Christmas came early for the MRAs this year. Earlier this week, a generous soul calling himself AgentOrange posted a 165 MB present online for them, an assortment of super-secret internet postings from a private forum connected to the RadFem Hub, which Mr. Orange collected by bravely going behind enemy lines and, er, screencapping a bunch of shit. As the OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE declared:
[B]oth feminists and MRAs alike, have been anxiously awaiting the promised complete files of screen shots and associated materials collected by Agent Orange.
These files are apparently so vile and incendiary that Mr. Orange has deemed it necessary to reveal the personal information of some of the RadFemHub commenters. Not to encourage anyone to stalk or harass or harm them, just so that those offended by them can do whatever it is people do when personal info is leaked on the internet that doesn’t involve stalking or harassing or harming them. Send them postcards?
But in any case there is no reason whatsoever to think that a group of really really really angry people who love making threats on the internet and think their opponents are as bad as Hitler could ever do anything that would be in any way problematic.
So, you might ask, what dastardly secrets do these new files disclose? Oddly, the PRESS RELEASE doesn’t actually specify. The AgentOrange website doesn’t say either. And the 165 MB download is just a bunch of files with no explanation.
But I have spent some time going through these files myself in a completely random manner, which is evidently what AgentOrange expects everyone who downloads the files to do. To be perfectly honest, I haven’t spent that much time on this. I’ve really been quite busy with other things. But I have spent some time. More than twenty minutes, anyway.
So let me share with you some preliminary findings.
Here, straight from the AgentOrange files, are some RadFems discussing a news story about a male midwife who thinks that mothers should embrace the pain of childbirth as a “rite of passage.” (Click on the teensy image on the right to get it full-sized.)
Apparently some of those RadFems don’t think this is a good idea! One of them says:
Does he even know what uterine cramps/contractions even feel like?
Another adds:
I read that and rolled my eyes. … If only it were possible to subject mister midwife (my ass) to the joyous pain of childbirth. I guess a swift kick to the balls is as close as he’s ever going to come to it.
Clearly suggesting that a male midwife suffer pain similar to what he suggests women should suffer is nothing short of GENOCIDE!
But wait, there’s more! Another woman writes:
There is no reason why women should have to endure pain like this in this day and age.
That sounds exactly like something HITLER would have said! (If you replace “women” with “Jews” and “no reason” with “every reason.”)
Still another adds:
This is phenomenally stupid, and completely out of step with current pain management theory and procedures.
Is there no end to this feminazi depravity!?
Oh, but there’s more, much more. In this thread — click the image to the right — the evil RadFems complain about guys trying to pick them up in a creepy manner. One of the ladies suggests that a good way to get the guys to leave you alone is to tell them you’re a widow.
You see now that feminism is all about DECEPTION!
Maybe it should be called Deceptionism!
Ok, ok, just one more. In a thread called “I’m mad as hell” — right over there on the right again — one commenter complains about getting a computer virus.
She’s so mad she says she’s even considering downloading Ubuntu and forgoing all Microsoft products, which are frequently targets of viruses! What? Huh? DOES NOT COMPUTE. BZZZZZZZ. LADY USING LINUX ERROR ERROR. *$^*$()*%(*$$$$$$$$. EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN.
CARRIER.
REBOOTING.
FLUSHING CACHE.
Ok. I’m back. Another commenter there says something about castrating guys who write viruses.
That does seem a little excessive. Though I don’t think she means it literally.
I will return to this topic later, after I recover.
In the meantime, if you want to see the most ridiculous comments on the matter from Reddit’s Men’s Rightsers, you can find some of them collected together here. Among the highlights:
This isn’t public shaming, its outing criminals that are planning your genocide.
A story of a plan of naziesque proportions is about to broken.
I think we can all agree that feminism inevitably heads down the road of male genocide.
MRAs, more melodramatic than emo kids.
Oh, and by the way, two of the Reddit quotes above come from a fellow known on Reddit as Sigi1, but who may be more familiar to Man Boobzers as Eoghan. Without clicking on the links, can you guess which two?
This post contains:
NWO: It’s natural because it’s basically part of that cycle. As in part of nature. The term “natural” in the context doesn’t derive from misogyny. Sometimes, on rare occasions, everything isn’t about women being victims of the bad mans evil ways.
Dying from smallpox, or appendicitis, or an abdominal wound is, by your definition, “natural”, but we can stop it. Which is also natural, because we are part of nature, and we’ve figured out how things work.
NWO: As far as I know, new life ain’t popping up in the oceans and stuff. How come?
That would be the problem of “no vacant niche” as expounded by Steven Jay Gould (Wonderful Life, 1990). In the first place, the available ways to make a living are already filled. In the second, even if a niche becomes empty there are other lifeforms (from bacteria to birds, to fish, reptiles, arthropods, mammals, marsupials, etc.) which have a head start. So it’s not true that no new lifeforms are being, “created” but that they have a huge handicap in dealing competitively with the life which already exists.
When one gets to macroscopic life it’s even harder. The greatest change seems to have been the discovery of vision at the beginning of the Paleozoic (defined at the pre-cambrian/cambrian boundary, see “IN THE BLINK OF AN EYE, Parker, Andrew, 2004).
As to the question of proteins outside of cells: repeat after me, “Proteins have been created outside of cells.”
Just keep repeating it until you have come to realise it’s true.
I’d imagine that childbirth isn’t fun, but what’s befuddling to me is the fact that many women voluntarily do it Again, and Again, and AGAIN…….O_O If the pain is so agonizing why subject yourself to it more than once??? Hopefully in the future robots will have replaced humans and will reproduce asexually and painlessly.
I do have to say one more thing about radfem though……………What I find quite Cr33py and at the same time pretty pathetic are the uncanny similarities between the “radical feminists” of radfem and christian fundamentalists. radfemmers think that Nature is “perfect” and doesn’t make any sort of biological mistakes and this intended people to be born & live exactly as they are. Not to mention their fanatical hatred of sex. ><
Someone above claimed MRA’s say things like:
1. Feminism is wrong.
2. Women should be submissive.
3. Women should dress modestly to prevent rape.
4. Battered wives should avoid provoking their abusers.
I agree MRA’s do say #1, but I’ve not encountered #2,#3 or #4 being listed by any MRA group… Could you show me precisely where this is being said by MRA’s?
marx, you can find examples of all of these things in previous posts on this blog. And from MRAs in the comments here:
David K. Meller, an MRA, talks endlessly about how women should be submissive in the comments here.
See also practically any MRA/MGTOW discussion of “western women” and their supposedly more submissive eastern counterparts:
http://manboobz.com/2011/03/07/asian-women-sexual-strikebreakers/
http://manboobz.com/2011/10/19/american-women-dumpsters-or-septic-tanks/
http://manboobz.com/2011/08/01/america-land-of-soulless-hamster-wusses/
http://manboobz.com/2011/04/11/body-heat/
Look at some of my posts about Lara Logan and the slutwalks for examples of #3.
http://manboobz.com/2011/05/03/lara-logan-redux-more-victim-blaming-rape-denial-and-rape-apologetics-from-in-mala-fide/
http://manboobz.com/2011/11/28/women-why-must-you-assault-men-with-your-evil-sexy-outfits/
http://manboobz.com/2011/08/08/spearheaders-on-the-slutwalks-again-its-bad/
Almost any MRA discussion of the slutwalks is going to contain some version of the “if they dress like sluts they deserve what they get” or “women need to take responsibility for their actions,” by which the MRAs mean their action of dressing in a way that, in the MRA mind, might lead to a man getting so excited that he rapes her. (Never mind that in fact what women wear has no correlation with whether or not they are raped, or that the idea that men are such simple creatures that they can’t control themselves when women dress “provocatively” is really pretty insulting to men.
Are you asking this question seriously? Have you even read the endless discussions of slutwalks on your own site?
One example of this attitude from there:
http://antimisandry.com/chit-chat-main/look-out-bra-walk-near-you-41817-post268679.html#post268679
As for women “provoking” violence against themselves, see:
http://manboobz.com/2011/09/20/violence-against-women-blame-it-on-feminism-says-w-f-price/
http://manboobz.com/2010/10/12/quoteotd-whatever-terrible-shit-men-do-its-all-womens-fault-their-sexy-fault/
Once you read all these I will be happy to answer any further questions.
*Hands David the internet of his choice for brilliant pwning via linkage*
Bravo, David.
@marxantimisandry: Saying something along the lines of how you aren’t claiming that women should revert to the status of chattel but feminism is wrong is akin to saying that you think the Civil Rights Movement is wrong, but you aren’t saying people of color should be second-class citizens.
Merry Christmas, everybody.
While I am critical of certain radfem points-of view – namely the ones that denounce pornography and sex-work – I at least respect where they’re coming from. I’m a sex-positive equality feminist, who will fight hard for sex workers’ rights, freedom from censorship, and real men’s rights (like freedom not to be blown up in wars, and rights to child custody and financial support, which I’d like to see more awesome dads, like my awesome dad, get – but not the right to make a “Who would you rape? list” at a fraternity). So sure, I do sometimes feel that some radical feminists don’t see eye-to-eye with me, and a couple have called me mean names on their blogs, but to be perfectly fair to them, they haven’t threatened or condoned violence against me. Or at least not to my knowledge.
Same deal with most religious conservatives. While a few advocate violence, the vast majority will merely grumble about how they find GLBT people’s lifestyles misguided and about how abortion is immoral. A few might even call me anti-gay slurs, but they’re not out there calling for me to be burned at the stake. They’re mostly just planning to vote Republican in the next election, and that’s about it.
I can’t say the same for many MRAs. At best, they want to silence women. Even women who are on the side of men’s rights best shut up, because they’re women, and women = garbage. More often, I’ve seen MRA blogs that salivate over the thought of violence against women and GLBT people. I guess the thinking goes “If I can’t see every single thing in society go my way, I’ll ruin it for everyone else.” And I’m not ok with that.
The MRAs (I call them “Moron’s Rights Activists”) are correct about one thing though: mainstream society really, really dislikes them. But they’re wrong about the reasons why. It’s not because they’re men. It’s not because of their chromosomes or what’s between their legs. It’s because the language they use and the “solutions” they advocate are so anti-social, radical, and sometimes, even violent that even your average hard-core conservative or “Gee I wish society would return to the 1950s”-type person feels repulsed. They can’t find widespread support – NOT because society is vastly misandrist, but because society doesn’t find a call-to-arms against more than 50 percent of its population to be all that awfully cool.
Back to the RadFem screen captures. Did you not read the section on elimination of the male gender on-mass? Or the bit on throwing (male) children out the window?
Those comments are from senior female academics and women in positions of power. They’re also from women who work in childcare! Does that not concern you?
The MRA comments regarding submissive women or the way women dress is very tame by comparison.
——
One example of this attitude from there:
http://antimisandry.com/chit-chat-main/look-out-bra-walk-near-you-41817-post268679.html#post268679
——
David, I don’t know whether you intentionally misrepresented my site or just didn’t realise how ‘quoting’ works – the post you took me to was a member quoting the original article from another site, they were NOT his words.
My experience with feminism is that it’s followers have a nasty habit of misrepresenting with the full intent of deceiving others and crediting people where they do not deserve credit. That seems to be the case on this occasion, you are crediting (and misquoting) an anti-feminist in order to deceive your readers into believing he said to effect that women who dress in a certain manner ‘deserve’ to be rape – which is absolutely not the case.
Your article (this one) reinforces my opinion of feminists being deceptive as you only managed to talk about very benign issues and utterly ignored the more problematic areas of the rad-fem discussions, such as poisoning pregnant women to induce abortions and poisoning men to affect their sperm. You failed to discuss any of the topics that were the main target of the agent-orange concept. Instead, you opted to misrepresent the entire point for your readers in order to minimize the potential here. Why would you do that if not with the intent of supporting the bigotry that has been exposed?
Now tell me David, IF you had stumbled upon similar topics from a men’s rights site – would you ignore the calls for violence, the threats to poison innocent people, the demands for women to be reduced to 10% of the population, the fact that these MRA’s held influence & power, etc. etc.? Of course you wouldn’t – it would be the meat of your article.
As far as can tell from what bits I’ve read, you seem to be very supportive of the hate campaign against men and supporting misinformation which only serves to demonize an entire sex.
I am saddened, but not in the least surprised, by your efforts to deceive and manipulate.
omigod it’s like every whiny concern troll cliche rolled into a single post
it’s like you guys think if you slather everything with this ‘i heartily disagree and good day to you, sir’ flowery debate club nonsense people aren’t going to notice how incredibly juvenile your shit is.
‘a woman feels she should be allowed to walk around without a shirt on. time to flip the fuck out about what a poor marginalized baby i am because other people are doing things’
Marx, how am I misrepresenting anything? That comment says pretty clearly that telling a woman to dress more modestly will help to prevent rape.
The exact words:
These are his words, not anything quoted.
ChristianJ responds with this comment:
And the original guy I quoted says this:
Which makes pretty clear what he meant in the first comment.
So how is this not the same as “Women should dress modestly to prevent rape?”
Also: what about this comment from ChristianJ?
How is THIS not the same as “Women should dress modestly to prevent rape?” (Only in a sarcastic tone and using the word “bitch.”
Again, I haven’t misrepresented anyone in any way.
I notice you didn’t refer to any of my other links either? Are they all evil misrepresentations too?
And speaking of misrepresentation: you cay this about me:
This is blatantly false. I don’t “demonize an entire sex.” I call out SPECIFIC men for being misogynist assholes. I do it by QUOTING THEM DIRECTLY AND ACCURATELY.
Please show me one quote from me — one single quote — that shows I’m part of a “hate campaign against men” or that I’m “demoniz[ing] an entire sex.”
Hey there, fake Marxist. You better put down that big, heavy imaginary violin that you’re playing before you hurt yourself.
Marxantimisandry said
Hey, I was the one who made that list of MRA beliefs. David already did an excellent job providing examples for you, but I want to back up my statement, too.
1. Feminism is wrong. Okay you’ve already admitted that most MRA blogs say that. It is the stated goal for most of the manosphere, after all.
2. Women should be submissive. Just read the blog posts at Roissy/Heartiste’s site or Boycott American Women. They love to whine and complain about how “Ameriskank” women aren’t submissive enough, but LBFM’s (Little Brown Fuck Machines) are the solution to western men’s prayers. Uncle Elmer at the Spearhead loves to brag about his foreign wife he calls his “mail order bride”. These are just a few examples of men in the manosphere saying that women should be submissive to men.
3. NWOSlave is an MRA that comments here all the time trying to convince everyone that if women dress provocatively, they are tempting men to rape them. He compares scantily dressed women to a meal being dangled in front of a starving man. All of the comment sections at AVfM and the Spearhead dealing with Slut walks usually include some posters saying that a scantily clad woman is like a person walking around thieves with large sums of cash in hir hands.
4. Just read the post “How to slap your way to slavery” at A Voice for Men. It describes a scenario where a woman nags and pesters her husband until he begins hitting her. The story shows the abuser in a sympathetic light and shows the abused woman as the victim.
Correction, I meant to say that the story shows the abuser in a sympathetic light and the abused woman as the villian, not victim.
Kendra, don’t forget our very own DKM, who totally understands how some man could be provoked by his wife into hitting her. Not that he endorses that or anything. /sarcasm
In fact, he understands why a man might want to beat me up for the comments I make here! Just hypothetically, you understand.
That’s right, DKM does give a lot of examples of domestic violence victim blaming. His little “I’m not blaming the victim when I say victims provoke their abusers” rants are an excellent example of my fourth point.
—–
Almost any MRA discussion of the slutwalks is going to contain some version of the “if they dress like sluts they deserve what they get” or “women need to take responsibility for their actions,”
—–
You then directed to me a quote where a guard suggested a woman might be safer if she covered her breasts. The poster of the words you quoted said in response it wasn’t about her ‘rights’ but rather trying to protect her.
And you call that an argument of she ‘deserves’ to be raped? What? There is simply no comparison. You are blowing words out of context to serve your purpose of marginalizing the point he was addressing.
You then ignore the point I raised about how you selectively posted segments of the Agent Orange Files in order to misrepresent just how bad they really are.
My question asked: Why would you do that if not with the intent of supporting the bigotry that has been exposed?
If I came upon a Nazi site plotting ways of destroying the world we live in yet selectively quoted only the most benign elements, such as quoting someone who said “I like blue eyes” and intentionally left out other quotes such as “Let’s kill those who don’t have blue eyes” – wouldn’t that strike you as a bit… odd?
I realise I’m wasting my time pointing out your obvious hypocrisy in this issue. Your name is well known over the interwebs for your distortions of reality.
Having spoken with you directly now and seeing your tricks in action – I see why others suggest not bothering with you… Your arguments are akin to an abusive man saying “She ‘made me’ hit her because of the dirty looks she gave me after serving a cold dinner!” and flatly refusing to acknowledge he has done wrong.
How is “she asked for it” (when speaking about something she obviously doesn’t want) different from “she deserves it”?
Saying that women shouldn’t dress this or that way to avoid rape is
– a lie, as such thing has never been proven effective
– a way to control how women dresses
– a very common way to subtly shift responsibility from the rapist to the victim by saying that her actions cause the rape.
Misogyny, misogyny, misogyny. But on top of that, we should care about your concern-troll’s feelings? Sugh.
She’s right you know?
“Your arguments are akin to an abusive man saying “She ‘made me’ hit her because of the dirty looks she gave me after serving a cold dinner!” and flatly refusing to acknowledge he has done wrong”
I lollled… so much lollling. In fact I lolled so hard that my ass remains on the floor due to me not being able to stop lolling in order to reattach it. David, by looking for and finding the abundant rape-apologising and abuse-apologising posts in the manosphere you are exactly like an abuser trying to excuse away his abuse. If anyone sees an ass lying around Woodbridge or Toronto please contact me as I may have been thinking of this post during my travels and am frantically trying to find it
“Your arguments are akin to an abusive man saying “She ‘made me’ hit her because of the dirty looks she gave me after serving a cold dinner!” and flatly refusing to acknowledge he has done wrong.”
Except that the only manboobz regular commenter that could say such a thing is a MRA. Funny how things are.
How could I miss that? You come here concern-trolling because you feel you’re being misrepresented and give us a link to a forum whose official definition for feminist is “a sexist female-supremacist who advocate preferential treatment of women over men or possibly someone who does believes in true equality and is miseducated on what feminism is truly about” i.e. “evil or stupid”.