Today, a GUEST POST from Catherine! Thanks, Catherine! And the rest of you, enjoy!
Over on Chateau Heartiste, the (He)artist(e) Formerly Known As Roissy devoted a recent post to the conundrum of handsome men coupled with ugly women. It’s essentially an open thread for the denigration of women who don’t live up to Roissy’s porntastic standards (17 to 20 years old with a BMI of about 18 *and* a D cup, and related WTF?! attributes), as well as ragging on those awful beta manginas who are punching below their weight – or, to quote Heartiste himself, are “polluting the gene pool with pigwoman blood.”
I was participating in a mobile conference which included question and answer periods, and I noticed an odd couple standing to my side. He was youngish and good-looking — most women would agree on his physical attractiveness — and his wife was a snout-nosed, inbred-looking, stringy-haired, big fat pig dressed in sweatshirt and ill-fitting jeans. In other words, the typical American woman. I assumed they were married because I saw their rings and she had her hand on a stroller with an infant tucked away in it.
He’s just getting started.
What abomination is this! I thought. But then the reason became crystal clear after only a few moments watching and listening to them interact.
Speaker: Any questions?
Big Fat Pig: [nudging her hubby with her elbow] Honey, remember…
Handsome Husbandry: [tentatively raising his index and middle finger, and haltingly talking] I have a question… I have a…
So obviously the young good-looking man is totally under the thumb of the big fat evil feminist woman, who has sucked out his brains and reduced him to a quivering lump of hesitation and uncertainty!
As he asked his question, he kept looking over at his wife — in fact, staring at his wife more than the speaker, although he was ostensibly addressing the speaker. One would be forgiven for having the impression that he was seeking constant real-time assurance from his wife that his question was acceptable for public discourse. Nervously shifting from one foot to the other, leaning into his wife, gazing downward when the speaker responded to him, his body language was so beta it was painful to watch. No, it was repulsive to behold, almost as repulsive as the visual effrontery of his wife’s blubbery carcass.
So, sniveling, indecisive beta manginas are repulsive… but not as repulsive as a corpulent woman! Gotcha, Roissy.
After getting in a few more digs at the contemptuous, unsympathetic wife, Roissy sets forth his views on various types of couples. First, the kinds of couples that should be allowed to exist:
Handsome man with beautiful woman
All is right in the world. You infer the man has alpha characteristics to complement his good looks, and he has cashed that in for a hot babe. …
Ugly man with ugly woman
All is right, if depressing, in the world. You infer the ugly man has beta or even omega characteristics, and that an ugly woman was the best he could do. You assume the ugly woman resents him for having to settle, but knows she has no other options. Love between them is less about passion than it is about task delegation and avoidance of suicidal loneliness.
All is well in the world of alpha males with hot babes, but those in ugly people combos need to find some highly diverting hobbies to keep from offing themselves.
Now Roissy turns his attention to two apparent mismatches, and delineates his usual double standards:
Ugly man with beautiful woman
Wow, he is shooting out of his league! But then, thinking on it a bit, you recall that you saw quite a few couples like this mismatched pair during the week. It’s less rare than popularly imagined. You may ask yourself “What does she see in him?”, and from that you infer the ugly man has compensating alpha attributes to snag such a hottie — maybe he’s wealthy, or slick, or funny, or a dominating asshole, or some combination of each. You assume this ugly man has options to be able to choose a beauty for a girlfriend.
Moral: ugly men are permitted to have counter-balancing attributes! Can you guess what is coming next?
Handsome man with ugly woman
Whoa, what is he thinking?! An uncommon sight, (occurrence less frequent than its polar opposite), you presume the handsome man has some debilitating personality flaw — maybe social awkwardness, or shyness, or micropenis — that prevents him from fornicating with his true potential. Unlike the mirror image couple of the ugly man with the beautiful woman, you do not give the ugly woman the benefit of the doubt in assessing why she was able to catch a handsome man. You simply conclude, reasonably, that the handsome man is not the alpha male on the inside that he looks like on the outside, and therefore the ugly woman is not really dating out of her league. There must be something wrong with him, you think.
Women have no value beyond their looks, so the pitiful man dating someone wretchedly below Roissy’s artificial standards must likewise be sub-standard, in some way invisible to us, to have abased himself so humiliatingly.
Having drawn these pictures, Roissy rounds out the post with a sermon on female ugliness, which is to be universally shunned:
There is an instinctive, deeply primitive understanding chugging away behind the prefrontal cortex in every one of us that women sexually respond to a suite of male attractiveness traits, of which looks are only one desirable male quality. It is therefore not inconceivable to most non-brainwashed observers that an ugly man might have other characteristics that appeal to a beautiful woman on his arms, or that a handsome man might be crippled with weakness and self-doubt that constrains his ability to attract no better than a big fat pigwoman.
And we’re back to the disparaging references to pigs. Why, oh why does Roissy hate pork so? (That he detests women is more or less expected.)
In the mismatched couple I witnessed, it was clear that whatever good will or tokens of desire that the handsome man had inspired in his pigwoman were completely squandered by his beta behavior. It was easy to see by her loathsome demeanor that his looks no longer held — if they ever did beyond the first couple of dates — any sway over her feelings for him. But being the big fat pigwoman she is, she knew she could not do better.
And that is why the generational increase in human beauty is a slow, painstaking process, punctuated by tragic reversals to a sloping brow norm (see: Appalachia, Detroit). Handsome betas are polluting the gene pool with pigwoman blood.
What the hell was that? I’ll quote it again: “Handsome betas are polluting the gene pool with pigwoman blood.” Oh, the huge manatee! Shrink in terror from the impending doom to be brought about by porcine-human hybrids!
Naturally such hyperbole is a cue for some predictable misogyny in the comments, such as the following from regular tool Tyrone:
That’s why its good to be older to get a good sense for how a woman will age. There are loads of women who look hot when young but turn into cattle as they age. Mom is usually a good bench mark. If you’d do her Mom, you’re probably safe. Check out how Ginger Lynn looks like nowadays. You’d never recognize her from her porn days.
A view right in line with Roissy’s famed dating value regimen that women lose value once they’re older than, say, 29; and Tyrone follows it up with some white supremacism:
White people won’t survive without more kids. Smart white men need to breed more in our country- with white women.
What, you might ask, about women with great bodies but unappealing faces? One Anonymous coward urges his brethren to go for it :
[O]ne of my biggest regrets was not doing a girl who had the hottest body around but an ugly face. Temporarily of course.
But for fuck’s sake don’t marry them. Right, tenderman100?
Some years ago, before I was married for the first time (twice married, twice divorced) I was banging this babe. Amazing body. Amazing tits. But a kind of a bucktoothed face. When I first met her, I thought, wow what amazing tits…yeah she’s kinda ugly but she’s friendly and I just have to see those tat tas. Well, not only did I see them, we banged for a few months. She was incredible in bed, highly orgasmic, very flexible (did ballet). Haven’t seen her in decades, but if she is a fat cow, I wouldn’t be surprised. Yeah, she was ugly but she pounded like a pro. So it isn’t always what it seems. Then again, I would never have married her.
If not marriage, then what about a long-term relationship? Over again to Tyrone:
A good woman who has reparable shortcomings is still a good option for an LTR. Fugly is a whole different animal.
But if you marry one of them, Tyrone adds, make sure you have a contingency plan!
My wife knows if she ever lets herself go, talks about divorce, whatever that pisses me off enough to leave, I will simply disappear into the night. No arguments or emotions, it will be a complete coup de main. There won’t be anyone around to serve papers to. I’ll be overseas in an undisclosed location screwing LBFMs.
In case you don’t already know, LBFM is short for Little Brown Fucking Machines, a term of art to refer to Asian women (frequently underage) sought out by sex tourists — which should be sufficient to outline Tyrone’s sophisticated moral principles. He continues:
I say this with no emotion or bravado, just let her know its a fact that she must deal with. Marriage is like defense policy, the best defense is a good offense. Strike first, strike to kill. Identify a location and buy yourself some property there, so you have somewhere to go. Move enough money there to live well until you can start a bar or whatever to live. Plan this for a few years in advance if need be. Life is too short to be some stupid broad’s wage slave.
How charming!
Heartiste really has a way of bringing out the best in people!
Who says the husbands and boyfriends are paying for them? why do you assume to know why those women are getting plastic surgery?
makeover shows like What Not to Wear are paid for by the producers and often feature women who focus so much on their families and careers that they don’t have enough time for themselves.
and on top of that, it’s TV! it’s not real! the media is not reflective of real life. It’s trying to SELL YOU SHIT. Most women do not have the money to throw away on plastic surgery or home renovations. Most couples spend their money on more important things. I am so sick of you assholes who just assume all women do nothing but spend men’s money. I bet you think we’re all like the Jersey Shore chicks right? Do you even KNOW any women? women who are above 18 with actual lives that include career, family and responsibility?
“I think it is more of a radical concept for a man to be unmarried.”
I seem to know more older men who never married than I do older women who never married, but that’s just anecdotal evidence.
Why even engage this dumbass who is probably trolling anyway. MRAL he’s all yours.
You said:I feel like I’m living on some alien planet, the constant attacks on men in the media encompassing all forms such as the putdowns, the innuendos and the outright insults.
Then you said:We MGTOW men do not let our spirits become poisoned by our current environement, we remain happy bachelors.
Dude. NO ONE CARES. Go your own way already.
Also when I say media is not reflective of real life, I don’t mean that it doesn’t influence our lives. It does. But that most of the time it’s trying to sell you an unrealistic ideal that most people cannot obtain.
@MRAL
What about Facial Alphas? Where do they fit in?
Oh, and now that you’ve come out of the MRA closet and admitted that you’re not really as disgustingly hate-filled as many of your past posts would lead us to believe, is the name Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant just ironic? Have you thought about changing it?
“Facial Alpha” isn’t a rank, it’s a power-up, sort if like those mushrooms that turn Mario into Big Mario.
Hey, do all those ranks come with little badges, like in Brownies?
You should suggest that to Heartiste.
@MRAL:
I would ask that you not make your suggestions to Heartiste/any other PUA. If dude starts Super Marioing his alphas then Ima have to move Heaven and Earth to become the alphaest of alphas. I’m sorry ladies, I’ll always love y’all but Raccoon Suit>Humanity. And forget Alpha Prime, you’ll see me Alpha Voltron in this bitch for a Tanooki suit!!
JTK: Men are actually living longer, so the gap between available women and men in the golden agers bracket is narrowing. I personally know a great many older men who are dating women close to them in age. If the women are younger, they are by 5 to 10 years, which is not that significant. (A close friend of my parents, who is 75, just got dumped by his 73-year-old girlfriend because she felt they had nothing in common. He is now dating a 65-year-old. Ironically, although he thinks the new girlfriend is very nice, he said he still misses the previous, older girlfriend because he really loved her.)
I don’t know of a single 70-something man who wants to date women in their 20s. I also know of some 60-something women who are dating younger men. Once again, they are not that much younger, maybe 5 years or so. But these scenarios show that not all older men are chasing 20-something Barbi dolls.
Quackers also has a great point: many women are not in relationships by choice, but are referred to as undesirable “crazy cat ladies.” (Like that’s a bad thing.) That’s just another myth invented by the MRAs to alleviate their own insecurities about independent women.
Oh man, this is the best. JTK is the funniest troll I’ve seen since Zero Tolerance Man. Can we keep him? Please?
Also, JTK, it’s true that women feel pressure to use anti aging products and plastic surgery to look younger. Men also have to deal with ageism, but not as much as women do. That doesn’t mean, though, that all men everywhere want to date and marry women decades younger than them. Some men actually prefer women their own age, because they tend to have more in common. Not everyone is as superficial and shallow as PUA’s and MRA’s.
BTW, it’s not that impressive that MGTOW know how to cook for themselves and do their own laundry. Does that mean that they wouldn’t do those things if they weren’t going their own way? I’m glad those men are going their own way if they consider wives and girlfriends to be unpaid maids.
Quackers:
Snookie probably makes more money in one year than the gross lifetime income of every MRA combined.
I’m pretty sure she can afford to pay for her own “renovations”.
Arks: Now we might not be building death rays every day like he was, but we’re still for the most part good men.
Assumes facts not in evidence. Here’s what I know, from personal experience: There are a number of men who are abstinent, who are decent. They might even be said to be, “going their own way” (though most have perfectly acceptable relationships with females of the human species). What they aren’t doing is making a big deal about how this is a moral statement on the evils of women.
The MGTOW I have encountered (that is those who make a point of how much they are going their own way, as a “statement”) have all been bitter, and degrading, as well as showing damned little in the way of comprehension of women being people, just like them.
They are misogynists, who dress it up as some sort of struggle between the genders; with women as the bad guys.
Then the crow about how noble they are, while saying ridiculously false things about women, and the men who aren’t as deluded at they are.
I just realized something. If the PUA’s are upset that there is a shortage of skinny 18 year old women, then they should encourage alpha men to pair up with older women and plus sized women. That would mean there would be more skinny 18 year old women available for PUA’s to pursue.
JTK: This is why MGTOW will always be the superior movement. It tells women that it takes two to tango.
Bullshit. MGTOW is telling men they are being oppressed and that a boycott is needed to make women behave in a way that pleases the MGTOWs.
Because the idea that, The world will improve when women collectively agree to grow personalities, grow spines, get some hobbies and graduate to being human beings, not by continuing this sick system of women as temperamental rubiks cubes and guys as those who have to restructure their lives to solve them.” fails to take into account that any number of women are getting exactly those sorts of relationships because they are exactly that sort of person. But that they are bothers the MGTOWS, who seem to want a Melleresque dystopia, which they think they will enjoy.
Men aren’t going… no matter how much you want to dream of it, deny themselves, nor the women they care about, the pleasure of sex. Moreover, they don’t need to, because your ideas of what’s, “wrong” with the world don’t match the experience they have.
Which is why you have to spend so much time trying to convert them; and why guys like CIO have to fume about the nasty vaginas of the foul beasts which your lot claim women to be.
Good luck with that.
Explore Nature: I see you are both an “essentialist” and a deep drinker of the naturalistic fallacy.
Feminists do not want even to act as human females.
Wrong. They are acting as human females, this is because they are 1: human, and 2: females. Hence what they do are the acts of human females. Animals (even the, “lesser” animals) have a wide variety of behaviors. Are you walking the savannah and hiding from baboons who want to take your food; while trying to keep out of sight from cape buffalo and hyenas? No? Then you aren’t acting as a “human male”.
Then again, I’ll bet you aren’t living near the coast, eating lots of salmon, some fiddleheads, enjoying some seal and whale and reveling in regular acts of potlatch.
Perhaps you should be leveling rice paddies, eating some chicken or duck, once a week, the odd piece of pork every so often.
Mind you, each of those is incompatible with the others… and each is completely human.
What feminists aren’t doing is catering to your desires. Sucks to be you, with your, “masculinity”. Me… I’m pretty masculine. Done lots of those, “manly” things (tools, guns, violence, sex, eating meat, baseball), and yet… feminists like me. Contrary to your assertion, I’ve never had a feminist tell me there was something wrong with me. I suspect this is because I treat them as I would like to be treated… as people with their own interests, and desires and the right to pursue them; even when it didn’t benefit me.
Do the PUA’s want to be competing with Hugh Jackman for the 18 year old women? That doesn’t make any sense.
But frankly, I don’t think Hugh Jackman and his wife is any more “surprising” or “refreshing” or whatever than an ugly man with a hot women would be. You see that shit in sitcoms because sitcom writers are mostly dudes, and also it’s about the comedy not the realism, but in real life, I don’t think ugly men with beautiful women is any more common than the reverse. And when I say that, I mean ugly and beautiful, not “a little below average” and “a little above average”. That’s all down to opinion, and opinions differ, but at the extremes I’d say most people agree.
Ok I had something of an epiphany when reading both David’s post and the comments about why these guys hate the whole fat women, handsome man thing.
The reason they are so disgusted by the idea is I think that deep down they know that what they do to get women is dishonest and really rather repugnant so in there minds when they see a woman they fell is of low quality with a guy who is alpha (don’t know if I’m using the terminology correctly then again I don’t really care) they think that she probably used the same dishonest and repugnant tactics to get him as they do to get women, its projection is what I’m trying to say.
kiki: The Karate Kid is similar, if a little less far-fetched: do a few simple, untaxing tasks that take you nowhere near the intimidating, physically demanding reality of a martial arts class, and before you know it you’re kicking blonde karate jock douchebag ass with a broken tibia. Although at least Ralph Macchio has to actually charm the love interest himself in that one.
The Karate Kid is using metaphoric action. It’s like going to Hombu for a three-week intensive, instead of visiting the dojo once a week. The day in day out makes a difference. The film just compressed that idea.
Yeah, it was temporally telescoped, but in much the same way a book will move between chapters. No way the film hold interest if it takes hours of time to show the development, much less deal with the dramatic plotline running in tandem.
/end derail on elements of dramatic development
JTK: What I am saying is MGTOW could be however a man lives his life. With the caveat of not getting married.
So the “movement” is just a bunch of dudes who live life on their terms and don’t get married.
That makes me an MGTOW, right?
I’ll bet it doesn’t. Because your new definition is meaningless. I happen to think women, as they are, are just fine. I think society, as it is, doesn’t let women do what they might like, to the same level it lets men. I want to see that changed, so that women (and men) may do what pleases them; so long as they aren’t harming others.
In re: controlling women, to be fair, my mother is on the controlling side in her relationship with my father. But then, she is a typical can-do USian and he is a rather dithering Western Canadian who was raised in such a different world that he’s more or less a displaced time traveller. And now that they’re both retired, the traditional division of labour within their marriage means that she is still the one directing the household, telling him what needs to be done when, because how would he know?
IME when men talk about women being controlling, it means “she tells me to do
necessary things which I won’t take responsibility for myself”. Like my parents, only my dad doesn’t complain about it, because he appreciates the decades of domestic and organizational work my mother has done for him. If this isn’t what you want, MRAs, then JOIN US and restructure relationships so that both partners either take equal responsibility for their lives or divide labour in mutually agreeable, not just culturally mandated, ways.
JTK: I actually share your dislike of 99.999% of the media these days, but you know, besides NOT watching it, I don’t blame ALL men for it (though straight white men tend to be the dominant ones who control/produce most of the media).
Let me enlighten your ignorance about lesbian separatism because THEY went their own way:
http://www.glreview.com/issues/13.2/13.2-johnston.php
Your idea that white straight men are so much the victim is laughable; the idea that women are controlling you is ludicrous, and your idea of radical (are you the one who thinks shopping at Wal-Mart is RAD?) is beyond hilarious into pathetic.
@Pencunium
I don’t know, I remember a lot of trying to do forms while exhausted from push-ups and stance training…
I don’t think I’ll still be able to win a tournament with a broken tibia. 😉
@MRAL, where does Optimus Prime fit into that?
I’m pretty sure the blue pill is to make “Little Mister” happy. But it must have been entertaining to hear, “I’m not here to make you happy. I’m here because I’m GOING MY OWN WAY! And you happen to be eating dinner at the same table, so I suppose I’ll go home with you.”