So you may have seen the story yesterday about the University of Vermont fraternity that was suspended for sending out a charming little survey that allegedly asked, among other things, “If you could rape someone, who would it be?” (FWIW, the frat now says it was the work of an individual frat member, not the chapter.)
Reading about this incident, I’m guessing that you probably didn’t ask yourself: “I wonder how the guys at the False Rape Society will use this news to push their own agenda?” Heck, I didn’t even think to ask myself that question. But while doing the rounds of the MRA blogs I’ve discovered the answer to that question, and here it is: FRS head honcho Pierce Harlan described the survey as “perhaps a poke at feminism’s fascination with rape,” then denounced it as “indefensible,” then ranted about the evils of false rape accusations. I guess that isn’t really shocking at all.
First, Harlan offered this take on the “who would you rape” question:
I assume the survey was sick humor, a crude satire of the fratboy culture, and perhaps a poke at feminism’s fascination with rape.
Yes, because any time men make rape jokes it’s probably because, you know, feminism, and its wacky obsession with rape.
Then Harlan went on to suggest that rape was no laughing matter – especially when it comes to rape that doesn’t happen:
Whatever it was intended to be, ultimately it is indefensible, because trivializing the word “rape” is no laughing matter, whether it’s a joke about the rape of male prisoners, or the fantasy “rape” of women, or a false rape claim intended to get a guy in, or a woman out of, trouble.
Well, that was quick. Let’s not talk about the trivialization of real rape. Let’s talk about the epidemic of “false rape accusations” that Harlan has convinced himself is the real problem here.
With nary a pause, Harlan moved on to complain about hypothetical feminists making a big deal out of this survey instead of joining him on his crusade:
There most certainly will be an outcry in the feminist blogosphere over this isolated incident
This what incident?
and it will be cited as proof positive to support the myth that ours is a “rape culture.”
Yeah, I wonder why casual jokes about rape would possibly be considered as part of “rape culture.”
A “rape culture,” of course, not only would tolerate but would condone such a puerile survey. Our society does neither. The only “rape” jokes our society condones concerns prison rape — and that’s because society actually encourages prison rape as a sort of “added bonus” punishment for any hapless male who lands in prison. It is ironic that actual prison rape does not garner the outrage that this this sick fratboy humor is generating. Go figure.
This from a guy who doesn’t seem to have ever even bothered to mention the leading anti-prison rape organization, Just Detention, on his web site. (See here for more on the issue on Man Boobz.) Though he does offer three links on his main page to information about the statute of limitation for rape charges, in case anyone reading is worried about getting caught being falsely accused for something they did didn’t do a long time ago.
Meanwhile,rape jokes — and not just prison rape jokes — are everywhere. Harlan, I assume you are at least somewhat familiar with a little site called Reddit, where people not only laugh at rape jokes – they laugh at actual rape!
Meanwhile, in the comments on Harlan’s article, some False Rape Society readers don’t even bother to pretend that the “rape survey” bothers them. According to the commenter called “bad,”
We should be celebrating young men who stand up against misandry. We should be celebrating the frat that said “no means yes” and we should be celebrating the frat that created this survey, if it’s a real story.
An anonymous commenter takes it a step further:
I do not condemn this action,
in fact, I wish I’d thought of it.
It is a brilliant and very appropriate response to the way young men are being treated by college campuses.
When the answer to “who would you like to treat like a rapist” is “all college men”, I think that asking them who they’d like to rape is more than fair.
But it is Harlan’s response to these comments that is the most revealing:
By the way, I read the reaction of Bad and others as a natural backlash … against the unconscionable PC culture of misandry on campus. I happen to disagree with those who suggest this was acceptable, but their remarks should not be construed as evidence that we live in a “rape culture.” Like Steve, I read their comments more as an affirmation that we live in a false rape culture–a culture that more and more men are finding intolerable.
I, on the other hand, doubt that these young men have the first clue about misandry, feminism, or how colleges run roughshod over the rights of young men. I am always amazed when we hear from falsely accused people who “had not idea this goes on.” My guess is they were just being being “funny.” I would, frankly, love to find out I am wrong, and that not only would they never call for a woman to be actually raped, but that this was a protest against the pendulum swinging too far. In that case, I am still not sure I could find it acceptable but it would initiate an entirely different dialogue.
So the survey is “indefensible,” yet a totally understandable reaction to, and protest against, an “unconscionable PC culture of misandry.”
Got it.
EDITED TO ADD: Harlan has written a response, of sorts, to this post. It is a bit — what’s the word I’m looking for here? — zany.
Also I would say the exclusion of envelopment, prison rape and the homeless certainly causes me to doubt the male statistics in the report that 0.9% of men are raped.
maybe you should turn to page 15 where they break down all their data on rape before you start making up objections. (hint: it doesnt say what youre trying to make it say.)
@Sharculese the report say 0.9% of men are raped, while stating that men cannot be raped unless penetrated and missing out prison where alot of male rape occurs. While it is not a report on prisons the report does say how many men are raped, inaccurately.
@Holly Pervocracy
“Okay, here’s another hypothetical, NWO. Say that a woman and a man have both been drinking. The man then holds the woman down and violently rapes her against her protests.”
That is rape. And that is why, the only possible definition of rape is the use of violent force, or unconcious. Date rape that doesn’t fall under either of those categories is not rape.
Yes there is, and why don’t you say the word and be done with it? Ni!
Wow, you’ve now actually given us some context to work with – which was why you were being told . Do you know what good sex looks and sounds like compared to rape? Good sex will frequently involve the other party saying things like “go on”, or “right there”, or “more, more”, or “deeper-deeper”, or even “ohmygodthat’sbrilliant” (shameless borrowing from another poster elsewhere). So slobbering and slopping through drunken sex without force looks like in that instance it’s probably not rape, without wanting to rule out that drunken sex acts are unwise at best and there may be other context issues.
Not all drunken sex is like this though.
@Quackers I didn’t ask you to buy it, I asked you to read the report and method. But it’s alright, you are a feminist and have an agenda, etc… Nonsense.
<I.@Polliwog
“Okay, then there was no rape.”
Yet that is where “survey numbers” come from. That same survey is now considered “fact” when it’s fiction.
…erm, no, the survey numbers come from surveying people, not from a hypothetical situation you came up with. Similarly, a survey about stolen cars does not actually get its data from that analogy I used a few posts up. Go figure!
Authors
Michele C. Black, Kathleen C. Basile, Matthew J. Breiding, Sharon G. Smith
Mikel L. Walters, Melissa T. Merrick
Jieru Chen and Mark R. Stevens
Contributors
Division of Violence Prevention, CDC
Linda L. Dahlberg, Associate Director for Science
E. Lynn Jenkins, Chief, Etiology and Surveillance Branch
Thomas R. Simon, Deputy Associate Director for Science
Debra Karch, Surveillance Team Lead, Etiology and Surveillance Branch
Nimesh Patel, Information Technology Specialist, Etiology and
Surveillance Branch
James A. Mercy, Special Advisor for Global Activities
National Institute of Justice
Bernard Auchter, Senior Social Science Analyst,
Office of Research and Evaluation
Angela Moore, Division Director, Office of Research and Evaluation
Christine Crossland, Senior Social Science Analyst,
Office of Research and Evaluation
Research Triangle Institute, International
Lisa Carley-Baxter, Project Director
Susan Rooker, Associate Project Director
Christopher Krebs, Instrumentation Lead
Andy Petychev, Lead Statistician
Steven Thomas, Analyst
Lilia Filippenko, Programming Lead
Niki Mayo, Survey Specialist
Rodney Baxter, Analyst
Angela Pitts, Analyst
we went over this on the last page. it’s all there in the report you won’t read.
@NWO
I’m not going to name names for you. You can actually look at the study yourself, like I am doing. It does include statisticians, psychologists, scientists and analysts. But lemme guess, if its not from an MRA website its a lie amirite?
hahhahaha!!!
it exaggerates the number of women raped while erasing all male and indeed female prison rape.
It. Wasn’t. A. Study. About. Prison. Rape.
If someone does a study about heart disease, do you decry it for ignoring cancer?
Okay, then. Say that a woman and a man have both been drinking. The man gets on top of the woman, who doesn’t move or say anything, and has sex with her.
How in your squalid little brain is that consent?
(Then again, do you care? I get the impression that you think rape is fair play because Katherine Heigl hasn’t been beaten, or something.)
That is rape. And that is why, the only possible definition of rape is the use of violent force, or unconcious. Date rape that doesn’t fall under either of those categories is not rape.
This continues to be bullshit, no matter how many times you repeat it.
Seriously, there is no way the concept of “consent” can be this confusing to you.
@Quackers
“Says you. Not buying it. You and all other MRAs have agendas. That agenda includes trying destroy rape laws and make all women out to be liars.”
Women do lie about rape. Until you can admit this and hold those women responsible with stiff penalties, (hard time). You are the problem.
Anyway, NWO, it’s a moot point because the survey didn’t ask “have you ever had sex while drunk?” It asked if people had been raped.
Christ, I’m sure 75% of the population has had sex after a couple drinks, the fact that the survey didn’t find 75% of women have been raped should tip you off there that they were talking about actual rape.
while stating that men cannot be raped unless penetrated
Anyone else want to confirm? If this were true it would indeed be a major weakness to the study.
@NWO
not at the large amount you say they do, which usually translates to all women.
The man gets on top of the woman, who doesn’t move or say anything, and has sex with her.
NWO has never had any other kind of sex.
@katz
from the study
‘1 in 71 men (1.4%) in the United States have been raped at some time in their lives’
If you remove attempted raped this reduces to 0.9%
now either your missing what this study says or you and the authors of the study do not consider prison rape to be rape.
read the line again
1 in 71 men (1.4%) in the United States have been raped at some time in their lives
While it is not a study about prison rape it plainly says 1.7% of men experience rape, so I think we can conclude that the study was in part about how many men are raped.
I would also point out it leaves out college dorms, a common belief is that rape is more common while at college thus the rape figure reported here could well be under reported.
@Holly Pervocracy
“Okay, then. Say that a woman and a man have both been drinking. The man gets on top of the woman, who doesn’t move or say anything, and has sex with her.”
How do you know she didn’t enjoy it at the time?
Was it buyers remorse?
You tell me? What was it? Shall we lock up all men on a womans word and let God sort out the guilty?
Well if women lie, then why split hairs about “oh, maybe she was just drunk”? We might as well lie about violent rape while we’re at it.
You can’t even keep your different brands of rape apologism straight.
(I still don’t know why women would lie, on a survey that gives them no money and puts no one in jail, but whatever, I’m sure they were all radical feminists like so many people in the general population are.)
@ kats again
from the study
‘1 in 71 men (1.4%) in the United States have been raped at some time in their lives, including completed forced penetration, attempted forced penetration, or alcohol/drug facilitated completed penetration.’
Later on the study mentions
‘Approximately 1 in 21 men (4.8%) reported that they were made to penetrate someone else during their lifetime;’
But they do not count this as rape.
1 in 71 men (1.4%) in the United States have been raped at some time in their lives
I’m missing the part where that means it had to be penetration.
Whoops, we’re posting past each other. Sorry.
NWO: Go ahead and, “up the ante”, just like the McD’s guy. The law is against you, and I’m glad. I’m against you, and I’m glad. Most of the western world is against you, and I’m glad, because it’s the way it should be.