So you may have seen the story yesterday about the University of Vermont fraternity that was suspended for sending out a charming little survey that allegedly asked, among other things, “If you could rape someone, who would it be?” (FWIW, the frat now says it was the work of an individual frat member, not the chapter.)
Reading about this incident, I’m guessing that you probably didn’t ask yourself: “I wonder how the guys at the False Rape Society will use this news to push their own agenda?” Heck, I didn’t even think to ask myself that question. But while doing the rounds of the MRA blogs I’ve discovered the answer to that question, and here it is: FRS head honcho Pierce Harlan described the survey as “perhaps a poke at feminism’s fascination with rape,” then denounced it as “indefensible,” then ranted about the evils of false rape accusations. I guess that isn’t really shocking at all.
First, Harlan offered this take on the “who would you rape” question:
I assume the survey was sick humor, a crude satire of the fratboy culture, and perhaps a poke at feminism’s fascination with rape.
Yes, because any time men make rape jokes it’s probably because, you know, feminism, and its wacky obsession with rape.
Then Harlan went on to suggest that rape was no laughing matter – especially when it comes to rape that doesn’t happen:
Whatever it was intended to be, ultimately it is indefensible, because trivializing the word “rape” is no laughing matter, whether it’s a joke about the rape of male prisoners, or the fantasy “rape” of women, or a false rape claim intended to get a guy in, or a woman out of, trouble.
Well, that was quick. Let’s not talk about the trivialization of real rape. Let’s talk about the epidemic of “false rape accusations” that Harlan has convinced himself is the real problem here.
With nary a pause, Harlan moved on to complain about hypothetical feminists making a big deal out of this survey instead of joining him on his crusade:
There most certainly will be an outcry in the feminist blogosphere over this isolated incident
This what incident?
and it will be cited as proof positive to support the myth that ours is a “rape culture.”
Yeah, I wonder why casual jokes about rape would possibly be considered as part of “rape culture.”
A “rape culture,” of course, not only would tolerate but would condone such a puerile survey. Our society does neither. The only “rape” jokes our society condones concerns prison rape — and that’s because society actually encourages prison rape as a sort of “added bonus” punishment for any hapless male who lands in prison. It is ironic that actual prison rape does not garner the outrage that this this sick fratboy humor is generating. Go figure.
This from a guy who doesn’t seem to have ever even bothered to mention the leading anti-prison rape organization, Just Detention, on his web site. (See here for more on the issue on Man Boobz.) Though he does offer three links on his main page to information about the statute of limitation for rape charges, in case anyone reading is worried about getting caught being falsely accused for something they did didn’t do a long time ago.
Meanwhile,rape jokes — and not just prison rape jokes — are everywhere. Harlan, I assume you are at least somewhat familiar with a little site called Reddit, where people not only laugh at rape jokes – they laugh at actual rape!
Meanwhile, in the comments on Harlan’s article, some False Rape Society readers don’t even bother to pretend that the “rape survey” bothers them. According to the commenter called “bad,”
We should be celebrating young men who stand up against misandry. We should be celebrating the frat that said “no means yes” and we should be celebrating the frat that created this survey, if it’s a real story.
An anonymous commenter takes it a step further:
I do not condemn this action,
in fact, I wish I’d thought of it.
It is a brilliant and very appropriate response to the way young men are being treated by college campuses.
When the answer to “who would you like to treat like a rapist” is “all college men”, I think that asking them who they’d like to rape is more than fair.
But it is Harlan’s response to these comments that is the most revealing:
By the way, I read the reaction of Bad and others as a natural backlash … against the unconscionable PC culture of misandry on campus. I happen to disagree with those who suggest this was acceptable, but their remarks should not be construed as evidence that we live in a “rape culture.” Like Steve, I read their comments more as an affirmation that we live in a false rape culture–a culture that more and more men are finding intolerable.
I, on the other hand, doubt that these young men have the first clue about misandry, feminism, or how colleges run roughshod over the rights of young men. I am always amazed when we hear from falsely accused people who “had not idea this goes on.” My guess is they were just being being “funny.” I would, frankly, love to find out I am wrong, and that not only would they never call for a woman to be actually raped, but that this was a protest against the pendulum swinging too far. In that case, I am still not sure I could find it acceptable but it would initiate an entirely different dialogue.
So the survey is “indefensible,” yet a totally understandable reaction to, and protest against, an “unconscionable PC culture of misandry.”
Got it.
EDITED TO ADD: Harlan has written a response, of sorts, to this post. It is a bit — what’s the word I’m looking for here? — zany.
Ullere: ‘They stated, “Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing. Specifically, FBI officials report that out of roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases since 1989, about 2,000 tests have been inconclusive, about 2,000 tests have excluded the primary suspect, and about 6,000 have “matched” or included the primary suspect.”
The authors continued, “these percentages have remained constant for 7 years, and the National Institute of Justice’s informal survey of private laboratories reveals a strikingly similar 26 percent exclusion rate.”
To which you said, “If the foregoing results can be extrapolated, then the rate of false reports is roughly between 20 (if DNA excludes an accused)
Which has two problems. “if they can be extrapolated”, which isn’t clear, and that the exclusions mean the accusation was false, as opposed to the wrong person being convicted for an actual rape.
@Quackers
And especially since so many of us have faced skepticism from family members and authority figures. Rape culture in action! People like Ullere do their best to make it worse, of course.
@Holly Pervocracy if you prefer I can continue to word it as at least 20% of the men accused of rape have been falsely accused, I don’t think I’ve said that a minimum of 20% of accusers do so maliciously.
@Quackers those people that show hatred towards women sure, doubt them. Don’t paint people who doubt statistics as only doing so out of some dark sinister personal failing when there are many reasons to doubt. I don’t consider you to have ulterior motive for believing in the rape epidemic, I’m sure personal experience and evidence you have seen has convinced you. Now we can’t all be right, but thats no reason to tarnish everyone you meet who doesn’t agree with you.
‘then change the subject to false accusations. ‘ I didn’t bring up the subject.
‘Where is truth and justice in that?’ No where, I haven’t said rapists getting away with it is just and neither does any western institution.
‘lack of DNA doesn’t necessarily mean a rape never happened,’ Yes indeed, but those released in this study were released thanks to dna evidence. I doubt if there were other circumstances such as a video or a confession they were still released.
‘“Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing.’
this doesn’t mean the rapes didn’t take place, only that those convicted were released on DNA evidence. Where some of them rapists? Who knows, the FBI says no.
‘First, the category of ‘false accusations’ does not distinguish between accusers who lie and those who are honestly mistaken’
An honest mistake doesn’t remove the false accusation, you can be correct is saying you were raped but still falsely accuse someone of the rape.
‘MRAs on the other hand, push the belief that all false rape accusations are done by evil women for revenge.’
Right then, if you say so. Must be those ulterior etc. I would say some are, certainly the high profile cases tend to be about revenge, but then being high profile makes me assume it’s less common.
@Xanthe no I don’t really expect victims of rape to divulge in random people. Do you really believe that if someone hasn’t ever been told about a rape by their friends and family it’s due to a personal failing?
‘‘I can understand why they wouldn’t tell you about it, though.’
‘I have so say that implies no one is willing to trust you enough to share that sort of detail.
If that’s the case, I can see why.’’
You told your brother, your future partners and those who are far enough removed from you to feel comfortable. Those of your friends and family you didn’t tell, your parents, it isn’t due to a personal failing as the comments here suggest.
I don’t know what to say about your experience, I can’t imagine the depths of your suffering and you have my sympathy. I know nothing I can say can help, but thank you for sharing a very personal and horrible experience.
Quackers, thanks very much. I perhaps should have said, it wasn’t as awful as it could have been at the time (I know others who went through comparably horrific ordeals), partly because of being drunk, but it was what I went through afterwards – I’m fairly sure that I had PTSD for most of the following year and because of my shame I felt that I had to suffer in silence through it.
Ullere, you’ve attributed a quote to me that isn’t anything I said.
Someone got pwnd: http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/12/assholez-who-despise-falsely-accused.html
@Sniper ‘People like Ullere do their best to make it worse, of course.’
No thats unacceptable, questioning studies accuracy and disagreeing over rates of false rape accusation is nothing like promoting doubt and scepticism of rape claims. I abhor what you have accused me of and you should be ashamed. Sorry I was going to stay active until I was accused of being a rape sympthasizer but that’ll do it for now. It;s been an interesting thread, thanks for your time.
@ xanthe, those quotes are comment others have made about the reasons I personally haven’t been told about my friends and families experiences of rape.
Don’t let the door hit you. I’m sure you’ll find other places to downplay the prevalence and significance of rape.
Ashamed. I’m just going to bed Sniper, not quiting the blog. But I tend only to comment on threads that interest me. Not the petty stuff like mra meme’s and confessions of trolls loneliness. So you will have plenty of other chances to accuse me of downplaying the prevalence and significance of rape for merely disagreeing. Everything Quackers says about MRA’s can be applied to your last two posts, you should be ashamed.
There’s nothing innocuous about what you’re doing, Ullere, and I think you know that.
Ullere: It’s not that any specific person hasn’t told you which is telling, it’s that no one has told you. Any single person might have some personal reason to refuse to tell you, and that’s not a comment on you, but more likely to be a reflection of their reactions to being raped.
But that no one has shared anything with you… that’s different. I don’t think my sister would be likely to tell me she’d been raped. I also think a few of my exes might not. But my former housemate, I think she’d tell me if she were raped (again). The same for the exes of mine who have let me know they’ve been raped.
You, however, have had no one tell you they’ve been raped. As I said, the people I know (which is to say the people I work with, the people I was in the Army with, the people I took dance classes with) with whom I am more than passably familar, all admit to knowing people who have been raped. Some of them admit to having been raped. That’s not people in, “safe” spaces. That’s machinists, and cooks, and soldiers, and retail sales people, and photographers, and journalists.
It’s people in broad sections of the public.
So you seem to be a statistical anomaly to me. Which would make me wonder why, if I’d not seen the way you react to issues related to rape.
xanthe: “Ullere, you’ve attributed a quote to me that isn’t anything I said.”
Sucks, doesn’t it.
Not ashamed, sickened. You’re a waste of space, Ullere.
@Ullere
I gave you many examples why I find the people who downplay rape and exaggerate FRAs suspicious. Know that the most of the ones I, and I suspect many of the people here as well, have come across, fit that criteria. You can’t fault me for being suspicious. Especially since I never named you as having ulterior motives. I had NWO in mind more to be honest.
Things are Bad, post a picture, that will totally show us how right you are!(not really)
“Questioning studies accuracy and disagreeing over rates of false rape accusation is nothing like promoting doubt and scepticism of rape claims.”
Yes, that’s actually exactly what is does.
Oh I found the perfect way to word this!
You have every right to doubt rape statistics, but I have every right to doubt you for doubting them.
Dave Futrelle can suck my testiclez.
Just caught up with the thread, and I must comment on NWOslave’s stance in the “zie” controversy.
Really, NWOslave, you’re the language police now? You, the person who thought “zero sum game” meant “escalation”, and, when it was pointed out that you were wrong, refused to concede? You’re the guy who’s going to tell us what words mean?
Personally, I prefer “they” as a third person singular, and use it that way, but, really, that’s a silly thing for anybody to get hung up on. The fact is that English is lacking in a gender-neutral third-person pronoun. It’s an important concept, but we lack an elegant and organic way to explain it. That’s a serious linguistic problem, and I can hardly fault people for trying to come up with solutions.
@lj4a, thanks for showing your concern, troll. I may have strongly disagreed with you but I didn’t mangle my citations.
Ullere: You have done more than, “disagree” about studies’ accuracy. You have extrapolated some things which ascribe malice (either real, or structural) to accusations of rape which end up in a false conviction. You have, indirectly, accused people of attacking you when, for example, I (whom you’ve specifically called out) didn’t.
I said that, based on your behavior, I can see why a specific sort of trust might be withheld from you. That’s not a personal attack. If I’d said, “you’re obvious hatred of women is the reason they don’t trust you”. that would have been a personal attack (and no, I don’t think that. I have no reason to make any conclusion about your opinion of women).
But you’ve made it plain that you think anyone who thinks rape is prevalent, is; at best, deluded. You’ve implied that those who disagree with you are willfully refusing to admit the truth; that they ought to know that rape is massively over-estimated; because you said so, and that false accusations of rape are much more common than there is any reason to believe.
And you aren’t, by your own admission, unwilling to jump into a conversation on the subject. I think that shows to the women who associate with you.
@Crumbelievable
and this is exactly why this topic is so frustrating and upsetting. Because on one hand, you want to get the most accurate answers possible, on the other doubting and downplaying gets rape victims disbelieved or brushed off even more. Both are connected.
It’s even more frustrating when a study from a reputable source and not an organization with a bias is dismissed as bogus.
xanthe: I never claimed YOU had falsely attributed comments to me.
Irony
Well, I was going to tell you that I loved you in Star Wars and thought you were robbed when they gave the role of Two-Face to Tommy Lee Jones, but if you’re just going to be rude…