If you wonder why some dudes get so worked up about “false rape accusations,” it may be because their notion of “seduction” is pretty much indistinguishable from what most of us would call “date rape.” And chances are good that they sort of know this.
Check out this discussion in Reddit’s Seduction subreddit, recently highlighted in ShitRedditSays.
The original poster writes in with a heartrending tale: it seems he can’t get the ladies to touch his penis. Throw5891away writes:
So I have little problem getting numbers, little trouble turning those numbers into dates, I can keep her interested during dates, but i can’t make the move to anything physical beyond a kiss or some light making out.
Let’s have the deets!
A lot of my problem, I think, comes from the fear of possibly making it awkward. I’ve been in a few situations where i’ve tried to slide a hand down the pants of a girl and she turns timid. This is after some over-clothes touching, or pressure with my thigh. Warming them up, i think, is not the major problem. Obviously if a girl says no, i’m not going to push through with it because that’s when it gets awkward.
Yes, trying to stick your fingers in a woman’s vagina when she doesn’t want you to does tend to get a little … awkward.
Beyond me failing at making a first move, it’s nearly impossible for me to get a girl to notice I have an erection and attempt to do something about it.
Maybe you need to wear a t-shirt that says “erection” on it with a big arrow pointing to your crotch? Otherwise how on earth are the ladies you’re making out with ever going to realize you have a boner?
I’m average in size there, so them not noticing is not an issue. I feel like I almost have to physically take their hand and place it on my junk in order to make it happen. And after a while of them paying no attention to my erection (mind you, they’re still gropey elsewhere/into making out), it really starts to make wonder if they’re really into having sex with me at all.
It seems you might just be onto something here. And how on earth can you possibly tell if a woman actually, for real, wants to have sex with you? It’s not like you can ask her directly, because she has the power of speech, or anything like that.
Instead, you’d better ask the dudes on r/seduction. So let’s just see what they have to say.
PuaCurveBall suggests that the best way to avoid the “awkwardness” spoken of earlier is just to ignore it:
I hope this advice doesn’t sounds rapey, but you need to keep going until they seriously tell you no.
Pro-tip: Any bit of advice that starts off with “I hope this advice doesn’t sound rapey” is advice you SHOULD NOT FOLLOW.
Them not telling you firmly to stop (more than just “we shouldn’t be doing this” or “it is too soon”) is the signal. Escalate until they tell you to stop.
Yes, because “we shouldn’t be doing this” is such an ambiguous statement. It could mean anything! It probably is just girl-code for “we should be doing this, so please grab my hand and put it on your dick.”
Either you should get a firm “no, seriously get your hands off me, I’m not ready yet” or you should be having sex with these girls. Everything in the middle is working against you.
So long as she doesn’t literally mace you, you can assume she actually wants you to keep going.
Naturally, the suave Lotherios of the r/seduction community rewarded this sensible advice with upvotes.
Others offered similar advice. Productionx was insistent: “No” means “keep going!”
Women want a man to be dominate. Other women lead you to believe you have to ask for permission, don’t listen to these stupid feminists. Go be a man, if she says no, you say ok, and keep doing exactly what you were doing. You get an erection, make it freaking known!!!
Fangs78 added:
Don’t give up before like the 9-10th time they stop you. Of course, if they are stern and REALLY mean it.
Everyone knows that the first 9 or 10 “no’s” really mean “maybe.”
It’s all part of the art of “seduction.”
This post contains:
My favorite Asian food in Boston (actually Cambridge, because I seriously never cross the river; Camberville 4 Life) is Ittyo in Porter Square.
Tempura udon nom nom nom
Oh, hellkell I WISH I could come over. On the plus side, i’m sure I’ll have nice care packages to open on xmas.
Y’know, I don’t think I’ve spent nearly enough time time in Cambridge, despite living close by almost my whole life.
Zhinxy, we got one! Toffeemacs and Kona coffee. No onion and garlic macadamias, but I can go to World Market after the x-mas rush for those.
Let me know what you get!
Aaahh! 🙂 Now it feels like Christmas. The first cicadas have just started singing.
I’m trying to stay awake until the end of the hockey game and fretting over tomorrow’s baking. Going to the grocery store with my aunt added two more recipes to my plans. I cannot say no to people asking me to make them sweets. 🙂
My baking this time of the year gets out of hand because my cousin’s birthday is tomorrow and my oldest child’s birthday is the 26th. So there’s cheesecake and ridiculous rainbow cake added to the usual Christmas stuff.
@Holly Pervocracy. I remember Ittyo, I would go occasionally after the gym. It was pretty good.
NWO: I guess you’ll have to figure out every single man’s difference and do exactly as he wants. That’s what men have to do for women. Use your intuition.
Nope. The thing you refuse to admit is that you are responsible for what you do. If a man touches a woman, or a woman touches a man, they need permission.
But… no one needs permission to wear clothing. Because that isn’t something we are “doing” to other people. It’s something we are doing to ourselves. If you don’t like what I wear, look somewhere else. If if it makes you pop a woody, go home and deal with it. If it’s too much to take find a restroom and rub one out.
But if you want to do something with someone else, you have to have permission, from taking them to a ballgame, or fucking them blissfully cross-eyed. Sex is like everything else, forcing someone to do it is wrong, just as forcing someone to attend a ballgame, or the opera, or anything else, is wrong.
Hell, you complain that the “state” could force you to do anything, but you think being allowed to force women to have sex is just hunky-dory.
That, my dear boy, is why people call you a moron.
Brandon: Well, if you don’t care about my feelings…then don’t be surprised when I don’t a shit about yours. Equality is a bitch sometimes!
The thing is, from what I can see, hellkell, and a fair number of other commenters, really don’t care about you. Not how you feel when they talk to you, nor what you say in reply. You’ve gone to a fair bit of effort to make it so (e.g. calling lauralot a manhater, just for shits and giggles).
But then you whine about how harshly you are treated, as if you’d done nothing whatsoever which might have engendered it, and as if you’d no idea why someone might retain a negative opninion of you, from one thread to the next.
Then, in phrases so stucturally ironic as to make the little baby Jesus laugh out loud, you go on about how people ought to just say what they feel and not care about the, “whims” of others.
The OP isn’t about non-verbal cues. It’s about denying a woman the right to say no. It’s about ignoring her until she actually lashes out physically. It’s about encouraging rape.
And you are down with that, going on about the difficulty of, “non-verbal” communication, while you blithely say that you understand it just ducks… and ignoring the OP talking about verbal communication.
Why, I wonder, is it that you chose to change the topic, and make an indirect apologia for rape; by pretending the OP was dealing with something subtle, instead of his companion telling him to stop?