What’s the difference between a lad mag and a rapist? Aside from one being a magazine and the other a person, albeit an reprehensible one, apparently not very much.
In a study soon to be published in the British Journal of Psychology, researchers at Middlesex University and the University of Surrey showed people quotes about women from British lad mags (FHM, Loaded, Nuts and Zoo) and from convicted rapists. Most survey respondents – men and women both – could not tell the difference between the quotes from the magazines and the quotes from the rapists. And most of the male respondents identified more with the quotes from the rapists than from the lad mags.
Here are some of the quotes the survey respondents were asked to react to. (You can find more at Jezebel.) Can you tell which of these are from rapists or lad mags?
Mascara running down the cheeks means they’ve just been crying, and it was probably your fault . . . but you can cheer up the miserable beauty with a bit of the old in and out.
You’ll find most girls will be reluctant about going to bed with somebody or crawling in the back seat of a car . . . But you can usually seduce them, and they’ll do it willingly.
Some girls walk around in short-shorts . . . showing their body off . . . It just starts a man thinking that if he gets something like that, what can he do with it?
I think girls are like plasticine, if you warm them up you can do anything you want with them.
In case you’re wondering, the correct answers are: Lad mag, Rapist, Rapist, Lad Mag.
Creepy, eh?
Lead researcher Miranda Horvath of Middlesex University explains why she feels this is so troubling:
Rapists try to justify their actions, suggesting that women lead men on, or want sex even when they say no, and there is clearly something wrong when people feel the sort of language used in a lads’ mag could have come from a convicted rapist.
I would say so.
And so, you might wonder, how did the regulars on the Men’s Rights subreddit react this this research? Take a look.
The comment with the most upvotes offered some nice juicy denial:
The comment with the second-highest number of upvotes completely missed the point:
And then there was this hot mess:
In case anyone is wondering, that quote from French is actually a quote from a character in one of her novels. And it’s pretty easy to distinguish it from things posted on Jezebel, because none of the writers on Jezebel ever say anything even remotely like that.
The Men’s Rights subreddit, responding to evidence of rape culture by going “la la la I can’t hear you” since March 2008.
zhinxy: I vote that we always respond to NWO’s nonsense with stuff that has nothing to do with him: videos, recipes, funny cat pictures, etc. Because it would be a lot more fun than trying to get that asshat to see sense.
This is something I don’t understand, actually: is the FBI definition actually going to be used in any arrests or prosecutions? Or is it purely statistical?
Although at the same time I have the sinking feeling that the definition is in some ways always the same: “Whatever the cop who answers your call thinks it ought to be.” Sigh.
@KathleenB:
Seeing that NWO already responds to the hard questions with non-sequitors, we’d just be following along.
I see NWO is back with a new derail for this thread.
You can use “zie”!
You can use “zie”!
Darling, remember
It’s a third gender
Unlike “he” or “she”!
The boys and the girls might be the norm,
But some folks know they just don’t conform
To that binary –
It isn’t scary –
They just use “zie”!
*plays gender-neutral crab-bongos*
kirbywarp: It would be an epic circle of nonsense and non-sequitors. Eris would be pleased!
Polliwog: Holy crap, that is awesome. +a zillion internets for you.
As far as I can tell, the FBI definition is only for gathering data. So, presumably, since the new definition lines up a lot more precisely with statutory definitions of rape, we’ll see a big increase in federal crime figures and possibly federal funding to go along with it, because male/trans victims, victims of statutory rape, unconscious/intoxicated victims, etc., will be counted.
Things are much hotter, under the water, under the zie!
See, NWO, this is why the “zie creatures” are more fun at parties than you are.
NWO:
Ah, yes. So false accusations are less of a “definition of rape” problem and more of a “women are evil” problem. I see!
Bee:
Oops, I referred to it as law :-$ probably influenced by something NWO had said, which is… not the cleverest thing I’ve ever done.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXi8WmQ_WM&version=3&hl=en_US%5D
I’m glad to see your CTRL-V is in working order. I was so worried about you.
Kirby: “Just to clarify, and take this as a completely separate point from everything else. You said that there could not be a rape culture, because officers you talked to denounced the one’s actions. I said that you could do the same thing with the catholic church, and in that case it is more obvious that there is a culture of something going on their (you’ve even agreed).”
I don’t think I said that there could not be a rape culture because the officers spoke with denounced the actions of one. I said that the police officer asking if she enjoyed it was not an example of their being a rape culture because many more officers oppose the method of asking her about that night.
“But mostly everyone on this site will tell you that from stories they hear about and people they talk to, this rape culture is a present and real thing. You’ll have to do some research on your own if you want to be convinced; focus your efforts on the experiences of women who have actually been raped, and their experiences with the justice system.”
I know that there are many ways in which our system has failed victims of rape. But for it to be classified as a Rape Culture/Rape Society that would seem to be to require it to be purposeful instead of just flawed.
doesn’t this new definition include male victims too?
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/advisory-policy-board/advisory_policy_board
it’s fucking gender neutral and MRAs are still in hysterics? didn’t they WANT men to be recognized as victims of rape as well? and FEMINISTS actually WORKED for men to be included into this new definition? the cognitive dissonance must drive them bananas.
MRAs- constantly proving that they don’t care about men, and only care about protecting abusers and rapists by trying to destroy rape and DV laws.
I also see NWO is being dumber and even more evil than usual…glad I went out tonight ._.
Freemage: I am familiar with the movie. Even when I was younger when I saw the scene I knew something was wrong with it.
Bad fiction doesn’t prove anything.
Polliwog, that is now my THEME SONG.
I think that if you looked at what led (or probably led) the officer to ask that question and found that it was not rooted in any common cultural belief, belief system, or common story told in the media, you’d be right. If the officer, say, were having a psychotic break and talking like our own little milkslave, without any ties to reality, you’d have a point.
But we can look around at movies, TV, and news stories and see that there are these ideas about rape that paint the rapist as a misunderstood, though possibly bumbling, romantic and the rape victim as someone who either belatedly regretted her consent or just needed to have her mind changed. We know that whether the victim “enjoyed it” has absolutely no bearing on whether rape occurred. And we can see where the idea that there is a connection between the victim’s (unwilling) sexual pleasure and whether or not the rape was a “real rape” comes from in our culture.
We also know that even if someone made a racist generalization about a people, and every single one of their peers condemned this racist generalization, that does not mean that the racist generalization came from nowhere. Most people know that certain unpopular ideas such as racism, sexism, etc. ableism, are wrong, but our culture is still rife with those -isms. I suggest that rape culture is similarly recognizably abhorrent (so that 3rd parties oppose it, when asked), and also just as prevalent.
There are other things you can look at to see rape culture, but it seems to me that other people have already mentioned them/linked to them, and you’re just ignoring them.
NWOSLAVE: You are absolutely ridiculous.
I would personally argue that any rape implies force so the inclusion of the word is redundant. But excluding forcible make sure that there is no wiggle room and that all forms of rape achieved without consent qualify.
NWO, please note – even other men who are being perceived by most of the commenters here as not exactly being supportive of feminist ideas about rape think that you’re batshit crazy. This does not bode well in terms of your ability to recruit people to the cause.
I’m posting this from now on every time NWO starts with his oh woe is me that I’m not allowed to fuck 14 year olds, small children are flauting their bodies at me on the beach, feminists are evil, plus fluoride will kill us all nonsense.
Actually maybe this one works better. Rarr, NWO, the evil scary feminists are coming to get you along with the UN, the giant lizards, and the women from VAWA.
Or in answer to your belief that men have always been at war with feminist Eurasia – Nyan Cat in love.
NWOslave: I…can’t even begin to fathom how you have come across the idea that consent = rape. That’s like saying “full = empty.” They’re practically antonyms. Plus, as it has been repeatedly pointed out to you, it is in the new FBI definition.
You’ve broken your own record for how incredibly stupid and outlandish you can be, and that’s saying something. I can actually feel myself losing intelligence simply by seeing your words on my monitor (which is problematic, since I am studying for my Cognitive Neuroscience final).
Polliwog! Mad props!
Let’s rewrite popular Disney songs to illustrate feminist concepts. It would make a great concept album!
(Not getting into it with either Brandon or Owly…too squicky altogether.)
On the topic of rape and consent, I have a rather personal example. It might be triggering, so beware.
I was fooling around with a friend of mine. This happened quite a few times. I’d told him that I had a few rules: no vaginal penetration, no oral sex on me, and any oral sex on him was to be performed with a condom. I also had told him that I’d had a positive HIV test, and that was part (thought small) of my reasoning.
One night, when we were in bed, he rolled me on to my stomach and penetrated me very suddenly. I froze – absolute panic. I couldn’t speak, and I started blacking out – not the kind where I actually lost consciousness, but the walking-blackout kind, where apparently I was still awake, just not forming any memories of what was going on. I wanted him to stop, but I literally could not speak. I was so overwhelmed with fear and panic. Eventually, I did tell him to stop, because it hurt so much.
I kept sleeping with him. I don’t know why. I couldn’t explain that. One night, after drinking a considerable amount, I asked him for ibuprofen and he gave me codeine. He knew how much I’d had to drink, because the last thing I remember was him commenting on it. We had sex that night, this time with a condom. Condoms I had gone out and bought. Was I planning on having sex with him? No, I wasn’t, but I was worried that something would happen again, and if it did, I wanted condoms present.
Those events were rape. It doesn’t matter that he didn’t force me. He didn’t purposely hurt me. As a matter of fact, I don’t think he even knew what the hell he was doing. But that doesn’t change the truth of it. I wasn’t consenting. I didn’t want it to be happening. I wanted it to stop, but I was so panicked I couldn’t talk. I don’t blame him for not knowing that, but I had told him no penetration, and certainly not without a condom. And he put himself at risk for HIV.
I talked to him about it recently, and he was surprised that I felt the way that I did. He swore up and down I was consenting, but the thing is, he can’t decide that. He didn’t remember the conversations about boundaries (I admit they all happened when we were intoxicated, and he is not a person who remembers when drinking, so I believe him). You will note that he did not go to jail. His life was not ruined. Instead, all he lost was a friend, and possibly a little self-respect.
If I reported him, do you think anyone would take me seriously? I was already sexual with him, and continued to consent to things after the first rape. If I can’t remember, how can I know I didn’t consent? People like this guy. They know how he is – he’s a bit of a player. That’s rape culture, right there. It wouldn’t matter who I was or what I wanted. My behavior would be used against me. I don’t really want to drag him or myself through that, and I don’t think anything good would come of it.
If I thought he were dangerous, I’d want to report him. I don’t, so I’m not going to. But just because he didn’t hit me or hold me down doesn’t mean it wasn’t rape.