So you may have seen the story yesterday about the University of Vermont fraternity that was suspended for sending out a charming little survey that allegedly asked, among other things, “If you could rape someone, who would it be?” (FWIW, the frat now says it was the work of an individual frat member, not the chapter.)
Reading about this incident, I’m guessing that you probably didn’t ask yourself: “I wonder how the guys at the False Rape Society will use this news to push their own agenda?” Heck, I didn’t even think to ask myself that question. But while doing the rounds of the MRA blogs I’ve discovered the answer to that question, and here it is: FRS head honcho Pierce Harlan described the survey as “perhaps a poke at feminism’s fascination with rape,” then denounced it as “indefensible,” then ranted about the evils of false rape accusations. I guess that isn’t really shocking at all.
First, Harlan offered this take on the “who would you rape” question:
I assume the survey was sick humor, a crude satire of the fratboy culture, and perhaps a poke at feminism’s fascination with rape.
Yes, because any time men make rape jokes it’s probably because, you know, feminism, and its wacky obsession with rape.
Then Harlan went on to suggest that rape was no laughing matter – especially when it comes to rape that doesn’t happen:
Whatever it was intended to be, ultimately it is indefensible, because trivializing the word “rape” is no laughing matter, whether it’s a joke about the rape of male prisoners, or the fantasy “rape” of women, or a false rape claim intended to get a guy in, or a woman out of, trouble.
Well, that was quick. Let’s not talk about the trivialization of real rape. Let’s talk about the epidemic of “false rape accusations” that Harlan has convinced himself is the real problem here.
With nary a pause, Harlan moved on to complain about hypothetical feminists making a big deal out of this survey instead of joining him on his crusade:
There most certainly will be an outcry in the feminist blogosphere over this isolated incident
This what incident?
and it will be cited as proof positive to support the myth that ours is a “rape culture.”
Yeah, I wonder why casual jokes about rape would possibly be considered as part of “rape culture.”
A “rape culture,” of course, not only would tolerate but would condone such a puerile survey. Our society does neither. The only “rape” jokes our society condones concerns prison rape — and that’s because society actually encourages prison rape as a sort of “added bonus” punishment for any hapless male who lands in prison. It is ironic that actual prison rape does not garner the outrage that this this sick fratboy humor is generating. Go figure.
This from a guy who doesn’t seem to have ever even bothered to mention the leading anti-prison rape organization, Just Detention, on his web site. (See here for more on the issue on Man Boobz.) Though he does offer three links on his main page to information about the statute of limitation for rape charges, in case anyone reading is worried about getting caught being falsely accused for something they did didn’t do a long time ago.
Meanwhile,rape jokes — and not just prison rape jokes — are everywhere. Harlan, I assume you are at least somewhat familiar with a little site called Reddit, where people not only laugh at rape jokes – they laugh at actual rape!
Meanwhile, in the comments on Harlan’s article, some False Rape Society readers don’t even bother to pretend that the “rape survey” bothers them. According to the commenter called “bad,”
We should be celebrating young men who stand up against misandry. We should be celebrating the frat that said “no means yes” and we should be celebrating the frat that created this survey, if it’s a real story.
An anonymous commenter takes it a step further:
I do not condemn this action,
in fact, I wish I’d thought of it.
It is a brilliant and very appropriate response to the way young men are being treated by college campuses.
When the answer to “who would you like to treat like a rapist” is “all college men”, I think that asking them who they’d like to rape is more than fair.
But it is Harlan’s response to these comments that is the most revealing:
By the way, I read the reaction of Bad and others as a natural backlash … against the unconscionable PC culture of misandry on campus. I happen to disagree with those who suggest this was acceptable, but their remarks should not be construed as evidence that we live in a “rape culture.” Like Steve, I read their comments more as an affirmation that we live in a false rape culture–a culture that more and more men are finding intolerable.
I, on the other hand, doubt that these young men have the first clue about misandry, feminism, or how colleges run roughshod over the rights of young men. I am always amazed when we hear from falsely accused people who “had not idea this goes on.” My guess is they were just being being “funny.” I would, frankly, love to find out I am wrong, and that not only would they never call for a woman to be actually raped, but that this was a protest against the pendulum swinging too far. In that case, I am still not sure I could find it acceptable but it would initiate an entirely different dialogue.
So the survey is “indefensible,” yet a totally understandable reaction to, and protest against, an “unconscionable PC culture of misandry.”
Got it.
EDITED TO ADD: Harlan has written a response, of sorts, to this post. It is a bit — what’s the word I’m looking for here? — zany.
NWOSlave:
Believe me, I’d have reacted the same way if I was single. Call me weird, but if I find someone breaking into my house, I don’t generally want to have sex with them. And call me old-fashioned (though I suspect I’m younger than you), but I generally need to have a minimum amount of social interaction before doing the nasty – you know, finding out if I actually like the woman in question. And if she doesn’t offer me that option, then I suspect I wouldn’t like her very much, and certainly wouldn’t want to have sex with her.
(I have no doubt that you’d fall to your knees and thank God for answering your prayers… but what was that you said about individuals?)
Even if Vin Diesel was involved in the situation NWOslave describes I think my first thought would be more along the lines of “WTF AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING?” than “Yay! Sexytimes!”
If I broke into a man’s house I’d expect him to be angry and frightened, and that’s before I even attempted to “envelope” him.
Just catching up with the thread–NWO managed to surpass himself in terms of being a vile human. Every time I think he can’t get worse, he does. This barrel has no bottom.
Spear, adding to the virtual hugs if you want them, NWO was truly gross.
One thing (among many) about NWO’s usual bullshit that is both false and seriously misandric is his apparent belief that arousal and and attraction is, for (straight) men, no more complex than “Man sees lady-flesh, becomes aroused.”
A personal counter-example, related to Spearhafoc’s recently implemented NWO response strategy: I think this puts me squarely in the minority among female-attracted USians, but I for one am not attracted to Christina Hendricks. And honestly, I really couldn’t tell you why. It’s not because I think she’s a bad actress; I don’t. It’s certainly not because I’m averse to pretty redheads with huge breasts; I’m not.
So there it is. I think she’s good-looking, I think she’s talented, but for some reason unknown even to me, I don’t find her sexy. Male arousal: It’s fucking complicated.
NWO: You could teach yourself what’s an appropriate way to act. You say you want one-upmanship. Fine. Since your idea of “proper” is to treat women as subhuman, and you would have them be slaves, and targets for any man who wanted to abuse them… I’m against you.
It’s not men I am blaming, it’s people like you (yes, people, because there are women who think the same misguided and twisted things you think; they are just as wrong, and worthy of scorn as you are, no more, no less).
I do think teaching people the proper way to act is the thing to do. I just think proper equals not doing actual harm to others.
You think raping little girls is proper, and that chastising, people who are in favor of that is oppression. So you are self-serving, two-faced, lying, perversion of humanity.
I do wonder sometimes how much of NWOs rage and need to try to impose his views on others is based on a recognition at some level that there’s something very odd about his sexuality, and that most men’s sexuality does not work the way his does. If he pretends that his various violent urges and inappropriate sexual responses (to children, etc) are universal norms, then he doesn’t have to do the hard work of coming to terms with his own feelings and the fact that some of them can never be acted on in an ethical way. Much easier to just pretend that all men are the way he is and just not being honest about it, and pretend that women and girls are responsible for his responses to them.
NWO: My question still stands for any who can answer in a coherent logical fashion.
No one can, it’s not a logical or coherent question. It has nothing to do with the issue. The issue is, “did a group of girls assault a boy, and was that assault sexual in nature?”
The answer to the first part is, yes. The answer to the second is maybe.
The follow on question is, “is this wrong?”, to which the answer is yes, it is completely and totally wrong and those girls deserve to be punished.
None of this has anything to do with their sexuality, and sexuality has nothing to do with reproduction, and what happened 200 years ago has nothing to do with it today. 200 years ago it would have been impossible to engage in milk production the way it is now done, so milk production must be about small farms and manual milking, if it weren’t for horse-drawn carts no one but farmers would have milk, anyone who is working to make it possible for people hundreds of miles from a dairy to have milk is perverting nature because that used to be impossible, so it’s really all about cheese and butter;
NWO: You seem to think any action which incidentally causes a strong reaction is deserving of that reaction being fulfilled, and that any person who does such a thing is morally culpable for the thing which comes of that strong reaction.
So if someone does something that angers someone is that person responsible for the angry person harming them?
I like both cheese and butter much better than milk. Why are you going against nature in a way that offends me so, NWO?
Would you rather have some girl come over your house, sexually arouse you then up and leave?
Would you rather have some girl come over your house, sexually arouse you, envelope you without consent until you orgasm, and then leave?
The first one. Every time. Every day for the rest of my life.
Call me a liar if it makes you feel better to know there are men stronger of will, and more upstanding of purpose then you are. Men who are more christian (because the bible you say is all important says that what you are babbling to the world is a sin).
Deny the facts, I don’t care, because I have spoken the truth: you have eyes but refuse to see, and you have ears but refuse to hear. All I can do is hope, someday, you stop closing your eyes, and plugging your ears.
I don’t expect it, but I can hope. A man’s reach should exceed his grasp, or what’s a heaven for?
NWO:The conversation has moved on past the video. We’re now discussing, well I’m being told that men and women are the same and have indentical sexualities. I disagree, making me a misogynist.
It’s not that you disagree, it’s that you are talking utter ballocks about the difference. You think men are slavering beasts, whom women dare not arouse; because to not fuck a dude who got turned on looking at her is the same as being raped.
Then you prattle on that as a result if the man rapes such a woman, it’s no foul, because he’s just defending himself.
We are saying that sexuality is about what one does when fucking, things like blowjobs, and frottage, and tribadism, and clam-diving, and pegging and sodomy and good old-fashioned fucking.
I think <a href =http://www.christinahendricksgallery.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Mad-Men-Press-Conference-3of4.jpgthis is a really good shot of her. Mind you I think she’s attractive, but not “oh my GOD!, must have her!” attractive.
Crap: This
@Pecunium
“I do think teaching people the proper way to act is the thing to do. I just think proper equals not doing actual harm to others.”
You say teaching people to act proper, and you say doing no harm yet you preach the opposite. Promoting little girls and grown women to dress and act sexually isn’t proper, yet you endorse it. That endorsement, those same girls and women, by their purposeful actions is the cause of all sexual dysfunction in men. It’s also how you build the finest rapists in the world.
Wether those violent rapists raped modestly clothed women or skantilly clothed women is irrelevant. They were built from the ground up thru sexual arousal, denial, frustration and the all too non-frequent mockery by women. We do after all pride ourselves for the rape culture we live in in the States.
Does a sexily clad grown woman change into something more appropriate in front of young boys entering puberty? Of course not, she doesn’t care that her actions have an effect on young boys. She is simply following her animal instinct. She hasn’t evolved past an animal state by behaving in such a manner, yet she demands all men/boys to be evolved byond an animal state.
—————-
“You think raping little girls is proper, and that chastising, people who are in favor of that is oppression. So you are self-serving, two-faced, lying, perversion of humanity.”
I’ll state my position again.
A man who rapes by his actions is being sexually irresponsible.
A woman who sexually arouses men by her actions is being sexually irresponsible.
I promote sexual responsibility across the board.
The only reason for any man to be a feminist is acceptance by women as a whole. Our entire society revolves around being accepted by women. Every area of modern day society propogates the notion that a mans “goodness” is dependent upon his acceptance by women. The more women that accept him the higher his “goodness.” Any man who stands up for any woman reguardless of her actions in considered good.
Every site that is supposedly about men being better, revolves around what men can do for women. The GMP for example. Go to any UN or Guv site and type in men. You’ll get a listing of how to help women. Try any MSM outlet, it’s the same. You’re accepted as “good” on this site because you agree with women. My self-esteem doesn’t revolve around the quantity of women that accept me or give me attention. Nor should it.
NWO: You say teaching people to act proper, and you say doing no harm yet you preach the opposite.
No. What you fail to see is that “proper” isn’t an objective term. You think it’s proper to rape women. I don’t. See how that works?
You think keeping women as slaves is proper. I don’t.
It’s very simple really.
I’ll state my position again.
And you’ll lie about it again.
A man who rapes by his actions is being sexually irresponsible.
A woman who sexually arouses men by her actions is being sexually irresponsible.
I promote sexual responsibility across the board.
No, you don’t, because you say that a woman who “arouses” a man has, by her,”irresponsibility”, justified his raping of her. So what you promote is women living in fear of wearing the wrong thing, and men raping them if they feel like it.
Because all he has to say, in NWOLand, is, “she arouse me” and then it’s just ducks to rape her, even if she’s an 11 year old child.
That’s what you want. It’s what you promote. A world where men can rape women, and it’s always the woman’s fault.
It’s why you are wrong.
NWO: Men have no responsibility to control their arousal? Or no ability? Because they way you define women being arousing seems to be: Women exist, therefore they are in some way arousing men.
HEY NWO
WHAT SHOULD WOMEN DRESS LIKE?
Ozy: I don’t think it matters, because no matter what we wear, we’re still naked under the clothes, and that might arouse men.
My self esteem isn’t about how women think of me. It’s about how I think of me. I don’t need outside validation.
I am a feminist because I think women are people. As people women deserve to be treated as I would treat men. I think men should be allowed to do what they like, so long as it causes no actual harm to others, ergo I think the same of women.
it’s very simple really.
I think rape is wrong, so I say so.
I think people should be allowed to wear what they like, so I say so.
I think people should be allowed to sleep with whom they like.
I think people should be allowed to not sleep with whom they don’t like.
I think keeping people as slaves is wrong.
You don’t think any of those things. That’s why we disagree. That’s why I think you are not a decent human being. You think rape is ok. You think making people do things like wear clothes you approve of is ok. You think telling them they can’t have sex with whom they please is ok. You think keeping slaves is ok.
Which means I don’t think you are ok. If you don’t understand that, I don’t care. If you aren’t bothered by it, I don’t care. If what I do say angers you, offends you, or otherwise causes strong reactions in you, then I am pleased.
Because you have earned my disapprobation. If I can help in that, I’ll be a happier man.
You deserve to be mocked and ridiculed. You deserve to live a life of obloquy, derision and disgrace; going to a nameless grave, unwept, unhonored and unsung.
@KathleenB
Must we go over the differences in male and female sexuality again?
———–
@Pecunium
I simply say both are wrong and neither justifies the other. You on the other hand excuse one so women will call you good.
@ozymandias42
I’ve answered one or two of Pecunium questions or assertation, whatever the case may be. How about you answer one of mine? Are ya game?
@ozymandias42
A little manno ziemanno as it were?
” Promoting little girls and grown women to dress and act sexually isn’t proper, yet you endorse it.”
Now there’s a fascinating Freudian slip. Grown women shouldn’t act sexually? What, at all, ever? You’d prefer them to just kind of lie there passively even when they’re actually having sex?
Maybe Meller will offer to share his dolls with you.
@ozymandias42
C’mon Ozy, doncha wanna play?