Today, a GUEST POST from Catherine! Thanks, Catherine! And the rest of you, enjoy!
Over on Chateau Heartiste, the (He)artist(e) Formerly Known As Roissy devoted a recent post to the conundrum of handsome men coupled with ugly women. It’s essentially an open thread for the denigration of women who don’t live up to Roissy’s porntastic standards (17 to 20 years old with a BMI of about 18 *and* a D cup, and related WTF?! attributes), as well as ragging on those awful beta manginas who are punching below their weight – or, to quote Heartiste himself, are “polluting the gene pool with pigwoman blood.”
I was participating in a mobile conference which included question and answer periods, and I noticed an odd couple standing to my side. He was youngish and good-looking — most women would agree on his physical attractiveness — and his wife was a snout-nosed, inbred-looking, stringy-haired, big fat pig dressed in sweatshirt and ill-fitting jeans. In other words, the typical American woman. I assumed they were married because I saw their rings and she had her hand on a stroller with an infant tucked away in it.
He’s just getting started.
What abomination is this! I thought. But then the reason became crystal clear after only a few moments watching and listening to them interact.
Speaker: Any questions?
Big Fat Pig: [nudging her hubby with her elbow] Honey, remember…
Handsome Husbandry: [tentatively raising his index and middle finger, and haltingly talking] I have a question… I have a…
So obviously the young good-looking man is totally under the thumb of the big fat evil feminist woman, who has sucked out his brains and reduced him to a quivering lump of hesitation and uncertainty!
As he asked his question, he kept looking over at his wife — in fact, staring at his wife more than the speaker, although he was ostensibly addressing the speaker. One would be forgiven for having the impression that he was seeking constant real-time assurance from his wife that his question was acceptable for public discourse. Nervously shifting from one foot to the other, leaning into his wife, gazing downward when the speaker responded to him, his body language was so beta it was painful to watch. No, it was repulsive to behold, almost as repulsive as the visual effrontery of his wife’s blubbery carcass.
So, sniveling, indecisive beta manginas are repulsive… but not as repulsive as a corpulent woman! Gotcha, Roissy.
After getting in a few more digs at the contemptuous, unsympathetic wife, Roissy sets forth his views on various types of couples. First, the kinds of couples that should be allowed to exist:
Handsome man with beautiful woman
All is right in the world. You infer the man has alpha characteristics to complement his good looks, and he has cashed that in for a hot babe. …
Ugly man with ugly woman
All is right, if depressing, in the world. You infer the ugly man has beta or even omega characteristics, and that an ugly woman was the best he could do. You assume the ugly woman resents him for having to settle, but knows she has no other options. Love between them is less about passion than it is about task delegation and avoidance of suicidal loneliness.
All is well in the world of alpha males with hot babes, but those in ugly people combos need to find some highly diverting hobbies to keep from offing themselves.
Now Roissy turns his attention to two apparent mismatches, and delineates his usual double standards:
Ugly man with beautiful woman
Wow, he is shooting out of his league! But then, thinking on it a bit, you recall that you saw quite a few couples like this mismatched pair during the week. It’s less rare than popularly imagined. You may ask yourself “What does she see in him?”, and from that you infer the ugly man has compensating alpha attributes to snag such a hottie — maybe he’s wealthy, or slick, or funny, or a dominating asshole, or some combination of each. You assume this ugly man has options to be able to choose a beauty for a girlfriend.
Moral: ugly men are permitted to have counter-balancing attributes! Can you guess what is coming next?
Handsome man with ugly woman
Whoa, what is he thinking?! An uncommon sight, (occurrence less frequent than its polar opposite), you presume the handsome man has some debilitating personality flaw — maybe social awkwardness, or shyness, or micropenis — that prevents him from fornicating with his true potential. Unlike the mirror image couple of the ugly man with the beautiful woman, you do not give the ugly woman the benefit of the doubt in assessing why she was able to catch a handsome man. You simply conclude, reasonably, that the handsome man is not the alpha male on the inside that he looks like on the outside, and therefore the ugly woman is not really dating out of her league. There must be something wrong with him, you think.
Women have no value beyond their looks, so the pitiful man dating someone wretchedly below Roissy’s artificial standards must likewise be sub-standard, in some way invisible to us, to have abased himself so humiliatingly.
Having drawn these pictures, Roissy rounds out the post with a sermon on female ugliness, which is to be universally shunned:
There is an instinctive, deeply primitive understanding chugging away behind the prefrontal cortex in every one of us that women sexually respond to a suite of male attractiveness traits, of which looks are only one desirable male quality. It is therefore not inconceivable to most non-brainwashed observers that an ugly man might have other characteristics that appeal to a beautiful woman on his arms, or that a handsome man might be crippled with weakness and self-doubt that constrains his ability to attract no better than a big fat pigwoman.
And we’re back to the disparaging references to pigs. Why, oh why does Roissy hate pork so? (That he detests women is more or less expected.)
In the mismatched couple I witnessed, it was clear that whatever good will or tokens of desire that the handsome man had inspired in his pigwoman were completely squandered by his beta behavior. It was easy to see by her loathsome demeanor that his looks no longer held — if they ever did beyond the first couple of dates — any sway over her feelings for him. But being the big fat pigwoman she is, she knew she could not do better.
And that is why the generational increase in human beauty is a slow, painstaking process, punctuated by tragic reversals to a sloping brow norm (see: Appalachia, Detroit). Handsome betas are polluting the gene pool with pigwoman blood.
What the hell was that? I’ll quote it again: “Handsome betas are polluting the gene pool with pigwoman blood.” Oh, the huge manatee! Shrink in terror from the impending doom to be brought about by porcine-human hybrids!
Naturally such hyperbole is a cue for some predictable misogyny in the comments, such as the following from regular tool Tyrone:
That’s why its good to be older to get a good sense for how a woman will age. There are loads of women who look hot when young but turn into cattle as they age. Mom is usually a good bench mark. If you’d do her Mom, you’re probably safe. Check out how Ginger Lynn looks like nowadays. You’d never recognize her from her porn days.
A view right in line with Roissy’s famed dating value regimen that women lose value once they’re older than, say, 29; and Tyrone follows it up with some white supremacism:
White people won’t survive without more kids. Smart white men need to breed more in our country- with white women.
What, you might ask, about women with great bodies but unappealing faces? One Anonymous coward urges his brethren to go for it :
[O]ne of my biggest regrets was not doing a girl who had the hottest body around but an ugly face. Temporarily of course.
But for fuck’s sake don’t marry them. Right, tenderman100?
Some years ago, before I was married for the first time (twice married, twice divorced) I was banging this babe. Amazing body. Amazing tits. But a kind of a bucktoothed face. When I first met her, I thought, wow what amazing tits…yeah she’s kinda ugly but she’s friendly and I just have to see those tat tas. Well, not only did I see them, we banged for a few months. She was incredible in bed, highly orgasmic, very flexible (did ballet). Haven’t seen her in decades, but if she is a fat cow, I wouldn’t be surprised. Yeah, she was ugly but she pounded like a pro. So it isn’t always what it seems. Then again, I would never have married her.
If not marriage, then what about a long-term relationship? Over again to Tyrone:
A good woman who has reparable shortcomings is still a good option for an LTR. Fugly is a whole different animal.
But if you marry one of them, Tyrone adds, make sure you have a contingency plan!
My wife knows if she ever lets herself go, talks about divorce, whatever that pisses me off enough to leave, I will simply disappear into the night. No arguments or emotions, it will be a complete coup de main. There won’t be anyone around to serve papers to. I’ll be overseas in an undisclosed location screwing LBFMs.
In case you don’t already know, LBFM is short for Little Brown Fucking Machines, a term of art to refer to Asian women (frequently underage) sought out by sex tourists — which should be sufficient to outline Tyrone’s sophisticated moral principles. He continues:
I say this with no emotion or bravado, just let her know its a fact that she must deal with. Marriage is like defense policy, the best defense is a good offense. Strike first, strike to kill. Identify a location and buy yourself some property there, so you have somewhere to go. Move enough money there to live well until you can start a bar or whatever to live. Plan this for a few years in advance if need be. Life is too short to be some stupid broad’s wage slave.
How charming!
Heartiste really has a way of bringing out the best in people!
In Britain, one of the few Conservative politicians who’s surprisingly popular with people of opposing views is Kenneth Clarke (the current Justice Minister), and one of the reasons is that he so clearly doesn’t give a fuck what other people think about his various lifestyle choices – he smokes, he drinks beer, he’s a fan of traditional jazz, and while I think he’s roughly the same age as his wife (they met as fellow students), she looks a fair bit older and not remotely like anyone’s idea of a trophy partner.
But they’ve been married nearly half a century, so I daresay it’s working out pretty well for them.
@kyrie
MGTOW are a joke. Not because I want to make fun of virgin, or celibates, involuntary or not. I don’t, because there is nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of people (some who are feminists by the way) who do what you say, who throw away conventions, who quit dating, who don’t marry, who don’t have sex. But they don’t feel the need to tell it over and over to people who don’t care – and to people they shouldn’t care about – They don’t call themselves genius for doing such things. They don’t make crappy over-used matrix references over and over. They don’t cry for attention.
I am in complete disagreement with how you define MGTOW. Some MGTOW men quit dating altogether. Some MGTOW men refuse to marry but have girlfriends.
A good MGTOW friend of mine has been dating a woman for a few weeks now.
He recently expressed to her that he is part of the MGTOW movement.
What I am saying is MGTOW could be however a man lives his life. Since men have been raised in society to always seek a females approval, and be chivalrous, MGTOW is a radical concept of a men saying “no” to being controlled by women and “going their own way”, irregardless of dating status. Of course, the one absolute is that 100% of MGTOW men would say no to the institution of marriage.
Great, because they would make abusive husbands.
Problem is, JTK, that when you are having a romantic relationship with someone, you are kind of seeking that person’s approval — that’s sort of the nature of the whole thing, you know? How does MGHOW dating work, anyway? Always do things that the woman you are dating won’t approve of? Like, no kissing or whatever? Say when your MGHOW friend is having sex with his girlfriend, and she appears to enjoy it, does he immediately punch her in the face or do anything else to make her NOT enjoy it? You know, so as to avoid her approval? Or if they are watching a movie and she’s enjoying it, does he immediately stop it and switch to something she hopefully will hate? I mean, is it like a mirror image of normal dating, where you go out of your way to hurt and abuse the person you are dating? Sure seems like it.
@Kendra
My experience is different. A Great Aunt of mine who is 74 in a retirement community has said her and here friends bemoan the lack of men to date. Men die younger than women, and the few existing men at the retirement community, all want to date 25 year old women.
Lets face it, if what someone women say here is true that women are considered equally attractive in societie’s eyes, why is plastic surgery such as facelifts, a multi million dollar industry in our culture?
If men are as interested in sex and dating in their older years as women are, why artificial medications like viagra so rampant these day?. The fact is mens hormonal levels and desire does decrease as men hit their 30’s, while womens increase. which makes it easier for men to become MGTOW
Something that’s defined mostly as “just so you know, ladies, I don’t care what you think!” isn’t a political movement, it’s just sexism.
A particularly childish manifestation of sexism, too. Are you all still mad at your mommies?
You know that you’re winning over absolutely nobody, right, JTK? The more you post here the more ridiculous your “movement” looks. I’ve gone from viewing it as an actual rejection of women for misogynistic reasons to viewing it as a giant collective tantrum designed to try to punish women for not kissing your asses on the basis of your comments alone. Great job!
Good grief…JTK is still here? I really think he’s trolling for the lulz. Something about the way he words everything gives me the impression he’s not actually taking seriously what he says.
Oh well in any case he’s still more amusing than NWO in my opinion.
@Cassandra
You know that you’re winning over absolutely nobody, right, JTK?
I am not trying to win anything here. As I wrote previously, Feminism has won the battle, many MRA’s have woken up and realized this and have opted out of the battlefield.
http://captaincapitalism.blogspot.com/2011/10/you-started-it-but-well-finish-it.html
Of course here on manboobz I will only comment if the topics or comments have to do with MGTOW. If a lot of the commenters begin to comment on MGTOW men, I will comment. MGTOW is a topic of interest to me because I am one and can offer input.
And I have to go to bed soon too…everyone else promise to make him cry and whine some more for me, OK? I’m finding his increasingly pathetic attempts to justify his position rather amusing.
As we keep saying, my friend, it is long past time for you to go your own way for real. Fly, be free! “I’m going my own way” doesn’t count for much if you never actually leave.
Run along now.
Oh and JTK, if you are being serious, what do you think of women “going their own way” so to speak? less women are getting married nowadays as well. Seems like a lot of us don’t really care much about it either, so we’re all in agreement then. Well, those of us who are opting out of marriage anyway.
goodnight Cassandra, I can’t sleep so I’m posting on here until I can haha
I was serious about the going away party, by the way. Surely there must be a site somewhere that we can use to print the No Vaginas hat for him.
If you say you’re going your own way but continue to date and/or fuck women, you’re not actually going your own way at all, you’re just declaring your intent to treat the people you date like shit in advance.
“Fuck you, bitches! We don’t need you!
…We’re still on for dinner at your house on Friday, right? It’s just that I don’t know how to cook for myself, and I’m hoping that if I fuck you then you’ll also do my laundry.”
JTK, let me repeat that. Feminism does not want you to marry. Feminism does not want you to date, or to have sex. Feminism also doesn’t want you to not marry, not date or not have sex, because feminism is not the same as society’s or family’s expectations. Feminism does not want you to hold the door for women, or to buy your girlfriend jewelry.
Feminism want you to act as a decent and responsible human being and not to treat women as less (or more for that matter) than men just because they are women.
There are single feminists. There are non-married feminists. There are anti-marriage feminists. There are no MGTOW feminists, because it implies so much whining and look-at-me-look-at-me-I’m-so-great-because-I-don’t-marry-and-wymmyn-sucksing
BTW, Feminism hasn’t won the battle yet, since misogyny is still alive and well.
I keep hoping you’ll go your own way and stop waiting for cookies that will never come and that you don’t want 🙂 but in the meantime, please use quotes.
@Cassandra
WGTOW? Hmmm haven’t given it too much thought? Are you one? You tell me what WGTOW is? I guess a Feminist like Betty Friedan may have been WGTOW given she rejected Societies norms at the time.
I think it is more of a radical concept for a man to be unmarried. Bachelors that are happy, and have some type of control over their hormones. Happy Bachelors that can cook, and clean, and don’t need a woman to take care of them. Very Radical concept indeed.
I wonder what the friend’s date thought when he declared he was MGTOW? I thought the whole point of it was to stay away from women? I dunno, it kinda sounds more like what JTK is talking about is establishing boundaries. Its perfectly fine for anyone to say they won’t let themselves be walked all over or controlled in a relationship, but when he says it’s about saying no to controlling women, I think he forgot to tack on “I do the controlling in this relationship cuz I’m the man” at the end there.
Anyway…I refuse to date anyone who wont build me a hobbit home http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2011-12-21/man-builds-fairy-tale-home-for-his-family-for-only-3000/
Now now MRAs, I’m not actually serious. I don’t requite a man to build me a home. That is a pretty sweet home though. He should have worked on The Hobbit. Also maybe it’s just me, but his wife looks a bit older than him? Unthinkable!
Holy shit, I had no idea Hugh Jackman was a chubby chaser.
“I think it is more of a radical concept for a man to be unmarried.”
That’s a joke, right? You actually think not marrying is a radical thing in 2011?
MRAL, does it bother you that what Hugh Jackman’s wife looks like? Do you think less of him because of that?
@ Quackers
Taking of the Red pill today is more radical than WGTOW.
Men are more controlled by women much more than women are controlled by men. Men have been totally controlled by women as young boys, adolescents, and young adults. Even as husbands men are babied and controlled by women. Men have been controlled by women much more than women have been under any type of control by men. MGTOW has answers for men for these such issues, which escalates mens self worth.
How does MGHOW dating work, anyway?
Well, Amused how does “normal” or “regular” dating work?
No, not really. It’s not my business.
If the PUAs want to justify it, they could say that at a certain level, alpha alpha primes reach “Alpha Nirvana”, where, maybe, they’re at such a level that it all becomes meaningless. And if anyone is there, it’s Hugh Jackman. I remember watching X-Men Origins and I’m like, some of those muscles have GOT to be CGI.
@
Quackers
I wonder what the friend’s date thought when he declared he was MGTOW?
All I know is they are still together. He probably told her what MGTOW is about as opposed to all the damn feminist MGTOW hating on the internet. He may of told her how difficult it really is to be MGTOW and how taking the red pill as an MGTOW is hard. I mean blue pill is everywhere in our media telling men they must have a woma to be happy.
The path we walk is a hard one, how difficult is it to be MGTOW Nation? I’m asking this semi-rhetorically because of what I see on TV and in the media everyday. It’s hard to refrain from disliking or even hating women in return for many of them hating me.
I feel like I’m living on some alien planet, the constant attacks on men in the media encompassing all forms such as the putdowns, the innuendos and the outright insults.
It’s also hard not to throw up when seeing all the women targeted programming in TV. I’ve noticed that on Saturday mornings the programming on Cable is especially bad. Its wall to wall renovation and makeover shows, constantly broadcasting the message that your home needs to be as current and extravagant as possible, that women constantly need a new wardrobe or even plastic surgery, not to please men of course, but simply to have the right to feel good about themselves(me me me). Of course who pays for all these renos and makeovers? husbands and boyfriends of course.
On Friday evenings there is a solid line up of “smart, sophisticated” man bashing shows on TV, all you have to do is watch for 5 minutes and you’ll get the idea that life is about tricking, using and abusing men and that women are smarter and more deserving.
I’m tempted to discontinue cable TV altogether but there are a few good documentary/science/sports channels I like to watch but I’m not sure how much longer that will last.
Yep, these days it’s hard not to get angry with all the anti-male crap floating around in the media and having to deal with it out in public is sickening as well. Indeed the MGTOW Nation path many of us men have chosen is a hard one, it’s hard not to hate women in return, but that’s precisely the test we need to pass. Not to adopt the victim mentality and hate mindset a lot of feminists possess. We MGTOW men do not let our spirits become poisoned by our current environement, we remain happy bachelors.
@JTK
Examples? I don’t doubt that there are controlling women, but history itself proves everything you said is completely false.
Also there is no actual WGTOW, but there are more women refusing to marry. It’s not a radical concept, but when women are constantly told they need to be beautiful and snag a man, then yea it is something. Look it all the shit on TV that has to do with weddings, look at all the movies that deal with women and their romantic issues. You think women aren’t pressured to find companionship? look at how MRAs and MGTOWs shame the women they find unacceptable by calling them cat ladies.
People in general just need to learn that they can’t obtain happiness and self actualization from another person. This isn’t a gender thing, it’s a people thing.
Alpha Nirvana
Prime
Alpha Alpha Prime (often a “Lone Alphawolf”)
Alpha Alpha (often a “Pack Leader Alpha”)
Alpha
Lesser Alpha (most Alpha Manginas are at this level, referred to as Lesser Alpha Manginas)
Borderline Alpha
Greater Beta (“Table Scrap Beta”)
Beta Neutral (“True Neutral”)
Lower Beta
Lesser Beta (“Cruel Beta”, for the habit of actively putting down Omegas)
Greater Omega
Omega (“The Fat Ghetto”)
Lesser Omega
I should work for Heartiste!