Christmas came early for the MRAs this year. Earlier this week, a generous soul calling himself AgentOrange posted a 165 MB present online for them, an assortment of super-secret internet postings from a private forum connected to the RadFem Hub, which Mr. Orange collected by bravely going behind enemy lines and, er, screencapping a bunch of shit. As the OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE declared:
[B]oth feminists and MRAs alike, have been anxiously awaiting the promised complete files of screen shots and associated materials collected by Agent Orange.
These files are apparently so vile and incendiary that Mr. Orange has deemed it necessary to reveal the personal information of some of the RadFemHub commenters. Not to encourage anyone to stalk or harass or harm them, just so that those offended by them can do whatever it is people do when personal info is leaked on the internet that doesn’t involve stalking or harassing or harming them. Send them postcards?
But in any case there is no reason whatsoever to think that a group of really really really angry people who love making threats on the internet and think their opponents are as bad as Hitler could ever do anything that would be in any way problematic.
So, you might ask, what dastardly secrets do these new files disclose? Oddly, the PRESS RELEASE doesn’t actually specify. The AgentOrange website doesn’t say either. And the 165 MB download is just a bunch of files with no explanation.
But I have spent some time going through these files myself in a completely random manner, which is evidently what AgentOrange expects everyone who downloads the files to do. To be perfectly honest, I haven’t spent that much time on this. I’ve really been quite busy with other things. But I have spent some time. More than twenty minutes, anyway.
So let me share with you some preliminary findings.
Here, straight from the AgentOrange files, are some RadFems discussing a news story about a male midwife who thinks that mothers should embrace the pain of childbirth as a “rite of passage.” (Click on the teensy image on the right to get it full-sized.)
Apparently some of those RadFems don’t think this is a good idea! One of them says:
Does he even know what uterine cramps/contractions even feel like?
Another adds:
I read that and rolled my eyes. … If only it were possible to subject mister midwife (my ass) to the joyous pain of childbirth. I guess a swift kick to the balls is as close as he’s ever going to come to it.
Clearly suggesting that a male midwife suffer pain similar to what he suggests women should suffer is nothing short of GENOCIDE!
But wait, there’s more! Another woman writes:
There is no reason why women should have to endure pain like this in this day and age.
That sounds exactly like something HITLER would have said! (If you replace “women” with “Jews” and “no reason” with “every reason.”)
Still another adds:
This is phenomenally stupid, and completely out of step with current pain management theory and procedures.
Is there no end to this feminazi depravity!?
Oh, but there’s more, much more. In this thread — click the image to the right — the evil RadFems complain about guys trying to pick them up in a creepy manner. One of the ladies suggests that a good way to get the guys to leave you alone is to tell them you’re a widow.
You see now that feminism is all about DECEPTION!
Maybe it should be called Deceptionism!
Ok, ok, just one more. In a thread called “I’m mad as hell” — right over there on the right again — one commenter complains about getting a computer virus.
She’s so mad she says she’s even considering downloading Ubuntu and forgoing all Microsoft products, which are frequently targets of viruses! What? Huh? DOES NOT COMPUTE. BZZZZZZZ. LADY USING LINUX ERROR ERROR. *$^*$()*%(*$$$$$$$$. EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN.
CARRIER.
REBOOTING.
FLUSHING CACHE.
Ok. I’m back. Another commenter there says something about castrating guys who write viruses.
That does seem a little excessive. Though I don’t think she means it literally.
I will return to this topic later, after I recover.
In the meantime, if you want to see the most ridiculous comments on the matter from Reddit’s Men’s Rightsers, you can find some of them collected together here. Among the highlights:
This isn’t public shaming, its outing criminals that are planning your genocide.
A story of a plan of naziesque proportions is about to broken.
I think we can all agree that feminism inevitably heads down the road of male genocide.
MRAs, more melodramatic than emo kids.
Oh, and by the way, two of the Reddit quotes above come from a fellow known on Reddit as Sigi1, but who may be more familiar to Man Boobzers as Eoghan. Without clicking on the links, can you guess which two?
This post contains:
Some of the stuff on RadHub is hateful toward men.
It’s “disagree with them” hateful. “Make fun of them” hateful. Maybe even “send them angry emails” hateful.
It’s not “release their personal information along with statements that they must be stopped to save the free world” hateful.
Big, important difference there.
To anyone who took the time to read through it all: Were there, in fact, threads that actually advocate for the destruction of the male gender, infant boys, genetic modifications of males, etc? Because that’s what some of them were saying. I guess I could download it when I get home this evening, but ugh.
I know this is a redundant question, but they know those files were taken from a radical feminist message board, right? I know, I know, they think all feminist theory is radical. I mean, I have read some hateful, vile stuff about men, but the overwhelming majority of the authors were/are radical feminists.
They’re really paranoid that radical feminists have infiltrated everywhere and plan to carry out genocide on the male gender. Really? A group of radical feminists chatting on a message board are powerful enough to wipe out 1/2 of the species? Oh but I forget, they’ve infiltrated the governments. I bet a lot of these guys also get into the Illuminati conspiracy theories too.
I’m hard pressed to believe that they truly wish no physical harm on these women. They are fully aware that there are some very angry, violent men out there who blame all the world’s problems on feminism and/or women in general who wouldn’t need much arm twisting to track down and attack some of those women.
I think they’re counting on it.
I don’t really care if there are?
It doesn’t change my view–they’re jerks, but they don’t deserve this doxing shit.
It doesn’t change mine either but that seems to be a lot of what they’re howling about. I was curious to see if those women were actually saying, you know, “let’s keel all the men!”
It’s like they’re just looking for excuses to do violence to evil wimminz or something.
Flipping through some of these deplorable screencaps. I see a lot of damning material:
There are countless women calmly discussing topics of interest, criticizing real-world issues that affect them and others! Can you believe it! Feminism exposed!
But wait, there’s more!
I even saw a couple broad generalizations in there. And a couple of tasteless jokes! Of course the people making them were largely either ignored or criticized everyone else, but don’t let that fool you!
We can’t let the feminazis succeed in their plans to make reanimate zombie Valerie Solanas and finish constructing robot Andrea Dworkin, or all us men will violently lose our penises!
Honestly, this stuff isn’t even as bad as I *expected* it to be, which wasn’t all that bad. Yes there are things here that are genuinely objectionable, thus proving that every movement has assholes and that sometimes, people react harshly to being mistreated. Very little here comes even close to some of the mildest bile spewing out of the myriad MRA blogs and boards every. single. day.
You know, it could be an interesting experiment to take text from some MRA boards, switch the genders, post it as if it written by Dastardly Matriarchs, and watch the MRA world explode with rage at the hateful, bigoted rhetoric of the supposed gynocracy.
Yeah, RadfemHub definitely does have some pretty bad stuff – towards men and women. But I rarely see it escalate to MRA-level hateful. (where MRAs say “kill all women and replace them with lifelike robots”, posters on RadfemHub say “don’t associate with men.” These statements are not equivalent.)
Also: Releasing personal info of posters on the internet. NEVER OKAY.
Ugh, Radfemhub. Maybe we can ignore them and they’ll go away?
I think the MRAs are trying to spread the idea that this is what all feminists secretly think, like there’s some special members-only areas of Feministe and Pandagon that are all about plotting genocide, and the front pages are just for keeping up their harmless facades.
Ugh, it’s been, like, the terrible trifecta of posts. Exploiting homeless people, date rape advice, and now, threatening and terrorizing individual women! Sounds great guys, seems like you really care about men, where do I sign up???
I was offended by MRA’s on the Spearhead forum that said they wanted to remove the voice boxes of baby girls and put all women in rape camps. Even though their statements were vile and inexcusable, I never thought they should have their private information plastered all over the Internet.
Apparently, Elam has plans in store that are going to be worse than this. He said
and
The MRA’s don’t really care about challenging misandry. They just want to intimidate anyone who ever disagrees with them.
“The fembots better hope the Mayan’s were right about next year, because they would rather deal with that than the things we are cooking up.”
For NWO’s future reference, THAT is what an actual hate group sounds like.
Question: For all the thundering on about bringing doom to their enemies, how much personal information did they actually get?
I get the impression it’s mostly names and the general industries they work in, and they know a few people’s specific employers.
But they don’t actually have anyone’s home address, do they? God knows they’d love to, and would use it in the most irresponsible ways if they did, but… I’m getting the impression here that they’re actually so bad at Internet detectiving that they can’t actually do much harm. They’d like to be bastards, but, gosh, it’s so difficult.
Slightly off-topic, but I have to say as far as I am concerned, the women who commented on the male midwife promoting “natural” child birth have a point. When I was pregnant, I did quite a bit of research on whether or not epidurals were safe, and I found, to my utter dismay, that all arguments in favor of painful childbirth seem to be rooted in moralistic — and ultimately misogynistic — arguments. Yes, I found even the “Earth Mother” -type arguments against pain relief misogynistic. Moreover, the historic involvement of male advocates in opposition to pain relief in childbirth is nothing short of disturbing. I realize there is a difference of opinion there, but the just-so notion that women MUST suffer in childbirth is rooted in the all-too-common belief that women are these ditzy care-free beings who are perpetually in need of being taught a lesson, in this case through the infliction of extreme pain — any way you cut it, it’s hateful.
There is a very small percentage of women who give birth painlessly. There is another small percentage of women who experience a moderate amount of pain. But for the vast majority of us, the pain of childbirth is absolutely horrendous. In cases where labor is induced — almost always to prevent brain damage or death to the baby — the synthetic hormones that bring on the labor exacerbate the contractions, making them more intense and making them last longer; so the pain that’s already unfathomably bad can get a lot, a lot worse. I know this first-hand, because although I had explicitly requested an epidural repeatedly, I went through almost the entirety of my (induced) labor unmedicated, because the only anesthesiologist on duty was “busy”.
And this too, illustrates a kind of latent systemic misogyny. No, my OB was not personally a misogynist by a long shot, but there is clearly something wrong with the system. There would always be an anesthesiologist available for a surgery, even a minor one and far less perilous than the process of childbirth. If someone was brought into the emergency room screaming his head off because of a gaping wound in his abdomen, he would get the drugs right away. But when it comes to childbirth, the medical establishment — which is still comprised mostly of men (and female midwives with positively medieval attitudes) — exhibits a shockingly dismissive attitude towards the pain that women experience. And frankly, if a male medical professional told me that the pain of child birth is “good pain” and that it’s something I need to go through to be an adequate mother, I’d think it condescending as hell.
a couple of people were unfortunate enough to have their address on a linked in profile available in their profile, so yeah, they managed to get addresses for some of them. fortunately, that seems to be about as far as they went.
its mostly a bunch of screenshots in no particular order.
Sharculese – Yuck. I hope those people know about this (well, I’m almost certain they do) and that they’re safe.
@Amused, that sums up my feelings, too. I don’t care what other women choose to do in their own childbirth, but I chose to get epidurals. I didn’t feel a bit guilty for it, either. I never hear other people get scolded for wanting pain relief during a root canal so why is it different for labor?
I’ve been following this exciting development for a while now, starting from the buildup to the OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE. Even the MRAs on the Men’s Rights Subreddit were laughing at it. Everyone there seems pretty certain that “Agent Orange” is Paul Elam, completely failing to conceal his identity for this ultra-secret undercover mission.
Still, nice death threats, dude. You stay classy.
Long time lurker (a certain someone inspired my screenname), first time poster! I look forward to sharing my opinions on here.
While radical feminism is a little extreme for me (I consider myself a moderate feminist), I think releasing personal information is pretty lousy. They’d be crying persecution if someone put their info out there.
…Why has this gentleman named himself after a punk band and/or a herbicide which is used in war and causes serious health problems?
Shaenon,
yeah, I also think it’s him. After the whole RegisterHer shit, I guess in his mind, this was the next logical step.
Also: “Agent Orange”? Seriously?
In all seriousness, does anyone know what caused Elam in particular to take a turn for the batshit? Has he ever talked about specific events in his past that turned him into the women-hating weirdo he is today?
Meh. I sort of have a hard time getting all worked up over a minor violation of radfems’ privacy. It’s not right, of course… but they just kind of disgust me, so. You know. And as was said, there’s really not much there. A few names? One or two addresses?
I do agree that Agent Orange is almost certainly Elam or one of his cronies, so that’s pretty hilarious.
@Holly Pervocracy
“Sharculese – Yuck. I hope those people know about this (well, I’m almost certain they do) and that they’re safe.”
And I hope for once in the history of the world, women will drag these filthy creatures out into the street and beat the crap out of them. To show for the first time in recorded history women actually do care about men/mens feelings. Women say they care but there’s never been an actual recorded act to go along with those altruistic words.
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@Amused
” There is a very small percentage of women who give birth painlessly. There is another small percentage of women who experience a moderate amount of pain. But for the vast majority of us, the pain of childbirth is absolutely horrendous.”
Do you “feel” the pain of all women as they give birth? If not, there’s no way you could ever judge the level of pain for any particular childbirth. What pain-o-meter is used to gauge pain? I can say with 100% accuracy no woman has ever felt one of her jewels being even slightly grazed. That’s enough to stop a man in his tracks. I might’ve endured that accidental pain 100 x or so. Whose to say my pain isn’t far worse? You?
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“If someone was brought into the emergency room screaming his head off because of a gaping wound in his abdomen, he would get the drugs right away.”
Than do a little test. Take a poker from the fireplace and jam into your gut nice and hard. You will then be able to judge which pain is more endurable and long lasting.
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“when it comes to childbirth, the medical establishment — which is still comprised mostly of men”
Do you have statistics on the male/female ration in the medical field?
————
“And frankly, if a male medical professional told me that the pain of child birth is “good pain” and that it’s something I need to go through to be an adequate mother, I’d think it condescending as hell.”
What would it be if a female told you?
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The difference between any feminist group or another is merely the degree or direction in which to dictate terms of mens actions and how much men should be hated.
I have the right to life, property, freedom and vote. feminists and the vast majority of women demand more. Feminism want to hate men directly, or they want privileges which is hatred in itself.
Women demand to never have their feelings hurt, yet demand freedom of speech to hurt men.
A hate movement if I ever heard of one.
Nobody deserves to be beaten. Nobody. I’m going to fuckin’ stand by that.
Murderers don’t deserve to be beaten. Rapists don’t. The resurrected ghost of Hitler doesn’t. People deserve to be held accountable for their crimes but a civilized society does not do that by the infliction of physical pain.
Are you a fucking serial killer?