What’s the difference between a lad mag and a rapist? Aside from one being a magazine and the other a person, albeit an reprehensible one, apparently not very much.
In a study soon to be published in the British Journal of Psychology, researchers at Middlesex University and the University of Surrey showed people quotes about women from British lad mags (FHM, Loaded, Nuts and Zoo) and from convicted rapists. Most survey respondents – men and women both – could not tell the difference between the quotes from the magazines and the quotes from the rapists. And most of the male respondents identified more with the quotes from the rapists than from the lad mags.
Here are some of the quotes the survey respondents were asked to react to. (You can find more at Jezebel.) Can you tell which of these are from rapists or lad mags?
Mascara running down the cheeks means they’ve just been crying, and it was probably your fault . . . but you can cheer up the miserable beauty with a bit of the old in and out.
You’ll find most girls will be reluctant about going to bed with somebody or crawling in the back seat of a car . . . But you can usually seduce them, and they’ll do it willingly.
Some girls walk around in short-shorts . . . showing their body off . . . It just starts a man thinking that if he gets something like that, what can he do with it?
I think girls are like plasticine, if you warm them up you can do anything you want with them.
In case you’re wondering, the correct answers are: Lad mag, Rapist, Rapist, Lad Mag.
Creepy, eh?
Lead researcher Miranda Horvath of Middlesex University explains why she feels this is so troubling:
Rapists try to justify their actions, suggesting that women lead men on, or want sex even when they say no, and there is clearly something wrong when people feel the sort of language used in a lads’ mag could have come from a convicted rapist.
I would say so.
And so, you might wonder, how did the regulars on the Men’s Rights subreddit react this this research? Take a look.
The comment with the most upvotes offered some nice juicy denial:
The comment with the second-highest number of upvotes completely missed the point:
And then there was this hot mess:
In case anyone is wondering, that quote from French is actually a quote from a character in one of her novels. And it’s pretty easy to distinguish it from things posted on Jezebel, because none of the writers on Jezebel ever say anything even remotely like that.
The Men’s Rights subreddit, responding to evidence of rape culture by going “la la la I can’t hear you” since March 2008.
What about attempted murder? I mean, maybe that guy who fired a shot at your head but missed meant to miss, you’re not psychic, maybe he didn’t mean to kill you at all! You can’t punish him for your assumptions! Anyway, no harm done!
Attempted murder is a feminist lie.
Has anyone ever come up with a good name for the “i’d say more, but that would be on the magical, wonderful, humane and reasonable day we could have a REAL DEBATE here, instead of just an ECHO chamber” troll visitors? They’re speshul.
Though, attempted rape is the stupidest charge ever troll is still A plus even without that.
“What about attempted murder? I mean, maybe that guy who fired a shot at your head but missed meant to miss, you’re not psychic, maybe he didn’t mean to kill you at all! You can’t punish him for your assumptions! Anyway, no harm done!”
Srsly. And if it’s only your word against his, wtf. You’re gonna tie up the legal system just cause somebody “tried to kill you?”. The fuck, man. The fuck.
zhinxy: how about “echotrolls?”
Hellkell: “Dan, you’re an idiot for saying you’d rather be falsely accused of murder. ”
I DID NOT say that. I, in fact, said being accused of murder would be worse. I said the exact opposite.
Here are my words: “The potential punishment for a false accusation of murder is worse than that of one for false accusations of rape (as pecunium rightly pointed out) ”
The punishment for a false accusation of murder is worse. How can that be any more clear? How on earth could you have taken my statement in the way that you did?
Because I tend to skim your bullshit. My bad.
>>>Remember that Rape is one of the only crimes in which either the accused or the accuser has be believed.
That’s news to me. I could swear those cops told me it was not worth it to get tied up in procedures because my brother-in-law stole an iPod when we invited him into our home, because we had no proof of purchase for it so it would just be my word against his that it was mine/that I didn’t give it to him.
Hershele:
I don’t have that data. But the punishment if convicted of rape sticks to you for the rest of your life (as it should if you actually rape someone).
It is my personal opinion that if a rape case hits the news it gets disproportionate coverage to almost any other crime hitting the news. Perhaps the exception would be if a cute white girl is missing/dead. (Because, you know, the media seems to not think that missing minority babies are not worthy of coverage… but that is another issue).
I also noticed that you left out where I said “I could very well be wrong on that point though.” Just sayin…
I believe it is.
I agree it is speculative. That is why I said “I could very well be wrong”. But it is my opinion based on what I believe to be true. And my opinion is likely biased because of my personal life experiences.
lj4adotcomdan – What are you trying to prove? Why are you still here doing this? Seriously, this is getting disturbing.
Nobody here thinks that when false rape charges happen, it’s not a bad thing. Why do you keep shifting around and beating your drums? What do you have to prove here?
hellkell: “Because I tend to skim your bullshit. My bad.”
I think a lot of skimming has gone on.
zhinxy: “lj4adotcomdan – What are you trying to prove? Why are you still here doing this? Seriously, this is getting disturbing.”
I think it is rather obvious what I am doing. That is answering posts directed at me and correcting misconceptions that people have about what I have said.
Why is defending myself disturbing? Do you think people should just let false things be said about them? I don’t.
zhinxy:
Now honestly, what is that? Do they give a Nobel prize for attempted chemistry?
dan:
Only, you are saying here, if you are convicted. For false rape accusation to be worse than other false accusations, it has to either typically (not just in high-profile cases) be worse to be accused but not convicted, or conviction has to be more likely, or both.You have convinced me of neither of those things.
I was trying to assume you were attempting to have substance. If you wish to challenge or dispute that assumption…
You know, I think I missed the Witman post:
“My personal favourite is “attempted rape”. Attempting (mens rea) without proving an actual crime took place (actus reus) to do something that may or may not have happened. Really, if he stopped was there actually going to be a rape? If he was stopped then who stopped him and what were his intentions?”
Maybe the person stopped because the intended rape victim found some manner of defense and was able to successfully get away. Perhaps someone intervened on behalf of the victim.
Hershele: When I was falsely accused, I did not think about what happened in most cases of false accusations. I thought about what would happen to me in the worst case.
I don’t expect you to be convinced to feel the way that I feel. These are my personal feelings about the issue that I am sharing. The only way for someone to understand what I went though is for them to go through it themselves, and I wish that on nobody.
“I was trying to assume you were attempting to have substance. If you wish to challenge or dispute that assumption…”
Perhaps I am reading you wrong, but are you saying that someone admitting that they might be wrong is proof they lack substance?
I thought you were going to try and stop defending yourself. Guess not.
Okay, Dan, I’m going to let you in on a little secret.
This here post is about rape and rape culture. People in this comment section want to talk about rape culture and how it increases rape.
When you roll up in this spot bleating about false rape accusations, like 163,457,287,000 other MRAs and MRA-types before you, we get testy. Do you know why? Because you’re derailing. I don’t care how many times you say “Well, I mean, of course false accusations aren’t as bad as rape! But lets talk about me and my experiences with false accusations instead of rape, which is actually what this space is for.”
A discussion on rape or rape culture is actually the worst time to bring up false accusations. Ever.
Stop derailing, and stop making this all about you, okay?
Dan, I’ve read this whole thread, and it’s comments like the one that I quoted above that have everyone jumping on you. You keep saying things that are your opinion as if they should be considered authoritative fact.
You should really examine more than a few things, but I’d suggest starting with your own confirmation bias. Don’t tell us your opinion when there are facts available, look for the facts. I’m sure there are some out there (and no I won’t be doing that work for you).
The fact that you feel your opinion has bearing on factual statements is just as ridiculous as you saying that you had read up on rape culture “for years” but had somehow managed to (I’m guessing here) avoid all the prominent feminist sites that have their own versions of feminism 101 which would have answered your questions. It sounds like you spent years only hearing people who posted in hostile environments and took them as the be-all and end-all of feminist thought.
Take a break and take a breather, and maybe read up on what is meant when people say “check your privilege at the door”.
Dan – “I was trying to assume you were attempting to have substance. If you wish to challenge or dispute that assumption…”
Perhaps I am reading you wrong, but are you saying that someone admitting that they might be wrong is proof they lack substance?
…
This is a big part of the problem, dan, it’s these opinions and then BIG LEADING BROAD SWEEPING QUESTIONS. It’s like I said, in a random discussion of y and why y is annoying –
in my opinion, x is annoying.
“Okay, you keep sayiing that, but this isn’t about you or your opinions, and we aren’t talking about y.
Maybe I’m reading you wrong… But… SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT PEOPLE HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE ANNOYED? I don’t understand. I have a right to defend myself!!
This discussion isn’t about you, x and your annoyance. Will you just shut up, please, you troll?
I’m sorry, but I have a right to respond and to defend myself. Are you saying that I have no right to defend myself???
…..
See what I mean, Dan? And that’s not on any particular topic, much less the topic of rape, so often derailed by the topic of false accusations.
And that’s not even the half of it.
(So are you saying that I don’t even have the half of it? How do you know how much I have? Are you saying that people need to have more than the half of it before they can have opinions? “)
Kate: “Dan, I’ve read this whole thread, and it’s comments like the one that I quoted above that have everyone jumping on you. You keep saying things that are your opinion as if they should be considered authoritative fact.”
I said “It is my personal opinion”. It is clearly in the text you quoted from me. I also said “I could very well be wrong on that point though.” The idea that those statements could be taken as me saying people should consider them as authoritative fact is absurd.
“The fact that you feel your opinion has bearing on factual statements is just as ridiculous as you saying that you had read up on rape culture “for years” but had somehow managed to (I’m guessing here) avoid all the prominent feminist sites that have their own versions of feminism 101 which would have answered your questions. ”
No site I had ever read on the issue had made the argument that I read on this thread. That argument made was new to me and it was enabled my mind to tie it all together.
“Take a break and take a breather, ”.”
I took a small break to cool off.
Shora: “When you roll up in this spot bleating about false rape accusations, like 163,457,287,000 other MRAs and MRA-types before you, we get testy. Do you know why? Because you’re derailing.”
My first post in this thread had nothing to do with false accusations of rape. I “rolled up in this thread” questioning the methodology of the survey. http://manboobz.com/2011/12/11/rapists-lad-mags-and-the-mens-rights-subreddit/comment-page-2/#comment-95824
Second post, no mention of false accusations of rape:: http://manboobz.com/2011/12/11/rapists-lad-mags-and-the-mens-rights-subreddit/comment-page-2/#comment-95830
Third post, no mention of false accusations of rape: http://manboobz.com/2011/12/11/rapists-lad-mags-and-the-mens-rights-subreddit/comment-page-2/#comment-95834
Fourt post, no mention of false accusations of rape: http://manboobz.com/2011/12/11/rapists-lad-mags-and-the-mens-rights-subreddit/comment-page-2/#comment-95836
(See where I am going here. I am debunking your claim that I did not just roll up in here to start bleating about false rape accusations. I rolled up here to discuss the topic at hand, i.e. this survey and to discuss what it actually means).
My first mention of false accusations of rape was in my fifth post and all it did was say that I did not believe that we live in a “false rape society” like MRA believe. THAT WAS ALL. http://manboobz.com/2011/12/11/rapists-lad-mags-and-the-mens-rights-subreddit/comment-page-2/#comment-95852
The next mention was in answering someone who was shocked that I would claim we do not live in a false rape society given that I have a blog about my false accusation. http://manboobz.com/2011/12/11/rapists-lad-mags-and-the-mens-rights-subreddit/comment-page-3/#comment-95871
So no, I did not come in here bleating about false accusations.
Shora: forgot to add
“Stop derailing, and stop making this all about you, okay?”
If people would stop trying to make claims that I have said certain things when I clearly have not, then I wouldn’t have to explain why those people are wrong.
Okay, that’s it, two can play this game…
Are you saying ANY time a person rephrases you or reads you wrong, they’re making claims you’ve said things you haven’t? I think accusing people of putting words in your mouth is a big charge. Don’t you?
dan:
If you are going tomake a statement, and surround it with “ma propre opinion, might be wrong, who knows,” you can’t then use it in support of another statement. The more you try to protect something you say like that, the less supportive it is of anything else.
dan:
Then they add very little to the discussion. You can’t then proceed to use them as building blocks for any other point.
Dan, in the future just avoid bringing up the false rape accusation conversation in the middle of the rape conversation, okay? Only bad things can happen.