What’s the difference between a lad mag and a rapist? Aside from one being a magazine and the other a person, albeit an reprehensible one, apparently not very much.
In a study soon to be published in the British Journal of Psychology, researchers at Middlesex University and the University of Surrey showed people quotes about women from British lad mags (FHM, Loaded, Nuts and Zoo) and from convicted rapists. Most survey respondents – men and women both – could not tell the difference between the quotes from the magazines and the quotes from the rapists. And most of the male respondents identified more with the quotes from the rapists than from the lad mags.
Here are some of the quotes the survey respondents were asked to react to. (You can find more at Jezebel.) Can you tell which of these are from rapists or lad mags?
Mascara running down the cheeks means they’ve just been crying, and it was probably your fault . . . but you can cheer up the miserable beauty with a bit of the old in and out.
You’ll find most girls will be reluctant about going to bed with somebody or crawling in the back seat of a car . . . But you can usually seduce them, and they’ll do it willingly.
Some girls walk around in short-shorts . . . showing their body off . . . It just starts a man thinking that if he gets something like that, what can he do with it?
I think girls are like plasticine, if you warm them up you can do anything you want with them.
In case you’re wondering, the correct answers are: Lad mag, Rapist, Rapist, Lad Mag.
Creepy, eh?
Lead researcher Miranda Horvath of Middlesex University explains why she feels this is so troubling:
Rapists try to justify their actions, suggesting that women lead men on, or want sex even when they say no, and there is clearly something wrong when people feel the sort of language used in a lads’ mag could have come from a convicted rapist.
I would say so.
And so, you might wonder, how did the regulars on the Men’s Rights subreddit react this this research? Take a look.
The comment with the most upvotes offered some nice juicy denial:
The comment with the second-highest number of upvotes completely missed the point:
And then there was this hot mess:
In case anyone is wondering, that quote from French is actually a quote from a character in one of her novels. And it’s pretty easy to distinguish it from things posted on Jezebel, because none of the writers on Jezebel ever say anything even remotely like that.
The Men’s Rights subreddit, responding to evidence of rape culture by going “la la la I can’t hear you” since March 2008.
lj4adotcomedan – What would convince you that we lived in a rape culture? What do you think feminists mean when they say rape culture? If they don’t mean what you think they must mean, aren’t you just holding them to an impossible standard? If deeply entrenched societal attitudes about rape than tend to excuse rapists, be they male or female, and blame victims aren’t “rape culture” – What is? What would be. Think about this. Because it’s not just “not agreeing” that’s trollish. That’s not the point. it’s dismissing and saying “I haven’t seen it!” – When you won’t even listen to feminists about what “it” is.
“A vast majority of officers I have spoken to about this issue have said the officer handled it wrong”
As if they’d tell you upfront their true feelings on the situation…
The sort of thing that happened to your friend is unfortunately not an isolated incident but part of a trend. That such attitudes can be found at all among the group of people in our society entrusted with preserving public order and stopping crime should illustrate how deeply ingrained rape-promoting attitudes are.
I don’t have time to go edit your blog for you, and if I did I would have to charge you for that service, as I do not perform editing work for free for strangers on the internet. That is especially the case when the strangers in question clearly support some of the ideas that underly rape culture, which you do, as your comments here illustrate. Frankly I don’t think you understand what’s meant by “rape culture”, but it’s very clear that you agree with some of the attitudes that keep in afloat. I am thus not feeling inclined to do you any favors.
zhinxy: In short, I believe (and please correct me if I am wrong) is that rape culture means we live in a society that at the very least enables rapists and views rape as no big deal and at the very worst one that promotes and encourages the raping of people. Am I close?
I agree, if I am dead wrong on the definition then yes, I would be holding people to an impossible standard.
I will answer the rest if you confirm I am right on the definition.
crumbalievable: I have no reason to distrust them.
cassandra: Actually, what that tells me is that you are not able to back up your false claims against me. You could at least point out one to try and prove your point.
You really think that ? I think it made you worst.
No, what it actually tells you is that you are trying my patience by demanding that other people assist you in your quest to make a political point. The fact that you are defaulting to “false claims” language doesn’t exactly incline me to believe the rest of your story, either.
Lovely lovely on-topic, taken from the original link:
“Far from being harmless or ironic fun, lads’ mags could be legitimising hostile sexist attitudes, according to new research.”
“Men identified more with the comments made by rapists more than the quotes made in lads’ mags, but men identified more with quotes said to have been drawn from lads’ mags more than those said to have been comments by convicted rapists.”
“Dr Miranda Horvath and Dr Peter Hegarty argue that the findings are consistent with the possibility that lads’ mags normalise hostile sexism, by making it seem more acceptable when its source is a popular magazine.”
“These magazines support the legitimisation of sexist attitudes and behaviours and need to be more responsible about their portrayal of women, both in words and images. They give the appearance that sexism is acceptable and normal – when really it should be rejected and challenged. Rapists try to justify their actions, suggesting that women lead men on, or want sex even when they say no, and there is clearly something wrong when people feel the sort of language used in a lads’ mag could have come from a convicted rapist.”
If anyone has any doubts about the intent or conclusion of the study… this is it. Nothing about men specifically, but more about how the magazines are making it “ok to be sexist.”
Now to slyly insert myself into the current derail. It shall be seamless. SEAMLESS!
Neither do you apparently.
This is true. It is also true in all types of criminal cases-from the cases of murder to the cases of someone trespassing on a lawn. What is the point? That mistakes happen in the prosecution of criminal cases? Yes they do. That is why we have appellate courts and the adoption in many jurisdictions of Rule 33 so there is a mechanism of review of conviction.
Actually the person who makes the allegation of illegal activity is the prosecutor. Not a plaintiff as that is civil. The Defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a trial-which can be either a jury or bench trial. As such even if the victim failed to appear, the State (whom the prosecutor represents) can still press on with the case.
But that is strictly the court of law-the court of public opinion is a very different matter.
NoMoreMrNiceGuy: “You really think that ? I think it made you worst.”
Did you know me before?
Ya know you live in a false rape society when shit like this happens on a daily basis.
http://www.denverpost.com/watercooler/ci_19509076
I’d thought I’d heard every excuse in the books for false accusations but this is a new one. Here’s an exerpt…
“She split her own lip with a pin, scraped her knuckles with sandpaper and had her friend punch her in the face. Investigators say she even ripped open her blouse, then wet her pants to give the appearance she had been knocked unconscious.
But it was all part of what authorities said Friday was an elaborate hoax by the woman to convince her husband she was raped so they could move to a safer neighborhood.”
Luckily there was no actual man indentified as the bad man in this particular instance. Had there been she might of rallied some stupid white knights to beat the shit out of, or kill an innocent men.
So here we have a woman, (psychologist of course, they know stuff), colluding with her girlfriends to get hubby to buy a bigger house. I guess when nagging, (a happy name for female verbal DV), sexual coercion, (witholding sex), doesn’t work, go for the rape victim card.
This kinda stuff is like the daily news anymore. Actually it’s not, “like the daily news.” It is the daily news. The top excuses for trying to incarcerate a man are revenge and caught cheating. Now we have to add, “Woman wanted a luxury home,” to the list of excuses.
@lj4adotcomdan:
“A vast majority of officers I have spoken to about this issue have said the officer handled it wrong. If most officers believe it was handled wrong then I have a hard time accepting it as evidence of a rape CULTURE since most would not have handled it that way. If it was part of the culture, most would handle it that way.”
Lemme give you an example here. You must have heard of the child sex-abuse scandals that have been going on in the Catholic church. Now, ultimately, there were not a huge section of priests that had actually abused kids. And, if you asked other priests, of course they would say that that behavior is wrong and un-catholic and so-on.
But here’s the rub; the reason the priests got away with it for so long was because the church was actively covering up their acts. The church was more concerned for their public image and the priests themselves than for the children that had been abused. I’m pretty sure that this, if anything, is what rape culture means. No one really condones raping women (out in the world, anyway), but when push comes to shove, society always seems to be behind the rapists. Take the story that someone brought up earlier. Here’s a quote:
“The case has rocked this East Texas community to its core and left many residents in the working-class neighborhood where the attack took place with unanswered questions. Among them is, if the allegations are proved, how could their young men have been drawn into such an act?
“It’s just destroyed our community,” said Sheila Harrison, 48, a hospital worker who says she knows several of the defendants. “These boys have to live with this the rest of their lives.””
Right. So, the reaction was not “how could we let this happen to that poor girl,” but “how could we let these boys be roped into this gang-bang rape thing.” It’s the boys that have to live with it, not the girl they raped. Getting the picture?
@NWO:
Hooray, you have found an actual instance where a woman has faked a rape. Here is a cookie. (‘.)
Now, get back to us when you can back up your claim that this is even close to “daily” news. At all. In the slightest.
cassandra: “No, what it actually tells you is that you are trying my patience by demanding that other people assist you in your quest to make a political point. The fact that you are defaulting to “false claims” language doesn’t exactly incline me to believe the rest of your story, either.”
Well, if I am coming off a a woman hater who stands opposed to feminism (what I see as an MRA) then I would really like to know as I do not hate women nor do I stand opposed to feminism.
But yes, I believe you are falsely claiming that I come off as an MRA on my falsely accused blog (or here for that matter). Would an MRA really want to fix any perceived misogyny? Would an MRA be open to hearing arguments from others on why those others believe we do live in a rape culture/society?
Yes, based on my observations, I currently deny that we live in a rape culture/society. I think there are people within our society who are rape apologists and/or who need to be educated on certain things when it comes to the issues surrounding rape.
I am not so closed minded that I would reject good arguments made. And as zhinxy pointed out, if I have an incorrect definition of what a rape culture/society is then I would be open to finding out what the actual definition is and adjusting my opinion of it accordingly.
Hell, I most recently volunteered my time for a candidate for Governor of Louisiana who is the policy director for P.A.V.E. http://pavingtheway.net/wordpress/ and I admire her for the work she has done. I doubt someone who really was an MRA would volunteer for her campaign. But hey, to each their own.
Kirbywarp: If one wanted to say that there is a rape culture within the Catholic Church, I would 100% agree with that (based on my current assumption on the definition of what having a rape culture means). If someone wanted to say that there was a rape culture at Penn State, then they would likely be correct about that as well (Sandusky is still innocent until proven guilty but the hiding of the claims
People are giving you plenty of illustrations of what we mean by rape culture and why we think we live in one, you’re just choosing to brush them off.
Wow, NWOSlave, she appears to be a terrible person. I am glad that she and her accomplices have been arrested and will be tried for the crimes they are accused of.
@kirbywarp
Hooray, you had to go back to March to find an actual rape. My example is much more current. Didn’t the gang already beat that same horse to death back in March? It’s dead already, bravo!
You’re reply is a perfect example of excusing womens poor behavior, an endemic problem perpetuated by people like you. That’s why we live in a false rape culture.
@NWO:
Hooray, I was bringing up an article that someone else had already brought up. Because I was reading it. And it was relevant. In fact, the article’s date had nothing to do with the point I was making. Yay!
Who’s behavior am I excusing anyway? Didn’t I agree that the woman in the article you brought up actually did commit “false rape” or whatever? Is not accepting that an unusual thing happens all the time condoning that thing now?
Cassandra: “People are giving you plenty of illustrations of what we mean by rape culture and why we think we live in one, you’re just choosing to brush them off.”
Well, there was a link with a rather large page that I will have to read later and the other two links you provided on the yes means yes blog that I will go back to review. But that review will be done later tonight when I have more time.
That I am discussing examples given does not mean I am brushing them off. In fact, that I am discussing them with the people who have presented them means that I am NOT brushing them off.
Actually at this point I’m not sure that you even understand what “culture” means. The Catholic church is a part of our culture, not a totally separate entity, in terms of America. In some countries it’s the majority culture and very influential.
Milkslave thinks that there have been no rapes since March. Hm.
NWOSlave: Even I do not consider what she did to be a false ACCUSATION of rape. She definitely filed a police report and faked being a victim. She definitely deserves to be punished and it looks like she may very well be. But she never accused anyone specifically there is no accusation.
No one else here is a rape advocate like NWO. Remember, he is the one saying 8 year old kids on the beach are “asking for it’ ( to be raped, specifially), and claiming 14 year olds are coming on to him.
So in summary, NWO need not be listened to in matters of justice, since he directly advocates crime.
Is NWOSlave seriously taking the term “rape culture” (which is an academic, legitimate feminist term) and adding “false” to the front of it in an attempt to make it part of his MRA vocabulary?
I find that laughably pathetic.
Not to fret kiddies, feminists have upped the ante. The definition of rape is about to be changed.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/fbi-change-definition-rape-time-1929-article-1.988510
Here’s the best part of the change.
“The new definition, which will more closely match the ones that police departments around the country already use, will remove the word “forcible,” along with several other amendments.”
That’s right kiddies, the word “forcible” is being removed. I may be the bad man but if sex isn’t forced, isn’t it consensual? I mean seriously, if you aren’t forced and consent to sex, but it can still be considered rape. Isn’t all sex rape? I guess you’re right, we do live in a rape culture when all sex can be considered rape on a womans whim or fancy.
And look at all the womens groups in the article that are thrilled with this new definition. Oh next year is most definitely gonna be a zinger!