Christmas came early for the MRAs this year. Earlier this week, a generous soul calling himself AgentOrange posted a 165 MB present online for them, an assortment of super-secret internet postings from a private forum connected to the RadFem Hub, which Mr. Orange collected by bravely going behind enemy lines and, er, screencapping a bunch of shit. As the OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE declared:
[B]oth feminists and MRAs alike, have been anxiously awaiting the promised complete files of screen shots and associated materials collected by Agent Orange.
These files are apparently so vile and incendiary that Mr. Orange has deemed it necessary to reveal the personal information of some of the RadFemHub commenters. Not to encourage anyone to stalk or harass or harm them, just so that those offended by them can do whatever it is people do when personal info is leaked on the internet that doesn’t involve stalking or harassing or harming them. Send them postcards?
But in any case there is no reason whatsoever to think that a group of really really really angry people who love making threats on the internet and think their opponents are as bad as Hitler could ever do anything that would be in any way problematic.
So, you might ask, what dastardly secrets do these new files disclose? Oddly, the PRESS RELEASE doesn’t actually specify. The AgentOrange website doesn’t say either. And the 165 MB download is just a bunch of files with no explanation.
But I have spent some time going through these files myself in a completely random manner, which is evidently what AgentOrange expects everyone who downloads the files to do. To be perfectly honest, I haven’t spent that much time on this. I’ve really been quite busy with other things. But I have spent some time. More than twenty minutes, anyway.
So let me share with you some preliminary findings.
Here, straight from the AgentOrange files, are some RadFems discussing a news story about a male midwife who thinks that mothers should embrace the pain of childbirth as a “rite of passage.” (Click on the teensy image on the right to get it full-sized.)
Apparently some of those RadFems don’t think this is a good idea! One of them says:
Does he even know what uterine cramps/contractions even feel like?
Another adds:
I read that and rolled my eyes. … If only it were possible to subject mister midwife (my ass) to the joyous pain of childbirth. I guess a swift kick to the balls is as close as he’s ever going to come to it.
Clearly suggesting that a male midwife suffer pain similar to what he suggests women should suffer is nothing short of GENOCIDE!
But wait, there’s more! Another woman writes:
There is no reason why women should have to endure pain like this in this day and age.
That sounds exactly like something HITLER would have said! (If you replace “women” with “Jews” and “no reason” with “every reason.”)
Still another adds:
This is phenomenally stupid, and completely out of step with current pain management theory and procedures.
Is there no end to this feminazi depravity!?
Oh, but there’s more, much more. In this thread — click the image to the right — the evil RadFems complain about guys trying to pick them up in a creepy manner. One of the ladies suggests that a good way to get the guys to leave you alone is to tell them you’re a widow.
You see now that feminism is all about DECEPTION!
Maybe it should be called Deceptionism!
Ok, ok, just one more. In a thread called “I’m mad as hell” — right over there on the right again — one commenter complains about getting a computer virus.
She’s so mad she says she’s even considering downloading Ubuntu and forgoing all Microsoft products, which are frequently targets of viruses! What? Huh? DOES NOT COMPUTE. BZZZZZZZ. LADY USING LINUX ERROR ERROR. *$^*$()*%(*$$$$$$$$. EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN.
CARRIER.
REBOOTING.
FLUSHING CACHE.
Ok. I’m back. Another commenter there says something about castrating guys who write viruses.
That does seem a little excessive. Though I don’t think she means it literally.
I will return to this topic later, after I recover.
In the meantime, if you want to see the most ridiculous comments on the matter from Reddit’s Men’s Rightsers, you can find some of them collected together here. Among the highlights:
This isn’t public shaming, its outing criminals that are planning your genocide.
A story of a plan of naziesque proportions is about to broken.
I think we can all agree that feminism inevitably heads down the road of male genocide.
MRAs, more melodramatic than emo kids.
Oh, and by the way, two of the Reddit quotes above come from a fellow known on Reddit as Sigi1, but who may be more familiar to Man Boobzers as Eoghan. Without clicking on the links, can you guess which two?
This post contains:
“…and give us a link to a forum whose official definition for feminist is “a sexist female-supremacist who advocate preferential treatment of women over men or possibly someone who does believes in true equality and is miseducated on what feminism is truly about” i.e. “evil or stupid”.”
I didn’t give the link – manboobz did, I’m simply referencing it. I judge feminism on it’s actions – not it’s claims. Things like VAWA demonstrate that feminist pushes for women to be treated considerably superior to men.
Anyway, I’m out – have a nice day.
I didn’t give the link – manboobz did, I’m simply referencing it. I judge feminism on it’s actions – not it’s claims. Things like VAWA demonstrate that feminist pushes for women to be treated considerably superior to men.
The problem is with how you define “superior”. MRA’s invariably treat any erosion of male privilege as women becoming “superior”, because they see equality as some kind of a separate-but-equal deal with a division of labor: men make decisions, define things and give orders, while women follow and obey. Willingly, of course, so we don’t call it “submission”. Any woman who refuses to follow, of course, is a female supremacist committed to making women “superior”.
And so: women make up 10% of elected officials? Oh, no, women are taking over the government! Women make 40% of college faculty? Obviously, an evil plot to “feminize” education. Women make $0.78 to men’s $1.00? Well, clearly, men have to bend over backwards to make a buck, whereas women get their $0.78 just for batting their lashes.
A case in point: a few days ago I read an article which dealt with a backlash against the trend of married women keeping their maiden names. You would think that when a woman chooses not to forego her identity, both she and her husband get the same thing: she gets to keep her name, he gets to keep his. Neither is required to symbolically cut him or herself off from their premarital existence. And yet, there was no shortage of comments about how women who keep their names are hysterical feminazis who refuse to honor their husbands and commit to them. Plus, of course, comments about women trying to be “superior” and predictably vague ruminations about the supposed “differences” between men and women that supposedly mandate that women have less autonomy, less identity, less opportunity, less leisure, etc. This is by far not the only example of MRA’s claiming, essentially, that any time women aspire to having as much dignity, as much opportunity, and as much fulfillment in life as men are considered to be entitled to, women are trying to establish themselves as “superior”.
@Amused
Great comment. It’s amazing how making an important personal choice about your identity still has a bunch of men tut-tutting in 2011. Her husbands honor? what about honoring the wife’s freedom of choice in what name she chooses? It really makes you wonder why the men leaving those comments place such importance on taking away women’s identities. Do they view marriage as a partnership between two human beings, or where the wife is now the husbands personal property?
Female dominated society my ass.
Hey, Fake Marxist, guess what? When I got married I kept my own name.
Horrors! Evil emasculating bitches! It’s like being a man who beats his wife, symbolically speaking!*
* If you pretend that you’re a deluded, batshit crazy misogynist who’s really bad at making analogies. Whatever his day job is, I hope it doesn’t involve much writing.
Wrong. Despite the name, the provisions of the Violence against Women Act apply equally to both men and women who are victims of domestic violence. For example, battered husbands can apply for an immigrant visa petition without their abusive wives’ knowledge if they want to divorce and escape the abuse but are afraid of being deported. This information comes from The US Citizen and Immigration Services. The truth is that men can receive help under VAWA as long as they meet eligibility requirements.
Let’s see how long he’s able to stick to the flounce! Any bets?
Seriously though, dull concern troll is dull.
And his name is misleading, too! It’s like those folks who call themselves “pro-life”, even though “anti-choice” would be way more accurate.
I think “FauxAntiMisandry” or “MarxProMisogyny” would be better choices.
That’s true Kollege, but nobody like “anti-“. For accuracy’s sake, they should be called pro-foetus’ life. Because a pro-lifer (if we let plant out of the deal) should be anti-death penalty, anti-war, vegan, pro-free-health-care, etc… Anti abortion or anti pill should be at the bottom of this list.
@Amused
“And so: women make up 10% of elected officials? Oh, no, women are taking over the government! Women make 40% of college faculty? Obviously, an evil plot to “feminize” education. Women make $0.78 to men’s $1.00? Well, clearly, men have to bend over backwards to make a buck, whereas women get their $0.78 just for batting their lashes.”
If the percentage and relative position of women in power translates to the relative power of women as a whole than black men are the most privileged group of people in U.S. society since Obama is black. Since that most definitely isn’t the case your analogy has no merit.
The wage gap myth has be debunked so many times only the most idiotic of women even attempt to repeat it.
A woman in human resources for a construction company will not get the same pay as a man who risks his life doing the actual construction.
Women work less amount of time than men. This is a fact. You will not get the same overall pay for working less time. You will not get the same consideration for advancement when you work less. You will be judged on merit, extra time working shows initiative.
Men work on average 5 to 7 years longer than women, which is why they die 5 to 7 years earlier than women.
Also, “Women can “trade up” to the larger Social Security benefit if the husband dies, since you receive 100 percent of his full retirement at your full retirement age.”
The reverse isn’t true. The vast majority of social security is paid by men due to more hours worked every year and more years worked. The vast majority of social security goes to women who work less hours per year and less years. They also live longer due to not being worked into the grave, consequently they collect more both in terms of yearly collection and years of collecting.
———————
You’re either stupid, intentionally stupid, or simply a liar trying to continue the myth that women are victims of oppression. Women were never oppressed. Modern day women are privileged above men in every realm of society. Stop your irrational hatred. Take a day off.
———————
@Kendra, the bionic mommy
“Wrong. Despite the name, the provisions of the Violence against Women Act apply equally to both men and women who are victims of domestic violence.”
Facts bear out that VAWA is only woman-centric. Every independent study show women commit non recipricol DV at a rate of 2 to 1 and women commit the vast majority of child abuse. Yet all monies either go to womens safe projects or to educate men to be non-violent towards women.
Mandatory arrest and predominant agressor theory are used for blaming men for all DV. Since women commit half of DV they should be half of arrests in overall domestic disputes yet they make up a minisclue portion of arrests.
The official position of VAWA and I-VAWA is when a man commits violence against a woman he is trying to control the woman. When a woman commits violence aganist a man she is trying to control the situation. Her violence is good and justified. His violence is bad and controlling.
VAWA is a hate law.
This is VAWA from the UN site.
http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/egm/vaw-gp-2005/docs/experts/goldfarb.legaldomain.pdf
Here’s just one small quote. Everything about VAWA is an infringement on a mans constitutional rights. VAWA is hatred of men.
Civil orders of protection, also known as protection orders or restraining
orders, are a major innovation in the states legal response to domestic violence.
An order of protection is a court order that prohibits an offender from further
abusing the victim and may set other limits on his behavior, such as evicting him
from the family home, forbidding him to contact the victim, and prohibiting him
from possessing firearms. A number of features make these orders particularly
useful. An order of protection can be obtained in a self-contained legal proceeding,
without initiating any other legal action such as a divorce or criminal prosecution.
A temporary order can be granted on an emergency basis, without notification to or
the presence of the accused; in some jurisdictions, proceedings to obtain a
temporary order are available seven days a week, twenty-four hours per day. A
final order can then be obtained at a later hearing. The procedure is usually
designed to be simple enough that a victim can manage without an attorney,
although legal representation is helpful in obtaining the desired outcome.15 A
violation of a temporary or final order is a crime.
In the above quote from VAWA you’ll notice that the word “him.” is the only word used as the aggressor of a crime.
Also notice… “A temporary order can be granted on an emergency basis, without notification to or the presence of the accused”
This means exactly what it says. A woman can have a man evicted from his home with nothing but a phone call. He cannot face his accuser. He does not need to even be notified. He has been found guilty. He is punished. This is a hate law. You support this law. You support the hatred of men.
Whatever, NWO. Come back when you have new “facts.”
You just ducked right into that punch lol.
That’s exactly the point, dumbass. There is no gynocracy, just like there is no Blackocracy. If there was, reality would reflect it Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton notwithstanding. It doesn’t.
And all that crap you mentioned about men working longer hours, not leaving the work force etc? They control for that. Because they are professionals and because these studies have been repeated by many, many people who routinely think of other things to control for, if only to get grant money (if you want to be as cynical as possible about it). And they aren’t comparing human resource workers with construction workers. They compare construction workers with construction workers, or other very similar jobs with similar pay. Jesus fucking christ do you think you’re the first person to think of this? Arrogant much?
Yet the effect does not go away. Further, it’s been decreasing over the decades. If it doesn’t exist at all then how is it decreasing over the same time that more women are responsible for doing the said research? Is there a conspiracy to make the effect look like it’s, um, reflecting reality?
That doesn’t mean the reason is “because men are EEEEVIL!”. It means a lot of things, including that some women might need to adjust their wage negotiating strategies.
For example: http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/5207.html
I know that’s going to be a tl;dr for you, but whatever. You can’t say I didn’t try…
He’s still on about VAWA?!
I thought he had gone on vacation or something. Seriously, Owly, just take a break!
Holly: I’m a pantheist.
…I worship cookware.
Then I must be a priest of pantheism… I sell cookware; and help people to get the cookware they need.
You’re mad they used “he” and “him” as gender neutral pronouns. Whenever I use the gender neutral pronouns “zie” and “hir”, though, you also complain. There is no pleasing you, NWO.
The predominant aggressor theory is about determining who is acting aggressively and not arresting a victim who tries to hit back in self defense. Again, this is gender neutral. Contrary to MRA dogma, domestic violence is not 50/50. The sources of those claims rely on misrepresenting studies that use the CFS, Conflict Tactics Scale. The very authors of the CFS do not agree with MRA’s that use their research to deny and minimize violence against women as mutual fighting. Another factor is that if a woman hits a man, she is the aggressor. If he uses disproportionate force in response, then he has escalated the fight and is guilty of a separate act of assault. There is a difference between self defense and escalation. If you’re confused about the difference, just ask and I’ll try to explain it to you.
Finally, I think it’s good that restraining orders can be used to keep an abuser away from hir victims. Why should the victims have to leave their own home when the abuser is the one who was wrong?
NWO: If Jesus, as head of the church (that selfsame church in that epistle) washed the feet of the disciples, then the woman ought to be the one being cared for.
You say you believe, but you also advoacte hatred, and violence, then turn around and pretend you are all sanctified, and better than other people because of it.
Never mind the stones you cast, despite your obvious sins. Belief isn’t magic, one must also practice.
Their ain’t a man alive that’s witnessed a woman do any kind of labor. Child labor is the limit of modern womens work ethic. Find me a woman with callouses on her hands. I dare ya.
I’m a man. I’m alive. I’ve seen lots of women do labor. I’ve even got photos of it. I’ve seen women fill sandbags (against fire, and against flood). I’ve seen women shovel shit: I’ve even seen them being paid to do it, and hired to do it again. I’ve swung pick and mattock and axe next to women who were clearing land and tilling it.
I’ve seen women milking cows. I’ve seen one knocked unconscious when a pasteuriser had a steam line break loose and club her upside the head.
My grandmother shoveled coal into the furnace, by spring she had callousses; and she was in her eighties when she decided to install electric heat.
You are, in this, as in so many other things, either a fool, or a liar. Regardless you are a caitiff and an knave. You may depend on this: Jesus, were he alive now, would be spending his time with you.
VAWA does not do this. VAWA is gender neutral. When you guys constantly repeat this stupid non-fact, it reveals your movement for the sad pity party it really is is.
i’m gonna see the woman who watched me when i was a baby tonight. she doesn’t come into atlanta much anymore, but she has to see the doctor today on account of she’s got limited mobility in her right arm as a result of years of doing farm labor.
i was out at her place last week. she lives on a couple of gorgeous acres in the country that she and her now deceased husband cleared themselves. and no, he didn’t do most of the work. he could work, but his movement was hampered as a result of a childhood bout of polio.
Is it bible quoting time again: John 11:35, Jesus Wept.
NWOMy new rule is, since there are Jewish folk on this blog. Mock a Christian and I cut lose with Jewish mockery. Fair enough? Cause I don’t like it. For all your empty words about respect ya sure don’t show any.
So bring it on folks!!!
Really? Ok… you are a self-professed christian. Fine. You are piss-poor one. Turning the other cheek, you won’t. Loving thine enemies? You won’t. Forgiving those who have harmed you, yea! to seventy times seven times? You won’t do it once.
Know you’re a christian by your love? I don’t think you’ve ever listened to the the song.
Sheeps and goats my man; there are those who will come to the final judgement, and they shall be numbered with the goats, put into the outer darkness, amid wailing and gnashing of teeth; why? Because they were not nice to other people. Because when you are unkind to the least of mankind you are unkind to Deity.
You, you revel that unkindness. I’ve tried to be gentle with you, to treat you as I would be treated (though I find Hillel’s formulation; which predates that of Jesus, to be better; Do not do unto others what you would not have done unto yourself), but if you want to play that way, I can oblige. I would try to hold the words of Jesus on the cross, “forgive them Father, they know not what they do”, but you do know what you are doing, and despite the teachings you claim to revere you are looking for motes in the eyes of others, while refusing to ponder the very ideat that there might be something you’ve not considered; not even that you might be wrong about the details; even if you have the substance correct.
No. You are hateful little man; foul, and wallowing in your filth; as maggots in the bottom of bucket of slops, you are more than just content in your stench, you wave it about as the badge of your pride (which goeth before the fall). You are posessed of eyes, and refuse to see, you have ears and will not hear. Presented with charity you pretend it is hatred. You have asked to be maltreated, and when you are given what you request you whine the people are mean to you.
So, having tried to share the word with you, and been abused; for the witness I bore, I depart, and as I go, I shake the dust from my sandals.
May God have mercy on your soul.
Except it doesn’t say that. It says:
A woman breaks into her ex-boyfriends home, beats him, and runs off into the night before police arrive. Man gets a temporary restraining order when the police arrive because there is little else he can do.
Should he have to wait to get her signature on the restraining order in order to file it? Has she actually been found guilty of anything or is it a temporary means to attempt to protect the victim from further threats and intimidation pending an arrest and trial? Does it give him an opportunity to protect himself before those threats escalate into more violence? Or to give him an actionable way to protect himself that he might otherwise not have, particularly if she is bright enough to know how to threaten without actually breaking a law?
…
Those laws exist for all victims. It is up to the rest of us to make sure that everyone, including men, can use them.
If you are concerned about the safety of male victims, then you should support laws that protect them whether or not we live in a society in which they are invisible. (And I agree, they generally are.) This doesn’t mean the law is bad, it means we need to be better about training police to recognize male victims and that we all need to take male victims seriously. It also means we already have the tools available to do that, largely because of feminists and victims rights advocates.
It’s not the law that doesn’t recognize the existence of male victims, it’s our culture. And due in no small part to people like you who are constantly perpetuate the myth of the weak, naturally submissive woman and the strong, assertive man.
Do you see now why belittling women is bad for men too?
NWO is a CINO, Christian in Name Only. He thinks he’s persecuted because some of us talked about the conversion of Constantine, a historical fact. I won’t dare tell him about the Council of Nicea, because talking about the history of Christianity is oppression. Then he turns around and quotes KKK websites’ claims about Jewish holy texts, acting surprised when people called him out on his religious intolerance.
NWO loves to fantasize about being oppressed. He’s oppressed by atheists and Jews who understand his own religion better than he does. He’s oppressed by laws that help protect women from rape, domestic violence, and discrimination. Mostly he’s oppressed by the fact that nobody wants to join him in his sad, little pity parties.
VoiP: re Augustine: Yes, he was saying men could be raped. Sexuality was complicated in Rome/Greece. Fucking other men was ok, if one was being the fucker. To be the fuckee immediately made one effeminate, forever.
This is why so many ephithets in Rome involve raping men, anally, or orally (there is a difference between active/passive in the ways penile/oral contact is done… fellatio is the active act, irrumatio is the passive: giving head/mouth-fucked).
And slaves… no right to bodily autonomy. So men were raped, a lot.
Ooooo! Protecting victims from their offenders is HATE! Look at the HATE! Forbidding contact!!! Prohibiting firearms!!!!!
It’s almost like domestic violence offenders are violent! It’s their constitutional RIGHT!
Also:
Why is having callouses the only definition of “work”?
Accountants don’t do work? Lawyers don’t do work? Police officers don’t do work? Scientists don’t do work? Cab drivers? Doctors? Software designers? IT specialists? Graphic designers? Security and prison guards? Electrical engineers? Teachers? Nuclear power plant operators? Pilots? Gas station attendants? Astronauts? Health and safety specialists? Journalists? Coroners? Clergy? Curators? Mathematicians? Parole Officers? Civil engineers? Pharmacists? Actuaries? Vets? Air traffic controllers? Truckers? Do truckers have callouses besides the ones on their asses?
And the biggest laugh of all: Men’s rights activists? Oh wait- well they might have callouses, just not from “work”.
Cops have callouses, but not where one would expect. they have them on their hips, and collarbones. From the gear.
Polliwog: Oh my goodness, this thread got completely hilarious today. I think my favorite bit was the part where knowing extremely basic biology without having to look it up is “cheating” because, apparently, no one actually knows things! Too funny.
But if you have to look it up, you didn’t know it, so it doesn’t count.