So you may have seen the story yesterday about the University of Vermont fraternity that was suspended for sending out a charming little survey that allegedly asked, among other things, “If you could rape someone, who would it be?” (FWIW, the frat now says it was the work of an individual frat member, not the chapter.)
Reading about this incident, I’m guessing that you probably didn’t ask yourself: “I wonder how the guys at the False Rape Society will use this news to push their own agenda?” Heck, I didn’t even think to ask myself that question. But while doing the rounds of the MRA blogs I’ve discovered the answer to that question, and here it is: FRS head honcho Pierce Harlan described the survey as “perhaps a poke at feminism’s fascination with rape,” then denounced it as “indefensible,” then ranted about the evils of false rape accusations. I guess that isn’t really shocking at all.
First, Harlan offered this take on the “who would you rape” question:
I assume the survey was sick humor, a crude satire of the fratboy culture, and perhaps a poke at feminism’s fascination with rape.
Yes, because any time men make rape jokes it’s probably because, you know, feminism, and its wacky obsession with rape.
Then Harlan went on to suggest that rape was no laughing matter – especially when it comes to rape that doesn’t happen:
Whatever it was intended to be, ultimately it is indefensible, because trivializing the word “rape” is no laughing matter, whether it’s a joke about the rape of male prisoners, or the fantasy “rape” of women, or a false rape claim intended to get a guy in, or a woman out of, trouble.
Well, that was quick. Let’s not talk about the trivialization of real rape. Let’s talk about the epidemic of “false rape accusations” that Harlan has convinced himself is the real problem here.
With nary a pause, Harlan moved on to complain about hypothetical feminists making a big deal out of this survey instead of joining him on his crusade:
There most certainly will be an outcry in the feminist blogosphere over this isolated incident
This what incident?
and it will be cited as proof positive to support the myth that ours is a “rape culture.”
Yeah, I wonder why casual jokes about rape would possibly be considered as part of “rape culture.”
A “rape culture,” of course, not only would tolerate but would condone such a puerile survey. Our society does neither. The only “rape” jokes our society condones concerns prison rape — and that’s because society actually encourages prison rape as a sort of “added bonus” punishment for any hapless male who lands in prison. It is ironic that actual prison rape does not garner the outrage that this this sick fratboy humor is generating. Go figure.
This from a guy who doesn’t seem to have ever even bothered to mention the leading anti-prison rape organization, Just Detention, on his web site. (See here for more on the issue on Man Boobz.) Though he does offer three links on his main page to information about the statute of limitation for rape charges, in case anyone reading is worried about getting caught being falsely accused for something they did didn’t do a long time ago.
Meanwhile,rape jokes — and not just prison rape jokes — are everywhere. Harlan, I assume you are at least somewhat familiar with a little site called Reddit, where people not only laugh at rape jokes – they laugh at actual rape!
Meanwhile, in the comments on Harlan’s article, some False Rape Society readers don’t even bother to pretend that the “rape survey” bothers them. According to the commenter called “bad,”
We should be celebrating young men who stand up against misandry. We should be celebrating the frat that said “no means yes” and we should be celebrating the frat that created this survey, if it’s a real story.
An anonymous commenter takes it a step further:
I do not condemn this action,
in fact, I wish I’d thought of it.
It is a brilliant and very appropriate response to the way young men are being treated by college campuses.
When the answer to “who would you like to treat like a rapist” is “all college men”, I think that asking them who they’d like to rape is more than fair.
But it is Harlan’s response to these comments that is the most revealing:
By the way, I read the reaction of Bad and others as a natural backlash … against the unconscionable PC culture of misandry on campus. I happen to disagree with those who suggest this was acceptable, but their remarks should not be construed as evidence that we live in a “rape culture.” Like Steve, I read their comments more as an affirmation that we live in a false rape culture–a culture that more and more men are finding intolerable.
I, on the other hand, doubt that these young men have the first clue about misandry, feminism, or how colleges run roughshod over the rights of young men. I am always amazed when we hear from falsely accused people who “had not idea this goes on.” My guess is they were just being being “funny.” I would, frankly, love to find out I am wrong, and that not only would they never call for a woman to be actually raped, but that this was a protest against the pendulum swinging too far. In that case, I am still not sure I could find it acceptable but it would initiate an entirely different dialogue.
So the survey is “indefensible,” yet a totally understandable reaction to, and protest against, an “unconscionable PC culture of misandry.”
Got it.
EDITED TO ADD: Harlan has written a response, of sorts, to this post. It is a bit — what’s the word I’m looking for here? — zany.
Exactly. Rape culture.
A culture where that is okay–where a significant portion of the population can’t tell the difference between “I can’t defend myself right now” and “I’d like to have sex right now”–and where an even bigger portion of the population defends it–that’s a rape culture.
You fail again: you still haven’t disclosed the crucial item that determines whether it was rape or not.
if said ‘normal guy’ starts blaming rape victims for being raped, of course, he crosses the line into amoral creep, and it’s understandable why most women would stay away from him. it’s because he’s a selfish asshole.
“College women, if you’d like to virtually eliminate your chances of being raped while at school, please don’t go to douche bag frat houses in the first place. But we all know that won’t happen because the meat-heads there work out 4 hours per day to keep 6-pack abs, big arms etc. and the ladies will have nothing less. Since so many women are literally throwing themselves at these d-bags, it’s no surprise when they start to feel entitled to nail every woman they fancy that walks through the door. That’s entitlement. A normal guy wanting to be loved and cuddled once in a while, to be able to share his life and loves with a woman, and not wanting to be lonely because he doesn’t look nearly perfect and isn’t in some douchey fraternity is NOT entitlement. Love and affection are actual human NEEDS, sex is not.
Ladies, stop thinking with the clitoris for one minute and realize that douchey frat bros are going to be just that, douchey frat bros. Don’t be surprised when they do something douchey to you or your friends. Give normal men a chance to know you, love you, car about you, think about you, show compassion for you, for once.”
Observe the thing of wonder that is these two paragraphs posted in conjunction with each other. Marvel at the level of cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy that it takes to claim to be showing compassion for the women who you’ve just blamed for being raped.
Sexbots – get therapy.
A “rape culture”? You’ve got to be shitting me!
If a person get’s wasted at a douchey frat-bro party and passes out on the couch in the basement, don’t be surprised when one of the douches does what makes them a douche.
The fascinating troll art of contradicting oneself in consecutive sentences.
‘I suppose the rape apologists and rape deniers will say the CDC’s nearly 1 in 5 rape or attempted rape is a bunch of feminist lies too amirite? ‘ – while I’m not a rape apologist the CDC study is indeed inaccurate, it exaggerates the number of women raped while erasing all male and indeed female prison rape.
If a guy thinks that I deserve to be raped for going to a frat party, I don’t think he’s quite as full of caring and compassion as he thinks he is.
@Xanthe
There is no crucial item. They were drunk. They slobbered and slopped their way thru some drunken sex. No force was used. No one suffered any physical damage. How can it possibly be rape?
<I.@Polliwog
There was no rape. They were both drunk and had sex. Neither party did anything wrong.
Okay, then there was no rape. NO ONE is suggesting that if they both freely consented to sex, anyone got raped. We are saying that “they were equally drunk” is not some magical “now rape can’t happen!” card. If one of them was too incapacitated to consent (by which no one means “kind of tipsy” – we mean things like “unconscious” or “unable to move” or “unaware of their surroundings”) then that person did not consent. If one of them said “no,” that person did not consent. Both of these things are true regardless of how drunk the other person may or may not be.
i’m glad we can add epidemiologist and statistician to the list of things ullere is going to claim to be better at than professionals
Women already take precautions and adopt behavioural strategies to minimise risk, but these can fail because it is impossible to foresee all circumstances one might be put into and it is hard to be hyper-vigilant in every social situation: rape culture blames women for being paranoid when they are merely attempting to minimise risk, and likewise rape culture blames women for provoking rape when those precautions fail.
Well what if she is the initiator and He accepts her advances? Is that rape too?
Holly, do you not see how situations like these are not as cut and dry as you would like to think they are? If there is force involved then yes, it IS rape drunk or sober. But if a drunk person accepts an offer for sex from another drunk person, has intercourse, and then feels regret later on, and one accuses the other of rape, I call bullshit!
How can it possibly be rape?
If someone did not consent.
How many times do we have to answer this question?
What Polliwog said.
If two people are drunk, that doesn’t mean it’s always rape or never rape. It means that consent still matters.
So if the man and woman both said “YAY SEX!” while relatively lucid, then no, it was not rape.
If the man initiated sex and the woman did not consent (or was so drunk as for consent to be meaningless), then the man raped the woman.
If the woman initiated sex and the man did not consent (or was so drunk as for consent to be meaningless), then the woman raped the man.
@Ullere
Hmmm…who do I trust…a reddit MRA with an agenda, or a survey from a credible organization done by professionals?
and because they didn’t include prison rape, all of a sudden this renders all other conclusions this survey came too as useless?
everyone should go read this, fyi. it’s hilariously tantrum-y at the same time he’s accusing david of having a conniption, and the way harlan can twist any statement to make himself into the victim is priceless.
SexBots, while we’re on the subject of not doing stupid shit, how ’bout you not roll up in here with your victim blaming and rape apology while making all about you and your sad-sack issues (which we have all heard about at great length before), OK?
@Polliwog
“Okay, then there was no rape.”
Yet that is where “survey numbers” come from. That same survey is now considered “fact” when it’s fiction.
Sexbots said
That’s not true. Most women wouldn’t care how attractive someone is if zie is a rapist or murderer. Where did you come up with this crap?
@ quackers, no by all means read the survey and methods used for yourself. Come to your own conclusions. I simply pointed out some of the more obvious flaws. The counting of attempted rapes, attempted physical assaults towards the rape figures seems very suspicious. Either way it has come a long way from the 1 in 4 stats that are thrown around, so either great progress has been made in fighting rape or great progress has been made in reaching a more accurate figure.
Kendra, five bucks say that now he brings up serial killers having wives and women “throwing themselves” at them.
i pointed this out already, but since ullere didnt notice, there’s a very good reason this survey didn’t include prison rape- it’s not a survey of prisoners. there’s a lot of differences between inmates and the population at large that makes conflating the two silly. just because inmate-on-inmate violence isn’t within the scope of the survey doesn’t mean it ‘erases’ prison rape. that’s terrible logic.
Okay, here’s another hypothetical, NWO. Say that a woman and a man have both been drinking. The man then holds the woman down and violently rapes her against her protests.
Would you then declare it “obviously just a drunken misunderstanding, it’s feminist hysteria to call that rape” just because they were both drunk?
That’s the kind of detail your story might be missing. It’s not always subtle.
@Quackers
” Hmmm…who do I trust…a reddit MRA with an agenda, or a survey from a credible organization done by professionals?”
Do you know who these “credible” people are? What are their names? Who are they? You’re calling something “credible” without knowing if a suvey was even really taken? The fact is, you don’t know if they threw darts at a dartboard to come up with these numbers. Do you?
Says you. Not buying it. You and all other MRAs have agendas. That agenda includes trying destroy rape laws and make all women out to be liars.