So you may have seen the story yesterday about the University of Vermont fraternity that was suspended for sending out a charming little survey that allegedly asked, among other things, “If you could rape someone, who would it be?” (FWIW, the frat now says it was the work of an individual frat member, not the chapter.)
Reading about this incident, I’m guessing that you probably didn’t ask yourself: “I wonder how the guys at the False Rape Society will use this news to push their own agenda?” Heck, I didn’t even think to ask myself that question. But while doing the rounds of the MRA blogs I’ve discovered the answer to that question, and here it is: FRS head honcho Pierce Harlan described the survey as “perhaps a poke at feminism’s fascination with rape,” then denounced it as “indefensible,” then ranted about the evils of false rape accusations. I guess that isn’t really shocking at all.
First, Harlan offered this take on the “who would you rape” question:
I assume the survey was sick humor, a crude satire of the fratboy culture, and perhaps a poke at feminism’s fascination with rape.
Yes, because any time men make rape jokes it’s probably because, you know, feminism, and its wacky obsession with rape.
Then Harlan went on to suggest that rape was no laughing matter – especially when it comes to rape that doesn’t happen:
Whatever it was intended to be, ultimately it is indefensible, because trivializing the word “rape” is no laughing matter, whether it’s a joke about the rape of male prisoners, or the fantasy “rape” of women, or a false rape claim intended to get a guy in, or a woman out of, trouble.
Well, that was quick. Let’s not talk about the trivialization of real rape. Let’s talk about the epidemic of “false rape accusations” that Harlan has convinced himself is the real problem here.
With nary a pause, Harlan moved on to complain about hypothetical feminists making a big deal out of this survey instead of joining him on his crusade:
There most certainly will be an outcry in the feminist blogosphere over this isolated incident
This what incident?
and it will be cited as proof positive to support the myth that ours is a “rape culture.”
Yeah, I wonder why casual jokes about rape would possibly be considered as part of “rape culture.”
A “rape culture,” of course, not only would tolerate but would condone such a puerile survey. Our society does neither. The only “rape” jokes our society condones concerns prison rape — and that’s because society actually encourages prison rape as a sort of “added bonus” punishment for any hapless male who lands in prison. It is ironic that actual prison rape does not garner the outrage that this this sick fratboy humor is generating. Go figure.
This from a guy who doesn’t seem to have ever even bothered to mention the leading anti-prison rape organization, Just Detention, on his web site. (See here for more on the issue on Man Boobz.) Though he does offer three links on his main page to information about the statute of limitation for rape charges, in case anyone reading is worried about getting caught being falsely accused for something they did didn’t do a long time ago.
Meanwhile,rape jokes — and not just prison rape jokes — are everywhere. Harlan, I assume you are at least somewhat familiar with a little site called Reddit, where people not only laugh at rape jokes – they laugh at actual rape!
Meanwhile, in the comments on Harlan’s article, some False Rape Society readers don’t even bother to pretend that the “rape survey” bothers them. According to the commenter called “bad,”
We should be celebrating young men who stand up against misandry. We should be celebrating the frat that said “no means yes” and we should be celebrating the frat that created this survey, if it’s a real story.
An anonymous commenter takes it a step further:
I do not condemn this action,
in fact, I wish I’d thought of it.
It is a brilliant and very appropriate response to the way young men are being treated by college campuses.
When the answer to “who would you like to treat like a rapist” is “all college men”, I think that asking them who they’d like to rape is more than fair.
But it is Harlan’s response to these comments that is the most revealing:
By the way, I read the reaction of Bad and others as a natural backlash … against the unconscionable PC culture of misandry on campus. I happen to disagree with those who suggest this was acceptable, but their remarks should not be construed as evidence that we live in a “rape culture.” Like Steve, I read their comments more as an affirmation that we live in a false rape culture–a culture that more and more men are finding intolerable.
I, on the other hand, doubt that these young men have the first clue about misandry, feminism, or how colleges run roughshod over the rights of young men. I am always amazed when we hear from falsely accused people who “had not idea this goes on.” My guess is they were just being being “funny.” I would, frankly, love to find out I am wrong, and that not only would they never call for a woman to be actually raped, but that this was a protest against the pendulum swinging too far. In that case, I am still not sure I could find it acceptable but it would initiate an entirely different dialogue.
So the survey is “indefensible,” yet a totally understandable reaction to, and protest against, an “unconscionable PC culture of misandry.”
Got it.
EDITED TO ADD: Harlan has written a response, of sorts, to this post. It is a bit — what’s the word I’m looking for here? — zany.
WE HAVE A WINNER, and that winner is called “I don’t know what ‘consent’ means, I just stick my dick in when the moment feels right and shit, so I have no idea when one of those false rape accusation things might happen to me afterwards!”
On the other hand, if what you mean by this is that people really have had sex with you without your consent, then I’m sorry. But please understand this means that you were violated and didn’t recognize it at the time, not that it must be okay because you lived through it.
I’m a woman and I’ve had sex that I’ve later regretted. The guy either turned out to be a complete asscrumpet, or was wholly inconsiderate towards me, etc., but I have never, not once, ever thought to accuse him of rape in order to get revenge. In fact, I have never met any woman who has done this. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but I have a hard time believing some of these guys who claim it happens like all the time.
I don’t even know any men who this has happened to.
Where are these guys getting their information?
Also, it has become painfully obvious after reading what a lot of these guys write, their fundamental understanding of what constitutes rape is way off base. Some of them think that rape is only rape if, I dunno, the rapist beats the shit out of the victim as well. I’m fairly certain that to some them, a little coercive, datey-rapey sex isn’t actually rape so hey, ‘false accusation!’
But to be fair to one and all, yes, it is horrible to be accused of a crime if you’re innocent. No one has really said otherwise.
“…Do you get false-rape-accused every month?
It’s not a normal male experience.”
No, but living in fear of false accusations is indeed a normal male experience. But even if not, I made that analogy only to point out that one should not judge other people’s suffering if one cannot know the extent of it. When it comes to things like periods, I rely entirely on the word of those who experienced it. Either that or I won’t say anything on something I don’t know about. Pity that’s not contagious.
“I think it’s telling that most MRA concern about false rape accusations (in general, not singling you out, Adi) is about accusations from women they’ve slept with.”
BINGO. So, either these dudes have a little trouble with consent and they know it, therefore magically all women are chomping at the bit to accuse of them rape for fabulous prizes, OR they’re garden variety whiny bigots who make up false stories of about being falsely accused just to hurt others.
Maybe both.
++
“Thankfully I can see the MGTOW movement being far more successful than the secret dykey treehouse club ever was for a number of reasons, both emotional and sexual. A relationship without a man is like an army without a general or a football team without a coach, destined to flounder about and collapse.”
So, you’re a multi-faceted bigot AND a moron. Interesting. Do you need to write reminders to inhale and exhale on your forearms?
No I was quite serious about it. Surprised? I’m not surprised you’re surprised.
No, but living in fear of false accusations is indeed a normal rapist experience.
FTFY.
what are you on? i’ve never for a second in my life worried about being falsely accused of rape, and i don’t think any of my other male friends have either. just because it’s your particular bugaboo doesn’t make it a ‘normal male experience’.
To point out the obvious:
When fratboys circulate questionnaires of the “Who would you rape?” variety, it proves they are NOT, in fact, living in fear of being falsely accused of rape. Similarly, fratboys who go out on campus and chant “No means yes, yes mean anal”, that too shows they are not living in fear of being falsely accused of rape. In fact, it’s proof they are not afraid of ANY kind of of rape accusation.
Why do you have that fear?
Have you ever been falsely accused of anything?
Do you refuse to get consent from women frequently when engaging in sexual intercourse? Do you have sex with intoxicated people all the time?
Do you drug people on purpose so you can have sex with them?
Do you know women who run to the police every second of the day to report rapes?
Have you even read an indictment for a rape accusation?
Police report?
Search warrant?
Where is this fear coming from?
I have just one more question:
Do all of you who have talked to me (except Pecunium) consider yourselves feminists? I know Ozy does.
Adi: Yes, I consider myself a feminist.
Adi: yes, I consider myself a feminist.
Does that mean I feel have to fix everyone’s problem’s? No.
No, but living in fear of false accusations is indeed a normal male experience.
No, it’s really not. Seriously. Most men go about their lives without ever particularly worrying about anything of the sort, in the same way that most people of both genders don’t live their life in fear of being accused of stealing someone’s car. I mean, someone could jump out of the bushes behind my house and accuse me of having stolen their car right now! But they almost certainly won’t, because, really, why the hell would they?
I consider myself a feminist, and if you think that sets me up for a “gotcha,” then you don’t know what the word “feminist” means.
Fucking apostrophes and missing words, how do they work?
Typing r hard.
Holly, I’m pretty sure his big “gotcha’s” going to be that if we consider ourselves feminists, we should totally take on false accusations and make it all better for the men. But we’re not making it JOB #1, so GOTCHA.
Women can suffer from a rumor that she is a “slut” that will have sex with anyone, letting rapists know she is a good target.
Perhaps there should be some advocacy for people wrongly accused of crimes but not just for people accused of rape though.
And this.
And the huge number of rapes that go unreported. Statistically, a rapist barely has to fear incarceration for rape, let alone an average guy.
It’s really not, Adi. Most men don’t even have enough sex partners in a lifetime to constantly worry about being accused of rape (I believe the average number for men is something like 7). Most men who are married to women have a relatively secure romantic and sexual life with their wife, and they don’t worry that their wife is suddenly going to accuse them of rape to steal the kids and car or whatever. Most men understand that women are not crazy harpies who make shit up out of the blue to hurt them, and don’t generally fear that their partners or acquaintances are going to accuse them of rape unless they 1. actually did sexually assault the person or 2. the person is unusually emotionally unstable and has had a history of that sort of thing.
Seriously Adi, ask your male friends if they make changes in their life due to fear of false rape accusations– I don’t think many men do. No man I’ve ever known has told me about this. If you were to ask your female friends if they make changes in their lives in order to avoid being raped, nearly all of them would say that they do.
That’s a pretty old definition of rape and I’m surprised you haven’t heard it before. As Holly said, if someone actually has had sex with you or touched you sexually without your consent, then that was sexual assault. If you are emotionally ok about it, then that’s fine. I hope you really are alright. But many people are not, and non-consensual sex does not need to be violent in order to be traumatic, hurtful, and just plain morally wrong.
I don’t need a gotcha. You people have showed how sexist and hateful you are with your comments. Just look at the response I got to my comment that I was by modern definition a rape victim: That apparently means that I “don’t understand consent”! And then only to follow up with a list of loaded questions effectively presuming me to be a rapist.
I only asked if you considered yourself feminists because often, when I point other feminists to such a conversation as an example of it’s hateful sexist nature, they say “oh but they aren’t feminists”.
Adi: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No, really. You’re funny.
The modern definition of rape is sex without consent.
If someone had sex with you without your consent, then you are a rape survivor, and there is nothing ludicrous about it.
If someone has not had sex with you without your consent, then you do not meet the modern definition of a rape survivor.
This is why I say you don’t understand consent.
Well, not every hateful conversation involves feminists. Geez. 😛
Just look at the response I got to my comment that I was by modern definition a rape victim: That apparently means that I “don’t understand consent”!
….no, the response was that you EITHER don’t understand consent or that you actually have been raped repeatedly, in which case that’s truly terrible. If you were indeed raped, you certainly have my sympathy, but the fact that you seem to be arguing that defining rape as nonconsensual sex is somehow bad kinda dampens the sympathy a little, since, you know, trying to erase my experience and that of many others isn’t an okay thing to do.
Read more closely; you have received expressions of sympathy. You’ve also been asked some relevant questions about your understanding of the concept of consent. And your assertion that living in fear of false rape accusations is part of the “…normal male experience…” has been challenged.
it’s not ‘hateful’ to point out that you don’t understand consent, it’s just an indication that your responses don’t show a good grasp of what consent is. seriously, why do you guys always jump to the conclusion that you’re being targeted, rather than something more common place like that you just haven’t thought things all the way through.
nobody is out to get you. you aren’t a martyr.