendants on them breeding with hot north Korean ladies. Ie breeding with feminine ladies makes your male descendants feminine? So, if you want masculine male descendants you should breed with masculine females?
I want to drop links to BBW appreciator forums and BBW dating sites. It will make their own little head hamsters (no, guinea pigs!) run around in circles while I laugh my ass off at their rationalizations. Roissy already rationalizes that those men are the minority which may be true (or not, we’ll never really know for sure unless we do a decent study) but seeing him dedicate time into finding pics of a fat woman/normal man couple and bitching about it suggests it really bugs him. Which makes me lol.
I love how they also completely pretend that decades of classical paintings of naked fat chicks don’t exist. Or bustle skirts that purposely made women’s asses look huge. Skinny may be hot now but it wasn’t always and no amount of denial and rationalization will change that. Of course I just think it’s best to just aspire to be healthy rather than fit into one specific body type, and not spend all your time insulting people for having different preferences than you, but what do I know right?
I’ve also had 2 guys who had those cocky funny, alpha qualities pursue me for sex in the past. I never took them up on their offers since I was looking for a long term relationship. Didn’t they have skinny chicks to pump and dump or something? Do MRAs and PUAs actually realize that when women find out that people like them exist we actually become MORE guarded (which of course will come off as bitchy to them) I know I have.
I, for one, do not approve of the anti-pig libel. Pigs are cute, smart, and delicious, all excellent traits in a girlfriend.
Also, check out the kunekune. It’s from New Zealand and it’s name means “fat and round”.
Sorry, “its name”.
Katz, I will not forgive you for that errant apostrophe.