Today, a GUEST POST from Catherine! Thanks, Catherine! And the rest of you, enjoy!
Over on Chateau Heartiste, the (He)artist(e) Formerly Known As Roissy devoted a recent post to the conundrum of handsome men coupled with ugly women. It’s essentially an open thread for the denigration of women who don’t live up to Roissy’s porntastic standards (17 to 20 years old with a BMI of about 18 *and* a D cup, and related WTF?! attributes), as well as ragging on those awful beta manginas who are punching below their weight – or, to quote Heartiste himself, are “polluting the gene pool with pigwoman blood.”
I was participating in a mobile conference which included question and answer periods, and I noticed an odd couple standing to my side. He was youngish and good-looking — most women would agree on his physical attractiveness — and his wife was a snout-nosed, inbred-looking, stringy-haired, big fat pig dressed in sweatshirt and ill-fitting jeans. In other words, the typical American woman. I assumed they were married because I saw their rings and she had her hand on a stroller with an infant tucked away in it.
He’s just getting started.
What abomination is this! I thought. But then the reason became crystal clear after only a few moments watching and listening to them interact.
Speaker: Any questions?
Big Fat Pig: [nudging her hubby with her elbow] Honey, remember…
Handsome Husbandry: [tentatively raising his index and middle finger, and haltingly talking] I have a question… I have a…
So obviously the young good-looking man is totally under the thumb of the big fat evil feminist woman, who has sucked out his brains and reduced him to a quivering lump of hesitation and uncertainty!
As he asked his question, he kept looking over at his wife — in fact, staring at his wife more than the speaker, although he was ostensibly addressing the speaker. One would be forgiven for having the impression that he was seeking constant real-time assurance from his wife that his question was acceptable for public discourse. Nervously shifting from one foot to the other, leaning into his wife, gazing downward when the speaker responded to him, his body language was so beta it was painful to watch. No, it was repulsive to behold, almost as repulsive as the visual effrontery of his wife’s blubbery carcass.
So, sniveling, indecisive beta manginas are repulsive… but not as repulsive as a corpulent woman! Gotcha, Roissy.
After getting in a few more digs at the contemptuous, unsympathetic wife, Roissy sets forth his views on various types of couples. First, the kinds of couples that should be allowed to exist:
Handsome man with beautiful woman
All is right in the world. You infer the man has alpha characteristics to complement his good looks, and he has cashed that in for a hot babe. …
Ugly man with ugly woman
All is right, if depressing, in the world. You infer the ugly man has beta or even omega characteristics, and that an ugly woman was the best he could do. You assume the ugly woman resents him for having to settle, but knows she has no other options. Love between them is less about passion than it is about task delegation and avoidance of suicidal loneliness.
All is well in the world of alpha males with hot babes, but those in ugly people combos need to find some highly diverting hobbies to keep from offing themselves.
Now Roissy turns his attention to two apparent mismatches, and delineates his usual double standards:
Ugly man with beautiful woman
Wow, he is shooting out of his league! But then, thinking on it a bit, you recall that you saw quite a few couples like this mismatched pair during the week. It’s less rare than popularly imagined. You may ask yourself “What does she see in him?”, and from that you infer the ugly man has compensating alpha attributes to snag such a hottie — maybe he’s wealthy, or slick, or funny, or a dominating asshole, or some combination of each. You assume this ugly man has options to be able to choose a beauty for a girlfriend.
Moral: ugly men are permitted to have counter-balancing attributes! Can you guess what is coming next?
Handsome man with ugly woman
Whoa, what is he thinking?! An uncommon sight, (occurrence less frequent than its polar opposite), you presume the handsome man has some debilitating personality flaw — maybe social awkwardness, or shyness, or micropenis — that prevents him from fornicating with his true potential. Unlike the mirror image couple of the ugly man with the beautiful woman, you do not give the ugly woman the benefit of the doubt in assessing why she was able to catch a handsome man. You simply conclude, reasonably, that the handsome man is not the alpha male on the inside that he looks like on the outside, and therefore the ugly woman is not really dating out of her league. There must be something wrong with him, you think.
Women have no value beyond their looks, so the pitiful man dating someone wretchedly below Roissy’s artificial standards must likewise be sub-standard, in some way invisible to us, to have abased himself so humiliatingly.
Having drawn these pictures, Roissy rounds out the post with a sermon on female ugliness, which is to be universally shunned:
There is an instinctive, deeply primitive understanding chugging away behind the prefrontal cortex in every one of us that women sexually respond to a suite of male attractiveness traits, of which looks are only one desirable male quality. It is therefore not inconceivable to most non-brainwashed observers that an ugly man might have other characteristics that appeal to a beautiful woman on his arms, or that a handsome man might be crippled with weakness and self-doubt that constrains his ability to attract no better than a big fat pigwoman.
And we’re back to the disparaging references to pigs. Why, oh why does Roissy hate pork so? (That he detests women is more or less expected.)
In the mismatched couple I witnessed, it was clear that whatever good will or tokens of desire that the handsome man had inspired in his pigwoman were completely squandered by his beta behavior. It was easy to see by her loathsome demeanor that his looks no longer held — if they ever did beyond the first couple of dates — any sway over her feelings for him. But being the big fat pigwoman she is, she knew she could not do better.
And that is why the generational increase in human beauty is a slow, painstaking process, punctuated by tragic reversals to a sloping brow norm (see: Appalachia, Detroit). Handsome betas are polluting the gene pool with pigwoman blood.
What the hell was that? I’ll quote it again: “Handsome betas are polluting the gene pool with pigwoman blood.” Oh, the huge manatee! Shrink in terror from the impending doom to be brought about by porcine-human hybrids!
Naturally such hyperbole is a cue for some predictable misogyny in the comments, such as the following from regular tool Tyrone:
That’s why its good to be older to get a good sense for how a woman will age. There are loads of women who look hot when young but turn into cattle as they age. Mom is usually a good bench mark. If you’d do her Mom, you’re probably safe. Check out how Ginger Lynn looks like nowadays. You’d never recognize her from her porn days.
A view right in line with Roissy’s famed dating value regimen that women lose value once they’re older than, say, 29; and Tyrone follows it up with some white supremacism:
White people won’t survive without more kids. Smart white men need to breed more in our country- with white women.
What, you might ask, about women with great bodies but unappealing faces? One Anonymous coward urges his brethren to go for it :
[O]ne of my biggest regrets was not doing a girl who had the hottest body around but an ugly face. Temporarily of course.
But for fuck’s sake don’t marry them. Right, tenderman100?
Some years ago, before I was married for the first time (twice married, twice divorced) I was banging this babe. Amazing body. Amazing tits. But a kind of a bucktoothed face. When I first met her, I thought, wow what amazing tits…yeah she’s kinda ugly but she’s friendly and I just have to see those tat tas. Well, not only did I see them, we banged for a few months. She was incredible in bed, highly orgasmic, very flexible (did ballet). Haven’t seen her in decades, but if she is a fat cow, I wouldn’t be surprised. Yeah, she was ugly but she pounded like a pro. So it isn’t always what it seems. Then again, I would never have married her.
If not marriage, then what about a long-term relationship? Over again to Tyrone:
A good woman who has reparable shortcomings is still a good option for an LTR. Fugly is a whole different animal.
But if you marry one of them, Tyrone adds, make sure you have a contingency plan!
My wife knows if she ever lets herself go, talks about divorce, whatever that pisses me off enough to leave, I will simply disappear into the night. No arguments or emotions, it will be a complete coup de main. There won’t be anyone around to serve papers to. I’ll be overseas in an undisclosed location screwing LBFMs.
In case you don’t already know, LBFM is short for Little Brown Fucking Machines, a term of art to refer to Asian women (frequently underage) sought out by sex tourists — which should be sufficient to outline Tyrone’s sophisticated moral principles. He continues:
I say this with no emotion or bravado, just let her know its a fact that she must deal with. Marriage is like defense policy, the best defense is a good offense. Strike first, strike to kill. Identify a location and buy yourself some property there, so you have somewhere to go. Move enough money there to live well until you can start a bar or whatever to live. Plan this for a few years in advance if need be. Life is too short to be some stupid broad’s wage slave.
How charming!
Heartiste really has a way of bringing out the best in people!
From Wiki:
“Tesla never married. He was celibate and claimed that his chastity was very helpful to his scientific abilities. Nonetheless there have been numerous accounts of women vying for Tesla’s affection, even some madly in love with him. Tesla, though polite, behaved rather ambivalently to these women in the romantic sense.”
Yea….he doesn’t sound like an MGTOW. Because MGTOWs aren’t polite nor do they behave ambivalently to women. They act the complete opposite…usually by screaming about rancid vaginas and what evil whores we are.
Arksy-poo needs to find a new mascot.
I’m curiously – are we retroactively declaring any man who never got married a MGTOW? What about if he never got married because he was gay?
Freddy Mercury – MGTOW?
Hey, Quacks, I consider myself an “egalitarian,” as well as a humanist and pragmatist, as opposed to a feminist, due to the very notion of “butchering” you referred to. I believe that all people deserve to be treated with respect, except for these a**holes, and anyone else who deigns to blindly hate others on the basis of their gender, religion, race, age or other characteristics that do not conform to their dogmatic utopian ideals. The bottom line is, they’re just projecting their own lack of self-respect and self-hatred onto others. Back at cha’!
Or, you know, curious.
(And lacking sleep.)
Quackers:
“and was he, as the PUAs have said before “swimming in pussy” Niki?”
*snorts* He did well okay the young 20 college girl crowd (I was approaching my 30s when we dated). I’m daily thankful that I got out of there disease-free.
CassandraSays:
Pussy Swimming Pool will make an awesome name for a band 🙂
Leni:
The tale is thankfully short. I was dumb and moved in with a guy for a few months before I discovered that he had a copy of The Game and some other PUA book who’s title I forget, probably because that book was covered with a book cover to keep people from noticing what he was reading in public. That one introduced me to the concepts of negging and the basics that frankly made my tummy turn. A few years of drama later, and I still kick myself for even staying as long as I did. On a high point, I learned the importance of having standards!
@Alphalady
It’s cool 🙂 I don’t mind what people call themselves really, as long as they don’t hate others based on gender, race or the other characteristics you mentioned. I do get annoyed when people blindly misconstrue feminism though, based on what I mentioned, however all I can do is point out why they are wrong. In the end they still get to choose if they want to call themselves feminist or not. I can’t force it on anyone. What gets me about the Ann Coulters or Phyllis Schlafly’s of the world though, is if it weren’t for feminism, they wouldn’t even be IN politics. They should stick to their beliefs and get back in the kitchen then 😛
@David
Haha Man Island…I’d love to see that!
@Quackers
I understand that someone could potentially say, “I’m not a feminist but support equal rights” but likewise, I’ve heard that from so many MRAs that it seems, too, to have been butchered. Also, I feel like shying away from a term because MRAs try to tarnish it isn’t the answer because that’s exactly what MRAs want. And they’ll find a way to make egalitiarianism look bad as well, I’m sure.
“Also its possible to point out some ways men get discriminated against without pretending that women never face or have faced any discrimination ever, or blaming every single problem on the horrible feminists that apparently control everything.”
Again, very possible. But as we’ve seen on this blog over and over, the MRM enjoys using examples of misandry (although some seem a bit absurd to me, like the whole point about portayals of dad in sitcoms) as an excuse to threaten feminists with death and rape.
So basically, I agree that someone can fairly criticize the feminist movement and also call out misandry, but I don’t expect this type of person to emerge from the MRM anytime soon.
@Crumbelievable
Good point. I too get sick of that saying too. I think it’s important to correct people’s misunderstandings about feminism. I try my best to do that, but it’s all you can really do. In the end it’s up to people to choose whether they want to call themselves feminist or not.
MRAs use emotionally-charged victimizing language in order to incite anger in their readers. The angrier you are, the less logically you think, thus inciting more rage and possibly escalating into physical violence. It’s scary stuff and what they’re doing is trying to scare feminists into shutting up. As we’ve seen with register her. And the feminists speaking out against rape and death threats. It’s not about misandry or trying to find common ground, its about making those with differing opinions and issues keep quiet as well as those who talk about rape keep quiet by flooding comment sections with talks about rape accusations.
I just looked up a picture of Hugh Jackman’s wife. She’s fat to those people? God, they’d hate my girlfriend (who is the SEXIEST WOMAN ALIVE and anyone who says different is lying). But, seriously, that lady is not fat at all.
I’d personally bet Tesla was asexual.
Hi Manboobz,
Great work on this blog. My (male) partner and I have enjoyed traversing the very worst of the uber-radfem and uber-caveman Morons’ Rights Activists blogospheres during our holiday break (yes, holiday – commence screaming about the Grand American Christian Persecution 2011). We laugh heartily at the recurring themes among both, namely, a deep and loathing sense of misanthropy that tops even ours as the powers-that-be scheme to transfer yet more of our piddling middle-class “wealth” to the top 1 percent while whining about “class warfare.”
According to the Artist Formerly Known As Roissy, I have violated every single tenet of acceptable womanhood…I mean girlhood, because let’s be honest about who he really wants – girls. I am over 25. I have a career, and outearn my dude manifold. I vote liberal. I am bi (and so is my dude, oh the horror). I was initially attracted to my dude (former model!) based on looks, then on intelligence, and he has not a penny to his name, and I don’t care. We are eloping. We don’t like or want kids, and we are keen on fighting the “family values” set, who want to take away our porn, his personhood, and my right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. We don’t believe in gender roles.
And perhaps most importantly, for the sake of this conversation, we think Game is a laughable scam, like SEO keyword stuffing, or those texts we keep getting that claim we won Tahitian cruises or Wal-Mart gift cards. We also recently enjoyed uncovering a photo of Roissy, showing him to be an over-40 dufus with a mouth like a fish, dressed in college-boy clothing, and bearing a facial expression of unparalleled cluelessness. If he’s landed any woman at all, it is a woman with self-esteem ground in the dirt, or who is severely emotionally damaged. A clueless child, more or less like Roissy himself, but who is lacking his bitter world view.
In truth, a cursory reading of his alleged sexual conquests proves them to be little more than figments of his imagination. I make money off my writing, and I can tell when someone is bluffing with language. My partner and I have both done quite well for ourselves sexually prior to committing, and even past that point in our open relationship – soon to be open marriage. Yet somehow, we did not see the need to create blogs bragging about our sexual prowess. I wonder why that is? (Cue the MRA whining about “shaming language.” Naw, brah. A spade’s a spade.)
If Roissy were truly banging young lasses left and right, and were as gifted at “Game” as he claims to be, then why is he so deeply troubled by couples mismatched in looks, career women, GLBT people, and those who wish to vote for Barack Obama? Peel away all the pseudo-manly swagger, and the content, stripped down to its naked elements, is nothing more than a reactionary’s wailing against the real world. Our dear little boy is butt-hurt that millions of other modern folk don’t wish to live – or even see the world – the way he does. His online fantasy life, where he attracts a hivemind a few hundred deep, all of whom are equally butthurt that the 1950s are dead and buried, is his only respite from the trials and tribulations of the 21st century. Much as I loathe the Religious Right, its followers are at least honest about their intentions, unlike Roissy, who coats his reactionary views with the cracked, charlatan patina of “Game.”
Women over 25, feminists, people who don’t believe in gender roles, are “crap,” he says? WONDERFUL! More for us! Many people under 25 are emotional children. We know Roissy doesn’t believe in biology, but we are strongly pro-science, and science tells us the human brain doesn’t fully mature until one’s mid-20s. Perhaps that’s why Roissy dates only within a certain age range. He knows that a fully mature human brain is less likely to buy up the infantile manipulations of a fish-mouthed man who only wants one thing from women. And they’re much more likely to see his vomiting his fears, along with his half-cocked sexual “conquest” stories all over the Internet for what it is.
Bravo on a great post.
She’s so normal looking. 40-something Roissy with his unpleasant personality thinks that he’s too good for a woman like that?
Damn, that’s funny.
Drop-dead gorgeous Hugh Jackman is married to a “normal looking” woman. I am sure that the MRAs are losing sleep over that one!
To add insult to injury, he looks really happy! That must really pain them.
Yes, Cassandra, especially since Dalrock has to emphasize that his wife is “sexy” every chance he gets. Then again, “sexy” to the likes of him and his cronies translates to young, dumb “Stepford Wife.” I wonder just how “sexy” he will find her once she no longer has “sexual market value.” (In other words, when she turns 35!)
35? I thought it was 25 these days, or possibly 21. Maybe 18. Eventually we’re going to hit a point where any woman old enough to be legal is an unfuckable hag from their point of view.
(Makes it so much easier to explain away the fact that you can’t actually persuade any women to fuck you.)
haha. 30 is the cutoff I believe. I can feel the ol’ hips starting to go now that you mention it.
Normal looking?
She’s about as normal looking as Hugh is, which is to say she, like he, looks much better than most of us.
Don’t believe me? Go spend an afternoon at Walmart. Or at Reddit.
Also: DON’T DO IT, WOLVERINE!
@Niki
That could explain why PUAs hate on older women so much. Usually when we get older we put up with less bullshit from people and have figured out what we really want in a partner. Even the author of The Game said game doesn’t teach relationships. So if all these game dudes aspire to be some college girl’s mistake or one night stand…whatever floats your boat I guess. As long as they stay away from the rapey aspects of game. That I will forever speak out against because it’s borderline illegal and just plain wrong.
Yes, I’ve been reading that 18-21 is the ideal age range, after which, women are over the hill. Others, who revel in their pedophile tendencies behind the comfortable anonymity of a computer screen, believe the ideal range is 12-17, and that the age of consent is the creation of hateful feminists who want to “trick” men into sleeping with “over-25 hags.” I guess by their reasoning, Jerry Sandusky’s actions at Penn State were morally jack-a-dandy, too.
I tell you, dating bi men and women has saved me from nearly 100 percent of the misogyny floating about in the heterosexual dating world. I’m honestly grateful most days not to be part of it. While I do have fewer choices than others thanks to sheer numbers, and we GLBT folk have our own issues – butch vs. femme, are transwomen “real women”? (my opinion: yes, love ’em), is marriage necessary or just acquiescing to heteronormativity? – I’m glad the misogyny is one thing that’s NOT on my worry list.
I do think the fact that young girls tend to be willing to put up with a lot more crap from men is a big part of the draw. Plus it’s easier to impress people with really basic stuff like having a job and an apartment when they’re at the life stage where they aren’t really supporting themselves yet.
Tesla was a genius, but he was a very, very troubled one, with serious issues dealing with the world around him. He was phobic about germs, obsessive about numbers, etc. etc.
Tesla also heavily fixated on a pigeon
“Yes,” he replied to an unasked question. “Yes, I loved that pigeon, I loved her as a man loves a woman, and she loved me. When she was ill I knew, and understood; she came to my room and I stayed beside her for days. I nursed her back to health. That pigeon was the joy of my life. If she needed me, nothing else mattered. As long as I had her, there was a purpose in my life.”
And actually spoke against the enforced subservience of women in his time, and there’s an interview where he pretty much states that someday women will be in charge, and it will be for the best, so.
Hardly an ideal MGTOW.
Maybe Arks just needs to find his pigeon and then he’ll finally go his own way and stop whinging at women about how he’s going to go any day now and we’ll be sorry.
Jeez, that Tyrone is a prize!
Being married to him most be like having a wolf/dog hybrid as a pet. Sure, it mosly looks and acts like a dog, but the minute you show any human weakness it goes for the throat.
Also just as I was typing that Madeline threw up on my mother’s guest bed and four places on the carpet, and cleaning up that mess was significantly more pleasant than reading anything Roissy/Heartiste and friends have to say.
KristinMH, I feel so sorry for Tyrone’s wife, assuming she actually exists. In my other comments on the previous page, I thoroughly explained how absurd his little plan actually is. He would not get off scot-free for running away to another country to avoid divorce. It’s not like he’s the first person to come up with the idea of deserting his family.
Hey, Quacks and Cassandra, I always thought they were closet pedophiles!