Today, a lesson in advanced Facebook dating mathematics, courtesy of our friend Roissy/Heartiste.
First: fellas, remember that online dating is stacked against us, due to the ability of the ladies to post pictures of themselves looking cute on Facebook – one of the gravest injustices of the modern world. As Heartiste explains, in a post with the bracing title You’ll Need Hard Negs For Facebook Game:
So you’ve got millions of women posting flattering pics of themselves and personal details that are uniformly positive on their FB walls, and you’ve got a bunch of cloying betas feeding the egos of these women even further with painstakingly crafted supportive comments, and you expect to make any headway with tepid game? That is a bitch shield too strong to breach.
But if you must engage the ladies on this unfavorable terrain, remember to adjust your calculations accordingly. As Heartiste explains this new math:
The combination of self-selected profiles and nonstop beta adulation will boost a 5′s self-conception to a 7. Since 5s already have a self-conception of 6 thanks to the phenomenon of female upward dating momentum and the alpha cock carousel, you now have a double-strength bitch shield to bust instead of a single strength.
I’ve prepared a simple chart to illustrate this point:
But wait! There’s more:
Remember, if a 5 believes she’s a 7 (“But I *feel* like a 7!”) she is also going to believe that male 7s are not high enough status for her. Women are not truly happy unless they are dating men 0.5 to 2 sexual market value points higher than themselves.
Five thinks it’s seven. But seven is five. SEVEN IS FIVE!
The reality, of course, is that the male 7 is two full points higher than the female 5. But the Facebook wall has meddled with the primal forces of nature. An unbridgeable chasm brought about by the advance of technology has severed the organically emergent hierarchy of the dating market where there is no escape from soul withering judgments made in mere seconds.
So, as always, the best bet for the modern man is to find some lady in the real world who actually thinks she’s the number she is. Then, simply neg her until she hates herself. That’s how the math is supposed to work.
They believe that 18 years old are attracted to guys in their forties and they believe that any sign of interest from a woman means that she’s flirting. For example a 46 years old man was convinced that a 16 years old teenager was flirting with because she asked him a question about his Kindle :
http://www.phoenixism.net/?p=8025
They believe that if they are nice to woman, she must have sex with them. I remember that in a shyness forum a Nice Guy(tm) said that a friend did something for a woman and he didn’t get sex in return. He called it an act of “treachery” and a regular shy posters asked why he was seeing that as “treachery” and I don’t remember what he answered.
Useful Life Tip #347: If your dating strategy involves trying to make people feel bad so they’ll think they can’t do any better than you, you are failing at life. Not just dating. Life.
Hey, remember when Brandon first showed up here and kept insulting random women, telling them they were ugly and he wouldn’t fuck them? Even though he obviously had no idea what anyone here looks like? Naturally, we all fell desperately in love with him, which is why he’s greeted with such warmth whenever he shows up here.
I was actually there when twoguys first heard of negging to attract the attention of women. Those poor, impressionable Microsoft interns thought their intern camp leader (what is the correct term?) was giving them good advice. The two of them started spouting misogynistic crap despite the protestations of my friend and I. Going outside to smoke on a balcony in the middle of winter was more fun, and since I don’t smoke I was just hanging out and freezing my ass off.
I used to really like to go to clubs with friends and dance like a moron – dancing like a moron is definitely one of my things – but the sheer volume of pushy, unsolicited pickup attempts made me not want to go anymore. I suspect the fact that I’m 22 now would mean I would be faced with less of it than when I was 18, so maybe I’ll try again sometime. It’s like how, once I got out of my highschool years, the number of creepy 40-60 year olds who would hit on me in scary ways dropped to almost nil. With every passing year, I become more over-the-hill as far as people who don’t think of women and girls as human are concerned (yay!)
The only time I was absolutely positive I was dealing with a PUA was on a dating site once. He started with a fairly jokey thing about how I looked like a vegetarian, and he hoped I wasn’t because he doesn’t date vegetarians. I raised an eyebrow, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt (just kinda sucks at jokes?) and responded that I wasn’t a vegetarian. He came back at me with a big long tirade about “those girls” who actually were vegetarians and the various ways their dietary choices were a direct affront to him. Nice. Then he said that he’d seen on my profile that I was looking to become a counsellor, and that I was probably going to want to do that to him all the time, ugh. He already had a mom, he didn’t need a second one!
At that point I sent him a note about how if he was trying to neg me that was a particularly stupid strategy, and if he wasn’t than he needed to work on his lady-attracting skills. He responded that he’s a no-nonsense sort of guy, and I would be lucky to have the chance to get coffee with him.
I did not agree.
The whole PUA idea that beautiful women have never been treated badly, so they’ll be thrilled and intrigued when an asshole in a douchey hat insults them, is such bullshit. Men insult hot women all the time. Especially men who suck.
A cartoonist I know once wrote about being seated next to a Playboy model at a convention (yeah, welcome to the comics industry). At first she was intimidated by the model’s beauty, but this quickly gave way to shock at the shitty way men talked to her. They’d say stuff to her face like, “You’re not so hot in person” or, “Wow, you look way better in your photos.” And these were “fans” who wanted autographs from her.
Strangely, the Playboy model did not react to any of these comments by jumping up and begging the guys for a date.
@Viscaria
“I used to really like to go to clubs with friends and dance like a moron – dancing like a moron is definitely one of my things – but the sheer volume of pushy, unsolicited pickup attempts made me not want to go anymore. I suspect the fact that I’m 22 now would mean I would be faced with less of it than when I was 18, so maybe I’ll try again sometime. It’s like how, once I got out of my highschool years, the number of creepy 40-60 year olds who would hit on me in scary ways dropped to almost nil. With every passing year, I become more over-the-hill as far as people who don’t think of women and girls as human are concerned (yay!)”
This is why I tend to go to gay clubs, because there you can dance like a moron (I do that too) without anybody trying to pick you up. Although sometimes there are straight guys that go to gay clubs just to pick up girls (Argh, the underlying entitlement that comes with that pisses me off SO much), but at least its not as common.
And yeah, I absolutely notice the thing about less creepy men hitting on you when you get older. When I was 16 I remember soo many creepy old men hitting on me, but now that I’m 24, I get a lot less of it. This also could be because when I was 16 I was a lot less confident, and this was probably evident by the way I walked and presented myself. After all, creeps tend to target women that seem vulnerable.
Most communication is goal oriented, thus manipulative on some level. You are either trying to persuade someone or command them to do something.
Ape communication is goal-oriented. Even gorillas and chimps with advanced signing vocabularies seldom, if ever, use language for anything other than getting something they want. This is a pretty big topic in primatology: humans seem to be the only primates who use language for abstract purposes like social bonding, sharing ideas, or entertainment.
Back when I was in college and actually studying this stuff, there was some excitement because a group of primatologists had observed their troop of signing bonobos gossiping. The bonobos would come up to the humans and tell them what the other bonobos had been up to. This behavior had never been observed in nonhumans before! There was some concern that it was still goal-oriented, because maybe the bonobos were tattling on each other to get treats or praise from the humans; it would only count as advanced communication if the bonobos were sharing information with no expectation of a reward. I don’t know how the study ultimately shook out.
As we all know, I am the worlds foremost expert on Internet Mumbling About Numbers and Sexytime Stuff, by my own declaration of success in all fields and and collection of Pixies mp3s. As we see here – the Devil is Six, and God is Seven. Just as women are hypergamous. Thus, I declare – The formerly Average Frustrated Chimp Monkey gone to PUA heaven. The feminists will shake with rage as they face this important truth. But the monkey pays them no heed as he games his way through paradise.
@No More Mr. Nice Guy
The Kindle on the bus story……so gross. I don’t know what’s worse — the assumption that this “barrio” girl probably had never been to a library, or the fact that he was sexually aroused when she tapped on the Kindle, because of its proximity to his lap.
Dude, I get asked questions about my Kindle all the time, by men and women. They are increasingly common but they are still a piece of technology that some people do not have access to, and others want to know if they are worth the investment. Also, some people are just nosy. Not everything is a Penthouse Forum letter, for fuck’s sake.
I’m getting my kindle for Christmas, and now I have to worry about somehow running into this dude on the bus… Ewwwwwwww
Kyrie:
I think the theory says you want to say yes — or, rather, you have no desires whatsoever — but you have to make sure he’s worthy. So you put up all these obstacles, not because you’re not interested (which is simply not a categorization that applies to women) but because you’re making sure he’s willing to put in enough effort to earn you.
Shaenon:
Outside a PUA context that would seem to exhibit what I thought was a particularly New York attitude of “I’m not impressed by you” which is, obviously, stronger the more impressive the person is.
Then again, I think a lot of Nice-Guy™-ism stems from boys attempting to counteract the “power” girls have to give them boners. A similar dynamic, in part, underlies the phenomenon of the closeted homophobe. There’s a dash of the MRAL-style inability to recognize that this is their reaction, not anything anyone is actually doing.
“. At first she was intimidated by the model’s beauty, but this quickly gave way to shock at the shitty way men talked to her. They’d say stuff to her face like, “You’re not so hot in person” or, “Wow, you look way better in your photos.” And these were “fans” who wanted autographs from her.
Strangely, the Playboy model did not react to any of these comments by jumping up and begging the guys for a date.”
OH, WELL, SEE THAT’S THE PROBLEM SHAENON! They were asking for her autograph, and that means they are supplicating, even while they’re treating her like shit. They should have approached with a picture of themselves, or, no, wait, scratch that just sort of “wandered” into her, and THEN treated her like shit! Then they’d have been IN!
Or maybe, if they HAD to open the set by approaching with the others, snatched back the picture, like the pebble, and told her they’d changed their mind, and wanted to know who the photoshopper was who did the awesome work so they could get THEIR autograph instead. Now
I need to be writing these things down and selling them on the INTERNET!
Due to me being off the internets for a while today, some comments languished in moderation for a long time. So I’m going to repost them because otherwise no one would see them. Here’s one:
And another:
I’m still surprised at how many men think Playboy models or porn stars look exactly like in their magazines/videos 24/7. BDSM porn actress Cherry Torn mentionned once on her blog that ever since the advent of HD porn, she can be stuck in makeup for 3-5 hours (we’re talking hiding that mole on her ass and stuff). No matter how hot a woman is, it’s very unlikely she has the full power of 5 hours of professional makeup artistry on her body when you’re having sex with her. Porn is a fantasy. It’s screwed up how so many men use that as their *baseline* for what sex should be like.
Most communication is goal oriented, thus manipulative on some level. You are either trying to persuade someone or command them to do something.
Manipulation and deception is a part of life, it is not something to be ashamed of, it’s an art to do it in a skilled way. I hope I’ll master it some day, at the moment my attempts are still nothing but amateurish. To abuse reason for the sake of gain, to be able to quickly adapt different mindsets, to be so flexible to defend positions you don’t believe – Joseph Fouché is my great example, I admire him.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
See, Beethoven, Newton and Tesla actually created/discovered something of incredible VALUE and IMPORTANCE to this world. MGTOWS are bitter losers who whine and bitch on the internet about how much ladies suck. You are the very definition of the word pathetic. And sour grapes.
But please. Do actually go your own way. Good luck convincing all men to stop having relations with women though. Something tells me you’re going to have a hard time with that.
Another one:
How on earth is it homophobic to make fun of someone calling himself “Heartiste?” “Heartiste” isn’t a “gay” thing to call yourself. It’s just ridiculous, whatever your gender or sexual orientation.
Another one:
also Roissy/Heartiste is a psychopath. So are many of his followers. Its evident in their writings. Lian Li is an aspiring psychopath too it seems. Manipulating people for your own gain continuously is a symptom of psychopathy.
*sighs* so many douchebags in the world. It’s a shame. And then the manosphere has the nerve to blame women for being on guard or afraid of men. With creeps like them running around, can you blame them? too bad they ruin it for the rest of the men who aren’t assholes.
Oh and someone pointed out to Roissy that he was an evolutionary failure because he’s never had kids. He got all pissy, it was hilarious.
Oh yuck, I just read that alpharivelino post and my skin is just *crawling*. A giant ego wrapped up in slime and pretentious language thinks his ‘male magnetism’ is overwhelming someone because they talked to him? WTF world do PUAs live in?
Oh yeah, and Roissy is a tryhard.
Buttman: I would make fun of any person, gay or straight, man or woman, femme or butch, who felt the need to call zirself “Heartiste.”
Dude, you can’t even articulate ideas you do believe. Set reasonable goals. Less disappointment. More satisfaction.
Another one!
@Flora: I’m glad David copied your comment over here–I am in total agreement with your point about the whole “beautiful women are arrogant” foundation to the theory. The women I’ve known that I would consider beautiful/attractive/etc. including those who meet some specific cultural requirements for “beauty” are often not at all self-confident — for many reasons (including in one memorable case–Oh, I was SOOOOOOOOOOO in love with her–the basic fact that it took her years to ‘grow into’ her bone structure and face and ‘beauty’–she said she’d been seen as a rather ugly child, etc. and could never believe in her beauty, or, sadly, trust anybody who said they thought she was beautiful). So this whole hoo-hah over beautiful women’s arrogance needing to be popped which is often so much projection and vaporware is just something that I cannot accept–and as a fat and queer woman, a lot of the women I’ve known who did project what I might consider arrogance did so because of feeling horribly insecure, so….yeah. It’s complicated (but of course mra dudes cannot accept any sort of complication or contradiction, that’s why they cling to a simple number of Greek letter system. )