If you wonder why some dudes get so worked up about “false rape accusations,” it may be because their notion of “seduction” is pretty much indistinguishable from what most of us would call “date rape.” And chances are good that they sort of know this.
Check out this discussion in Reddit’s Seduction subreddit, recently highlighted in ShitRedditSays.
The original poster writes in with a heartrending tale: it seems he can’t get the ladies to touch his penis. Throw5891away writes:
So I have little problem getting numbers, little trouble turning those numbers into dates, I can keep her interested during dates, but i can’t make the move to anything physical beyond a kiss or some light making out.
Let’s have the deets!
A lot of my problem, I think, comes from the fear of possibly making it awkward. I’ve been in a few situations where i’ve tried to slide a hand down the pants of a girl and she turns timid. This is after some over-clothes touching, or pressure with my thigh. Warming them up, i think, is not the major problem. Obviously if a girl says no, i’m not going to push through with it because that’s when it gets awkward.
Yes, trying to stick your fingers in a woman’s vagina when she doesn’t want you to does tend to get a little … awkward.
Beyond me failing at making a first move, it’s nearly impossible for me to get a girl to notice I have an erection and attempt to do something about it.
Maybe you need to wear a t-shirt that says “erection” on it with a big arrow pointing to your crotch? Otherwise how on earth are the ladies you’re making out with ever going to realize you have a boner?
I’m average in size there, so them not noticing is not an issue. I feel like I almost have to physically take their hand and place it on my junk in order to make it happen. And after a while of them paying no attention to my erection (mind you, they’re still gropey elsewhere/into making out), it really starts to make wonder if they’re really into having sex with me at all.
It seems you might just be onto something here. And how on earth can you possibly tell if a woman actually, for real, wants to have sex with you? It’s not like you can ask her directly, because she has the power of speech, or anything like that.
Instead, you’d better ask the dudes on r/seduction. So let’s just see what they have to say.
PuaCurveBall suggests that the best way to avoid the “awkwardness” spoken of earlier is just to ignore it:
I hope this advice doesn’t sounds rapey, but you need to keep going until they seriously tell you no.
Pro-tip: Any bit of advice that starts off with “I hope this advice doesn’t sound rapey” is advice you SHOULD NOT FOLLOW.
Them not telling you firmly to stop (more than just “we shouldn’t be doing this” or “it is too soon”) is the signal. Escalate until they tell you to stop.
Yes, because “we shouldn’t be doing this” is such an ambiguous statement. It could mean anything! It probably is just girl-code for “we should be doing this, so please grab my hand and put it on your dick.”
Either you should get a firm “no, seriously get your hands off me, I’m not ready yet” or you should be having sex with these girls. Everything in the middle is working against you.
So long as she doesn’t literally mace you, you can assume she actually wants you to keep going.
Naturally, the suave Lotherios of the r/seduction community rewarded this sensible advice with upvotes.
Others offered similar advice. Productionx was insistent: “No” means “keep going!”
Women want a man to be dominate. Other women lead you to believe you have to ask for permission, don’t listen to these stupid feminists. Go be a man, if she says no, you say ok, and keep doing exactly what you were doing. You get an erection, make it freaking known!!!
Fangs78 added:
Don’t give up before like the 9-10th time they stop you. Of course, if they are stern and REALLY mean it.
Everyone knows that the first 9 or 10 “no’s” really mean “maybe.”
It’s all part of the art of “seduction.”
This post contains:
David, I find it admirable that you’re able to switch from MGTOW to PUAs so quickly. Two sides of the same misogyny coin. 🙁
Speaking of Reddit, I found this hilarious image on /shitredditsays: A more honest /mensrights.
^^^ In case it’s not clear, someone took a screenshot of /mensrights front page and rewrote the titles. It’s pretty accurate.
I hope this doesnt sound rapey but I’m the casting. Director for a production of The Rape of the Lock, and I think you should try out… No no it’s not about a guy raping a lock… Well, I mean it’s not about a guy having, like, forced intercourse with a keyhole or anything … well it’s a classic of the theatre… no,no I just thought you might like to try out…
Right, so there’s this truly bizarre film called Orgazmo, it’s made by the same people behind South Park, and is probably the only Mormon/Porno/Superhero film you’ll ever see.
This movie contains a running gag where one man says to another, “I don’t want to sound like a queer or nothin’, but…” all those things I listed and more.
After skimming the comments and seeing “I hope this doesn’t sound rapey” get attached to everything, something reminded me of the movie and the two running gags fused in my head, with results that would have festered if I hadn’t posted it. So in self-defense, I shared it with you. I expect your revenge will be swift and excruciating.
Guinea pigs FTW!
My adopted pair of brothers recently lost one pig to cancer. He died in my arms. He had pain meds. The brother pig actually seems quite content, active, vocal, snuggly. He likes the rabbit intrusions into his space, and in a way appears more active than before. The bro-pig was bossy & they did a lot of “neck fighting”.
I may keep him a singleton unless he starts to seem bored or unhappy. He doesn’t mind the rabbits, even though they are only in there to scavenge treats.
Wheeeeeeeek! OOoooooooooot! Warblewarble cheerrummpttttwahwahwah!
My piggy was a singleton and seemed pretty happy with the situation but he also had bunny companions and was played with a lot so he didn’t get bored.
Hey David, will you be covering the release of real life information from a feminist website to an MRA website? Here are the relevant Reddit posts on the subject:
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/nfb5p/release_to_the_world/
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/nleln/agent_orange_files_released/
This seems really dangerous to me, and these women will now be subjected to everything from angry letters from MRAs to their employers to stalking to maybe even physical violence.
I’m kinda surprised you haven’t covered this topic already. If MRAs are willing to act like this, then their so-called “movement” has absolutely no credibility.
Dude, this isn’t the first time MRAs have released personal info:
http://manboobz.com/2011/11/21/mens-rights-site-a-voice-for-men-offers-1000-bounty-for-personal-information-on-swedish-feminists/
http://manboobz.com/2011/11/23/and-what-if-they-get-killed-a-voice-for-men-as-an-antifeminist-witchfinder-general/
I will do something on the AgentOrange bullshit soon.
When I read stories like the ones in the OP, I get baffled. Sexual communication happens with my spouse all the time, and it ain’t that complicated or, you know, fraught with danger. One of us dresses minimally, goes into the room where the other is, walks up to them and says “Hi!” in a bright cheerful manner. Or we might be cuddling, and one spouse asks the other, “So, are you horny?”
But then, that’s in a relationship. And I can see how that would not apply to people who want sex outside of relationships. So, here’s the true advice: limiting your sexual communication to nonverbal signals is a bad idea. I just noticed that even in my examples, there are both verbal and nonverbal components.
But, I sadly believe that this isn’t really the issue. The “problem” is, there is no way to guarantee sex during any given interaction. That’s very important. If you want some way to know, ahead of time, absolutely, that you will get laid, with no exceptions, well, that isn’t going to happen, ever. And if you want to know “how can I manipulate people into doing what I want them to do, regardless of their own feelings, and have them not be pissed off afterwards?” I don’t have any good advice.
Oh, and seriously: “Escalate until they tell you to stop”? “Escalate”? Isn’t that, like, a term used in describing violent or criminal behavior? Googling for “escalate sex” only brings up PUA-type sites. I think there’s a connection here.
Wow! It really seems like the PUA idea of the path to sexual relations is kiss —> fuck and it blows out their fragile circuits when other people are like, Hey, buddy, you just skipped like 20 really enjoyable steps right there. Guaranteed, when engaged in sincerely, to make this interaction hotter for everyone involved.
PUAs are the male version of a slut.
Sluts parade about to arouse and get sex from a man who they’ve decided is worthy. Girls are taught from a young age to ply their trade like professionals. Sluts get the added bonus of recieving gifts, dinners, movies, vacations, cash, entertainment for being exceptionally adept at their profession. They don’t need to say much at all since acting like an animal in heat is a womans sexuality.
PUAs need to actively approach women who they want to have sex with. They ply their trade as well. They talk, act, entertain, ect. in order to get sex. Their goal is just the sex and they use what’s at their disposal to get it. They also act like an animal in heat to achieve their goals.
Feminism, being inclusive should embrace PUA culture right alongside slut culture. They are both one in the same. Why shame a man for getting as much sex as possible from different women when you demand praise for a woman who does the same thing? Celebrate them both.
If it’s the emotional pain that concerns you, since no physical pain takes place. A man who is used by a slut feels emotional pain as well. Slut culture is being promoted world-wide. Millions upon millions of men will be emotionally hurt everyday. Expect millions upon millions of women to be emotionally hurt everyday as well.
Oh, but NWO, what do PUAs wear?
Also, is it okay to rape a man if you think he’s a PUA?
No, NWO, the difference comes down to consent, a concept you still seem to have trouble grasping.
@Holly Pervocracy
“Oh, but NWO, what do PUAs wear?”
It doesn’t matter what men wear. Men and women are different. Pretty stupid thing to say. Don’t ya think? Are you telling me men and women have the same sexuality? Do they look the same? Act the same? Think the same?
I’m assuming that, since NWOslave thinks of PUAs as “sluts”, they all wear transparent tops and micro miniskirts.
Yes! Certainly every individual human is different, but those differences are not neatly broken down by gender.
I mean, I’ve only been a woman so I can’t know, but you’ve only been a man so… say, how do you know?
Please, tell me how you know.
NWO, I don’t criticize PUA’s for being promiscuous. I don’t judge them for having sex with lots of women. The problem is that their advice is about testing women’s boundaries and “escalation” rather than seeking enthusiastic consent from their partners.
Sluts parade about to arouse and get sex from a man who they’ve decided is worthy. Girls are taught from a young age to ply their trade like professionals. Sluts get the added bonus of recieving gifts, dinners, movies, vacations, cash, entertainment for being exceptionally adept at their profession. They don’t need to say much at all since acting like an animal in heat is a womans sexuality.
I just wanted to see this again because it’s a polished gem of weirdness. “Plying their trade?” The fuck? Where the hell did you grow up, NWO? Where do you live now. It isn’t a pocket dimension by any chance?
NWOslave, why do you keep saying “Men and women are different!” when you *just said* that both men and women can be sluts?
NWO always reminds me of Stephen Colbert.
“How do I know this? I said it, and then I said it again. So that’s two pieces of evidence.”
@Holly Pervocracy
Well if what you say is true, that those differences are not neatly broken down by gender. How is it only women are saying any particular action is considered “rapey.” Well, other than male feminist bred ideologists?
Doesn’t this statement fly in the face of reality?
NWOslave, if both male PUAs and female sluts can be slutty, how can the genders really be that different? Shouldn’t there be ONLY female sluts or ONLY PUAs if sluttiness is a gender thing?
Right… some women and some men deem a certain behavior rapey, and others disagree. This proves….
Nope, it’s not working.
Both men and women are saying it. (In fact, this discussion originated with David, who is a man, calling something rapey.)
But any time a man says it, you call him a “feminist bred ideologist.”
Both men and women are doing the same thing, but you’re labeling the men differently. The only difference is the one you created in your head.