Sady Doyle of Tiger Beatdown fame has a great piece up at In These Times on the ways in which the Internet has helped to highlight virulent and violent misogyny — and inspire effective feminist pushback. It’s actually kind of … inspiring? (That’s a word I don’t use often!) Here’s the opening:
When a history of 21st-century feminist activism is someday written, 2011 may be labeled Year Rape Broke. Sexual assault and harassment have, of course, always been key feminist concerns. But in 2011, sexual violence, exploitation, or intimidation were part of nearly every major story that fell under the heading of “women’s issues”–and the activism against it has been particularly widespread, focused and effective.
As we enter this renaissance of sexual assault awareness, it’s worth considering the ways in which new media has informed it–and, indeed, perhaps even made it possible. …
You can read the rest on the In These Times website.
Full disclosure: I worked at ITT for a couple of years in the 90s (yes, I’m old), and Sady says some nice things about Man Boobz in the piece.
Ullere, you are aware there’s no gun to your head forcing you to say “Season’s Greetings”?
You’re totally free to also say “Happy Holidays!” “Merry Winter!” or “Joyous Solstice!”
Guys, you don’t think that instead of discussing of PC, you should talk about MRAs ? 🙂
For example, there’s a woman at Hookingupsmart that has a daughter that dated a guy in the MGTOW :
And these guys want to restore patriarchy …
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2011/12/19/hookinguprealities/hookup-culture-rightly-laid-at-feminisms-feet/#comment-83770
@NullPointer What’s the point of saying anything at all if you don’t care about the person’s reaction?
I believe PC is used to close down debate… etc Don’t really want to repeat myself but you get the jist.
Saying you too is fine, but responding with Merry Christmas is fine too. Is this really so important?
‘I have also been wished a happy Diwali and a happy Rosh Hashanah (obviously when those holidays were happening), and I thought that was cool.’
I’d probably feel pretty cool too, just from knowing that the person greeting me is involved in practices I have never witnessed. Knowing there are huge worlds out there I have never experience is pretty exciting. But you didn’t feel weird, or oppressed or whatever just because you didn’t happen to celebrate or believe in their practice?
‘But I could see how it would get annoying for someone who is not even slightly Christian to hear Merry Christmas all the time’
Well I could see how it would be annoying for someone who is incredibly Anti-social to hear ‘hello’ all the time, but thats just tough I reckon. Say happy holidays if you like, but I don’t like the implication in my country that if you don’t say something bland and PC that it is somehow intolerant.
@Holly Pervocracy Yes Holly I’m aware. However by saying I feel pressure to say Seasons greetings instead of Merry Christmas in my country you responded with the Fuck you list. Are you aware that your reaction is the same reaction that people occassionally get for saying Merry Christmas? I linked the explosm comic, the hostile reactions people get for not being PC even over banal things like a seasonal hello is nonsense and stifles society. Thats right Holly your fuck yous are just another in the long list of people being hostile for no reason.
Although you did say Merry Christmas to MRAL, so maybe it’s just me your hostile to and not my desire to say Merry Christmas.
Ullere, you can’t proudly post rape jokes, brag that you’re “un-PC” (which is just a fancy politicized way of saying “rude”), and then expect love and acceptance back. Love and acceptance are “politically correct” and I thought you weren’t into that.
Sorry I’m not being politically correct to you!
‘not saying merry Christmas and instead saying seasons greetings.’
I stated in my first post that not saying exactly what you would like to say because you wish to be PC is boring. you responding with the Fuck yous. Yes you are free to say whatever you want but look up this thread there are people on this forum who say happy holidays because they don’t want to offend/make people feel excluded. Yet when someone greets them with a ‘happy Rosh Hashanah ‘ they have no problem with it.
Ullere, Iook, I’m not a fan of excessive political correctness, but I’ve never been told “fuck you” for walking down the street and wishing somebody a merry Christmas. I just can’t help but think that this is an entirely hypothetical debate.
“Happy Holidays” isn’t a politically correct term, it’s just expedient, because there are a lot of, you know, holidays this time of year. It *is* kind of awkward to wish a Jewish person a merry Christmas, because they don’t celebrate it.
Oh no, a war on Christmas! People probably want to steal my presents, knock down my Christmas tree, and spit on the gingerbread cookies! This is oppression!!!
/sarcasm
I would have a problem with someone saying “Happy Kwanzaa” or whatever. I wouldn’t flip out, but I’d think it was a bit presumptuous.
Then I’d move on.
@Holly Pervocracy | My george Carwin video was actually a joke about a rapist not about rape. I posted it not to make a rape joke but to use George Carwins words on PC. There are some people.. who want to tell you what you can and cannot say… ok you can talk about that but not joke about that…’
Again Holly your not this daft. I never bragged about anything, only said that PC shuts down debate. Now as you said you are not being PC to me and we have had this debate, wonderous that it is. If you had been PC and I had been PC then this whole thread would never have happened, what a boring world that would be. I also don’t expect love and acceptance, although as a person I do need love, but I don’t really mind if I get it on Man Boobz.
I wouldn’t say “fuck you” to “Merry Christmas.” It is Christmas, among other things, and I hope everyone has a merry one. 🙂
I say “fuck you” to people who think that their right to Christmas is being oppressed or that it’s somehow “PC” for other holidays to ever be acknowledged.
I’m sorry, is the implication that Merry Christmas is somehow a bold and exiting phrase compared to Happy Holidays or Seasons Greetings? Really? Maybe you shouldn’t say it around people with weak hearts then. You don’t want them to get over-excited. There’ll be a heart attack epidemic on the 25th, I bet.
You know, I’m going to buck the trend this year and say Happy Holidays just to offend people who get all worked up over not hearing Merry Christmas. Being PC is the new un-PC!
Haha, George Carwin.
But you don’t want a debate. You just want to be congratulated for your un-PC-ness.
Debate has not been shut down–we’re having one!–and somehow you aren’t happy.
Right, Holly, I wasn’t saying you would. I find this kind of “complaint” to be really circlejerky and theoretical. Sure, the mass media is kind of PC for mass appeal… but no one is going to curbstomp you for wishing someone a merry Christmas in the damn mall.
The ultimate problem here, and the real reason I’m upset, is the implication that no one really celebrates Chanukah or anything else. That the populace would be quite happy to acknowledge Christmas as the One True Holiday if it weren’t for the darn PC Police.
That’s what bugs me–the undercurrent of “but, c’mon, this is silly because we’re all Christian here, right?”
Like I said, I’ve got nothing against “Merry Christmas” or any of its trappings. I just packed Christmas presents in my bag and I’m going to Midnight Mass with my partner’s family. But I’m willing to do that because they respect my religion and I respect theirs. Not because Christmas was the real holiday all along.
I’m yelling at Ullere, not you, MRAL. We’re cool. 🙂
@Mral ‘Ullere, Iook, I’m not a fan of excessive political correctness’
My man thats perfect, that what I said at the start. Saying PC can shut down debate and makes the world more boring. I don’t mean lets run amuck with racist chants, just that being PC or as you say ‘excessively PC’ can make things boring.
‘“Happy Holidays” isn’t a politically correct term, it’s just expedient, because there are a lot of, you know, holidays this time of year’
It is if you’d prefer to say something else but choose not to because you may offend, or because your worried about the fuck yous.
‘It *is* kind of awkward to wish a Jewish person a merry Christmas, because they don’t celebrate it.’
See I think this is what causes exclusion, I would be happy for someone to wish me any seasonal greeting, it’s not a big deal. Would it also be awkward to invite a non christian to a chirstmas party? Seeing how they don’t celebrate it. You said you would feel someone was being presumptious for wishing you something you might not celebrate but I don’t know if your being totally honest with yourself. Unless you really analyse qwhat peoples motives are for speaking to you I would hope you’d just say You too, or indeed Happy whatever back. Is it so bad that someone who is celebrating something you aren’t involved in gives you a greeting. If a local football(I’m not sure how big sports are over there whereever you live are) team had one a trophy/season and one of their fans greeted you with a The SOCKS RULE WHOOO yould you really think hes being presumptious if you don’t follow the team? Or would you just go WHOO and be happy for him and his joy? I’d personally just be stoked for the guy.
@ Kendra ‘‘And frankly, this whole “war on Christmas” bullshit’ Yeah I absolutely agree, however when I used Merry Christmas as an example I was run over with the wave of ‘hey you can’t say that because… Fuck you, it’s Chanukah right now.’
@ Holly we are having a debate because as you have pointed out neither of us are being PC to each other.
‘The ultimate problem here, and the real reason I’m upset, is the implication that no one really celebrates Chanukah or anything else. That the populace would be quite happy to acknowledge Christmas as the One True Holiday if it weren’t for the darn PC Police.’
Fair enough. I think the people of those respective believes should use their own respective belief’s greeting. Instead of the PC seasonal etc. In this very thread people have said the reason they don’t say Merry Christmas is because they don’t want people to feel excluded or weird. It’s noble to consider other peoples feelings but it’s cowardly to be PC because you might offend with a seasonal Greeting. Really a Merry Christmas doesn’t do anyone any harm, its not a hate word nor a slander. Saying you are free to say what you like is fine, but in this very thread and in the wider world people are choosing to not say what the like because they might hurt feelings.
I don’t think we are so far apart on this issue, or more accurately you aren’t addressing the same issue I was.
@Holly Pervocracy
“oogy boogy we’re going to jew up your christmas
and that is the worst thing because it’s really christmas and not really anything else
oogy boogy”
—————
Our State religion
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/national-menorah-to-be-lit-near-white-house-in-washington-for-1st-night-of-hanukkah/2011/12/20/gIQASqIi6O_story.html
I didn’t notice a “national” nativity scene being promoted this year? Did you? Where was the ACLU?
Wanna see what happens if you try and put a nativity scene on the white house lawn?
http://global.christianpost.com/news/minister-faces-arrest-for-white-house-nativity-display-65423/
—————
For all your protestation of being an atheist you sure jump on the semitic supremacy bandwagon whenever you get a chance.
Well, oogy boogy. I’m gonna Christian up your precious hanukkah. Time to start writing letters to the ACLU and get that atrocity torn down off the white house lawn. Seperation of church and State, princess.
I told you yesterday, if you mock anything about Christians, I mock anything about Jews. Rename the menorah the money tree! Don’t like princess? How about you Amused? Sure looks like “Cultural Marxism” to me. Nativity scene = arrest. Menorah = “National menorah.”
Oogy boogy ladies! You don’t “tolerate” my faith on the white house lawn, I’m sure as hell gonna lobby to get that fucking thing ripped down.
“I think the people of those respective believes should use their own respective belief’s greeting.”
Merry Spend-Time-With-Family-Watching-Doctor-Who-And-Eating-Obscene-Amounts-Of-Food Day probably isn’t going to catch on if I’m honest.
I believe PC is used to close down debate… etc
Seasonal greetings are “debate” now? Damn, how do you feel about people who tell you to have a great day?
I’d probably feel pretty cool too, just from knowing that the person greeting me is involved in practices I have never witnessed.
They’re holidays. You eat a lot and spend time with people you care about. “Practices I have never witnessed” sounds like you think you’re talking to an exotic zoo animal you could never understand instead of a person. I’m talking about my boyfriend, the guys I share an office with, friends I see every few weeks.
But you didn’t feel weird, or oppressed or whatever just because you didn’t happen to celebrate or believe in their practice?
No, but I also don’t live in a culture where all the normal people are Hindu or Jewish and Christianity is exotic and suspect.
I don’t like the implication in my country that if you don’t say something bland and PC that it is somehow intolerant.
I don’t think “Merry Christmas” is intolerant. I think HAPPY HOLIDAYS IS FOR TERRORCOMMUNISTS GRR ROAR” is intolerant.
@ Caraz Merry Spend-Time-With-Family-Watching-Doctor-Who-And-Eating-Obscene-Amounts-Of-Food-after-buying-gifts-to-show-how-much-you-love-your-family Day probably isn’t going to catch on if I’m honest. Has a ring to it actually.
Still your comment made me laugh.
@NullPointer Come on now your being silly. Seasonal greetings where an example of how PC can make things bland, not that seasonal greetings were a debate. Go back earlier in the thread and read my original post adressing PC.
‘I don’t think “Merry Christmas” is intolerant. I think HAPPY HOLIDAYS IS FOR TERRORCOMMUNISTS GRR ROAR” is intolerant.’
I said everyone saying the same thing is boring, not intolerant. Really your post is stupid.
One of the biggest problems with Christianity is its relationship to martyrdom.
In its early days, when Christians were a persecuted minority in the Roman empire, the persecution itself became a part of the religious narrative (bolstered, of course, by the idea that when you get martyred, you are following in Jesus’ footsteps). So deeply ingrained did martyrdom get in the Christian tradition, that it became as necessary to being accepted into the fold as baptism — you weren’t truly Christian until you proved yourself by dying or at least getting tortured a little bit for your faith.
For the first 325 years, this wasn’t a problem. But then Emperor Constantine converted, Christianity became the state religion, and all of a sudden, all these downtrodden Christians became the elite. Thanks for notn’, Constantine!! How the hell do you get martyred now??
At this moment of truth, Christians developed a substitute — monasticism. Sure, these Romans will no longer strip you naked and flog you, but you can always flog yourself, right? Or you can devise other tortures for yourself, such as wearing a hair shirt, not bathing, eating gruel, living in the desert, etc. As long as you undergo physical suffering for no reason, you satisfy the martyrdom aspect of the Christian faith.
And for many centuries, that worked. Alas, then came the Protestants, and they pretty much did away with monasticism and all that punishing one’s sinful flesh thing. This was no problem at first, because Protestants were in the minority, and Catholics frequently tortured and burned them for heresy. Martyrdom requirement fulfilled, yay!!
Of course, once religious persecution died down, and Protestants became the ruling majority in certain countries, and Catholics stopped wearing hairs hirts and stuff, this resurrected the dilemma: How the hell do you live as a true Christian when you can no longer fucking get martyred for your faith?
The only solution is, obviously, self-delusion. Ignore the fact that you are the default majority and that public holidays and religious displays and merchants all cater to you, and that you hold virtually all of the political power, and just pretend that every time you hear someone say “Happy Holidays”, it’s exactly like being raped by a baboon in the Coliseum in front of a cheering crowd.
So, Ullere, you may not be Christian, as you say, but you are buying into the mentality of necessary martyrdom for faith. It’s not about political correctness or lack of it — it’s about the deep psychological need that exists in predominantly Christian countries to feel like you are suffering for your faith. Even if you are not.