Over on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit, cheester warns all of us dudes about an especially insidious form of anti-male oppression: the racks of women’s magazines that lurk near the checkout counters of grocery stores everywhere!
can I get some feedback on womens magazines at the grocery checkout? Every issue states “new tricks he doesn’t know in bed” and shite like that. It’s obvious porn for the gals but why is it so accepted by everyone that it has carte blanche to be within a two foot reach as I pay for my food? If a magazine for men had on the cover: “20 Ways To Make Her Squirm Like A Fish”….there would be a national outrage.
Yeah, it’s not like Men’s magazines ever run anything like that.
Church groups and womens rights would say it demoralizes women and have the publication banned or put behind censored racks in seedy smoke shops.
Yeah. It’s not like this ever happens to women’s magazines.
But the womens mags are right there as a last shop item in the flourescent lit, sterilized, family atmosphere where every mother parades her toddlers and kids right past the 3 letter word in big black block letters;SEX on the cover of every flashy colored womens mag that comes out each month.
Not only is this oppression of men, it’s oppression of all toddlers who can read and know what the word “sex” means.
Also, feminists have never criticized women’s magazines in any way. “Ten Ways to Make Him Squirm” articles are the distilled essence of feminism! And most of them are written by the ghost of Andrea Dworkin.
NOTE: Does this even need a “sarcasm” tag?
*not a third date.
typing is hard like math
“Zhinxy, are suggesting that abusers don’t, on the first date, smack their date across the face in the middle of the coffeeshop, announce to all the bystanders that he plans on making this a pattern in the future, and then turns back to ask his lady to move in with him which she gleefully does?
‘Cause I had totally thought that’s how it went. :p”
As we speak, there’s a PUA writing the ultimate manual on this form of Game. Only he’s trying to leave out the “she moves in” part, which before now, wasn’t optional.
We await news!
I thought that abusers wore badges that clearly identified them. You’re telling me that they don’t?
The world now lies in tatters.
DKM said@2:24pm:
“SaruGoku-December 2, 2011 @ 2:55am
I completely agree with you (and the other manboobzettes commenting on DV in this article)! It is bizarre that a abuse victim should return to her abuser, or, even more pathetic, even when “liberated” from abuser #!, then finds a similar pathogenic relationship with abuser #2, and so on!”
No, they have their reasons and those reasons are quite understandable if you actually talk to them. From there you can help them do whatever it is that they really want to do but they can’t make that kind of decision in the heat of the moment or if they aren’t in a safe place. We’re talking about some very complex psychological issues here but if we make it possible for them to leave at some point they will probably do so.
“I always think that it wouldn’t hurt to ask, not to cast blame or aspersions on anybody, but simply to understand what is going on?”
Obviously the only way we know for certain is to ask them and that’s what shelter workers do. We aren’t extrapolating or guessing, we know why they go back because we’ve asked them and worked with them.
“The “fighting as foreplay” theory I described earlier may describe some couples who are trapped in an abusive relationship –”good fight before a good night”–but there are certainly many others.”
If you’re talking about physical violence here, that’s abusive behaviour. Couples with a good relationship do not beat one another up for fun unless their in carefully controlled BDSM relationships (and that’s a different issue) or they play-wrestle with nobody getting hurt. I’m not even really sure what kind of behaviors you’re talking about here.
“I have an addiitonal question,SaruGoku, while we are on the subject. Why,and how, is it, with the millions upon millions of thoughtful, considerate, gentle, and loving men. available ( in all income levels, racial and religious groups, nationalities, and geographical areas) what in blue blazes turns otherwise intelligent women on to brutal, sadistic and vicious sociopaths? Why don’t they RUN–the way I am sure you and 80%+ of other women would do–at the prospect of a mere “fiest date”? Why do they move in with badboy–over the good advice of motherdear, other older women in her family, and sometimes even her friends, sometimes rejecting a much better boyfriend or lover in the process???
I don’t know, you don’t know, ilithiana–despite her voluminous source material on DV posted here, doesn’t know–and nobody knows! We can guess, but most of our guesses, in the absence of peoples’ experiences, are incomplete at best, and probably wrongheaded at worst.”
Yes, we do, the victims I’ve spoken to at any length say that they didn’t know their partner was abusive until after they’d moved in with him or even had children by him. Abusers don’t advertise the fact and can always come up with some kind of justification, however spurious for their behavior and they often end up convincing the unfortunate victim that they’re right. It seems to work a bit like Stockholm Syndrome. They end up trusting their partners motivations for their behavior and blaming themselves. It’s not that hard to do if the victim believes the abuser is trustworthy or wants to trust them. Women don’t generally start a relationship with someone they know to be abusive, the abuse often starts months or years later when trust has been established and the victim will find it very difficult to leave.
Okay, so the conversation has moved on, but I have to say David Usher + Phyllis Schalfly blew my head off. Because in my world, David Usher is this:
Continued…
“All of this would be incomplete without noting, at least in passing, the grim point that sometimes abuse becomes MORE serious, even lethal, over time. A partner will sooner or later end up risking her LIFE for a worthless, vicious, sadistic brute, when there are countless better men available! I suggested in other posts the return of arranged marraiges, with more professional “matchmaker” and family–especially the older women in the family–supervision, but most of you didn’t like that either!”
Generally yes, it does get worse overtime and can be lethal. No, arranged marriages won’t help because abusers convince the friends and family of what a wonderful person they are and often if the victim turns to them for help they won’t believe her and will side with her abuser. This is not at all uncommon, especially if he’s bided his time and the victim seemed to be happy with him for a substantial period of time.
“Now everyone is stuck with a growing problem, that has nothng but slogans and palliatives on one side, and men (entirely understandably) being defensive and paranoid against your accusations on the other (also understandably, if not overdue). Jailing, for example, is probably less effective than ilithiana, and other such legalists would like, since given the nature of prisons dehumaizes and brutalizes already vicious men even more, as well as filling them with a desire for revenge at all costs, not only against she-victim, but probably against women generally, once he gets out.”
There you go blaming us for the problem. Again. When the real issue lies with the perpetrators. We help the victims. That’s our job, to provide help and support to battered women but we have no means of stopping the perpetrators. We can do a lot for the victims but we can’t force them to do what we think would be best for them. Those decisions can be made by the victims alone and they must be given the space and respect to come to their own conclusions. That’s part of what heals them: being treated with respect and allowed to make their own decisions. We don’t have all the answers and we don’t claim to but we do as much, in as many ways as we are equipped to, so I really don’t think that the type of criticism you’re throwing around is in any way just.
DKM:
We’ve done a he’ll of a lot in the past twenty-five years. We’ve not been able to stop the abusers but we’ve set up effective ways of helping the victims. If nothing else the shelter movement has provided safe places for women and children to go and have access to services that will help them to leave abusers if that’s what they want to do and find accommodation, medical and psychiatric, and financial help. If you don’t see that as useful in terms of helping them leave their abusers then I don’t know what is. We’ve not been able to stop men battering but I don’t see that as being our problem. no matter what feminists do the batterers are not going to stop. That will take pressure from other men because they have made it quite clear that they don’t care what women say or do or they wouldn’t be battering.
So what is it that you’re recommending? Putting the whole thing in the too-hard basket? Doing nothing? No, we’ll keep on doing what we are doing and fielding and caring for the victims and hope that well meaning and helpful men will be able to deal with the perpetrators.
This isn’t a matter of women=good, men= bad. Abusers make up a small proportion of the population and we aren’t going to write off the rest because of them. We can’t solve the problem in the long term without the help of decent men but there are heaps of them out there and a lot of them already work with abusers and can do a far better job of stopping them that female feminists could do. That doesn’t mean that what we have done is without value.
David K. Meller, I’d like to posit something.
I’ve had terrible luck with people recently. This summer, I got involved with a guy who ended up raping me – we’d been friends and colleagues for a year, so I thought I knew him well enough to trust him. A few weeks ago, I got involved with another guy, who had been a very good friend to me, who lied to me and used me for sex, while claiming to be my friend. My ex-fiancee sent me a letter about how I was a terrible partner and he was miserable all along, those delightful 4 years he was with me. So, I’m feeling a bit down.
Find me one of these great, wonderful partners you seem to know so much about. I want to find one, and it seems that people I thought I could trust don’t contain them. I don’t care about height, weight, income, any of that right now.
How do I tell who these great people are who won’t hurt me? I’m pretty shaken by these last few months, so if you could point me in the right direction, I’d like that.
Klopbop:
I’m so sorry you’ve been having such a dreadful time. Some people are just ratfinks and you seem to have encountered a lot more than your share.
Meller: I don’t–and never wanted to–”blame the victim in” in DV cases!
Bullshit. You said that lots of women who get beaten are only beaten because they “choose to push his buttons until he reacts”.
Don’t be a lying sack of shit, own your words.
Really, it’s ok. We won’t think any less of you, I promise.
Mellerand the importance of keeping the father of the child(ren) in the marriage (or partnership) at all costs!
At all costs? I thought that she could leave if he was abusive. Oh, wait, I forgot, she can leave if her father/brothers agree he’s abusive (and he probably has a reason to hit her. Praise is “better”, but force is still an option, and; as Gor tells us, even the best slaves sometimes want a taste of the strap).
But since she’s property (of the state; hence the being given to brothels if she doesn’t save it for the man she isn’t ever going to leave), it’s up to someone else. Her needs/wants aren’t an issue.
heroicman: This women Dr. Tara Palmitieri she is a psychologist that counsels men who are victims of emotional domestic abuse by women.
And she’s daft.
It’s also amusing (in the, “if I don’t laugh I’ll cry sort of way) the dichotomy the MRA make, at the same time they make a conflation.
1: They say verbal abuse is exactly equal to physical; and then use that to say women are more, “abusive” than men.
2: They refuse to admit that physical abusers are also verbal abusers.
Add the question of parity. One argument with some nasty verbal jabs isn’t the equivalent of one argument that ends up with someone being hit.
MRAs are right, that all abuse is bad. They are wrong in how they define abuse.
Meller: I was accused here of ignorance of Domestic Violence, and my proposed answer was rejected for that reason. Why should I be taken to task for wanting impartial studies
Because your definition of, “impartial” is pretty much, “says it’s women’s fault.”
If not because they “ask for it”, because they don’t do enough to make men “happy” and that makes men angry, and so they, regrettably, lash out.
Never mind that men have been beating women for millenia , and that other men have complained about it (and passed laws against it; one doesn’t pass laws against things that don’t happen), nope. DV is is because of feminism, and any study which doesn’t say that is wrong.
That’s why people take you to task… you say stupid stuff like that.
heroicman: The MRM is a legitimate movement. The average men’s rights activist (MRA) is hostile to feminism. And yet he also agrees fundamentally with the feminist agenda.
How does this work?
Because I’ve looked for those MRAs who “agree with the feminist agenda” and I’ve not found them. What I do find is a lot of MRAs who use rhetoric which sounds like “the feminist agenda”, but isn’t actually what they mean (see above, re conflation of two types of abuse, and different ways of measuring severity/levels of abuse).
This leads to the odd situation of feminists arriving at MRA websites, liking what they read, proposing a grand alliance with the MRM, before being angrily chased away by the MRAs.
What, women come in and say, “Great Ideas Guys. I’m a feminist and I’d like to help!? No. Someone comes in, makes a statement and has a nom-de-net they think is feminine and they start slagging the person.
I understand where your pov is regarding women liking what they see on various MRA sites. Some MRA sites such as The Spearhead and A Voice for Men does exhibit misogyny. You have to understand though SaruGoku, a lot of these bitter at women MRA men have been hurt by women in their lives. They are just angry. I am not excusing these angry guys but just let you know. Some of theses MRA guys get less angry as you get to know them as people.
Yes, you are excusing them. You are saying they have justifications for being assholes. You can say you disapprove, but you accept them as legitimate MRAs (and don’t tell me you don’t. If you accept AVFM, and The Spearhead, as MRAs, you pretty much have to take every asshole who hates that women are anything close to equal in any sphere; and chooses to call himself an MRA. You’ve claimed Breivik with this one…).
That’s an excuse.
Bee: Jesus fucking fuck, Meller. DV victims are often encouraged by their friends and family to just stay with their abuser. “It’s not that bad.” “It’ll get better” Etc. And in periods and places where women had less self-sufficiency and did end up in arranged marriages, guess what? Some of them were still abused!
That is Meller’s view. The woman should stay in the relationship, “at all costs.” If she is being abused a (male) family member will evaluate it and decide if the abuse is “real”. If it is, he will rescue her.
Part 1
Note to all: I do this sort of rhetorical analysis at work and for fun, and it was a happy way to spend an hour not going into work and grading papers which, alas, I must do now. But I will be able to look much more kindly on my students’ work knowing how much better even the worst of them are at writing than DKM. Cheers!
Current scorecard on challenges:
DKM never (as far as I knew) replied to my river challenge, so I declare myself a winner there.
The current challenge: the concept of “unbiased” (read: not by feminists) studies on Domestic Violence, the issue of “what is known” (presumably by professionals in a number of fields such as psychology, counseling, law enforcement, the judicial system, etc.) about Domestic violence, what needs to be known to make statements that are not going to be mocked on manboobz, etc.
DKM has thrown down the glove (I imagine it as lace trimmed, embroidered by one of his lady loves) in return to my….um….gauntlet (large, spiked, spattered with blood) over “READING COMPREHENSION”.
So: warning! What follows is a series of posts (to avoid held up for undue linkage and the fact that the original word document I prepared this rant in is now 14 pages long) that summarize the main thread of ONE of the multiple discussions on this thread, with links, quotes, summaries, my ongoing spot analyses, all to support my conclusion that DKM does in fact fail in reading comprehension (meaning: understanding the main points of what is written, whether he agrees with them or not) but excels in obfuscation, bloviating, and gaslighting. Although he begins by asking for studies (presumably to educate himself), he ends, as Sharculese predicts halfway through, in a total meltdown begging to be shot because of “feminuttery.” I will refrain from hoping somebody answers his prayer.
So: it began (as far as I can tell with):
Sharculese (http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-1/#comment-91304
) tells DKM that he ought to do some “basic reading” on domestic violence before announcing his “magic cure” [said magic cure being women NOT provoking men to violence]. This is seconded by Moewicus and Holly Pervocracy.
DKM replies: (http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-1/#comment-91312):
Not summarizing or paraphrasing because I want the full DKMglory to show. His claim here is that is somebody could show him studies NOT produced by those i.d.f., and if those studies are “reasonably impartial and intelligent” (which feminists are not), he “would be delighted to read about it” (you know someday, I’m going to count up how many clichés in his posts vs. others because all those ‘old sayings’ he comes up with are the folk equivalent of NWO’s 1911 Britannica). Anyway–that was his request.
I am also fairly sure that he has read no “studies” whatsoever — and I’m not all that sure he’s read any feminist blogs talking about the studies, although he may have read MRM or media sites talking about some of the studies (the fact that academic studies are constantly misrepresented, oversimplified, and often their findings ‘reversed’ in msm is something that can only be judged by reading the actual study–hard for many people who don’t have access to the horribly expensive databases).
Part 2
Brandon MANFULLY strides in from his mountain of Olympian objectivity and declaims MASTERFULLY (http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-1/#comment-91316):
I of course dare not with my girly little brain paraphrase BRANDON, but basically, what I’m seeing is that Brandon is seconding DKM’s request for studies done by NONfeminsits (I actually rarely know the political and ideological affiliations of many of the academics whose work I read) that are Nonbiased.
So; two requests for studies on domestic violence from two MRA proponents who believe that anything produced by a “feminist” (however they define it) is suspect.
Moewicus (http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-1/#comment-91317) get a GOLD STAR EXTRA CREDIT for pointing out that a basic rhetorical principle (I’ve taught it myself, and while it’s basic, it’s damn hard for people) is understanding the arguments made by the opposing side so that one can construct a more persuasive argument).
Part 3
Holly asks an incredible pertinent question: (http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-1/#comment-91318):
Brandon says: he doesn’t care! As long as the study is unbiased (right after Holly’s so not dumping in another link). He is pwned by Holly who gives him a study on mice, and Sharculese who asks him to define what he means by fair, unbiased, etc. and asks what he knows about statistics and methodology (all valid questions, because that’s how one evaluates studies). That is, if one is not BRANDON with his MANLY KNOWLEDGE gained from drinking beer and reading girlymags at age 14.
More mocking of Brandon ensues, as usual.
Then enters DKM who is driven to the company of dolls because of the horribleness of modern women/feminists (hey, girls, we can be really proud of saving the world or at least part of it from having to live with DKM because of our superpowers):
(http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-2/#comment-91345)
This request is in fact NOT completely unreasonable, and while as a teacher I must point out that it is far better to teach people to find appropriate resources on any topic than find them for them (fish, day, life, etc. one of those old folk sayings which I’m sure DKM lives by), it’s also true that I love finding sources. So I bravely donned my Armor Of Truth And Righteousness, Bolstered by my Incredible Google-Fu, and ventured out into the Forest of Studies on Domestic Violence.
In other words, dear readers, I Googled. I forget what exact phrase I used, but I remember skipping the first three or four hits because they clearly led to OMG FEMINIST SITES.
Part 4
But then I found the PROSECUTING ATTORNEY OF CLARK COUNTY’S SITE!
With “FAST FACTS” on domestic violence. I clicked the link (using my Phallic Lance of Academic Elite Status) and found a page that provided a quick overview of many of the main talking points about Domestic Violence with (and this was the important part) attribution to multiple studies done over time (and one doesn’t get to just dismiss studies done earlier without reviewing them: the latest studies will be by people who have studied the earlier studies. Unlike DKM’s wild fantasies, academic work by trained people isn’t done in a vacuum.
Note I am very carefully not claiming any inherent smartness of high IQ for academics: an academic is somebody trained extensively in a narrow field. I grew up with an academic for a father; I am an academic. Academia is full of fatheads who can behave in completely stupid ways both inside and outside their field of expertise.
Ahem. So, OK, armed with a site from a prosecuting attorney’s office (though I knew NWO would dismiss it), I prepared a post giving the link to the Fast facts, noting that this prosecuting attorney’s site had a specific named page for MEN as Domestic Violence Victims, and I cut’n’pasted the FAST FACTS which in essence are the ‘facts’ that are widely agreed upon by the experts in Domestic Violence (even if there are some disagreements in numbers, percentages, etc.). These may change over time, but I imagine these are fairly representative of what people working in the various professional and academic fields think are the “facts” about Domestic Violence that they can work with.
http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-2/#comment-91360
And I challenged Brandon and DKM to review the work, specifically:
Brandon as usual is weaseling (he doesn’t talk to me very much, alas). I must be too old and fat and use too many big words (I’ve always been told that intimidates men, which has been very useful in my life), and DKM apparently TRIED to take me up on my challenge.
However, Sharculese pointed out exactly what DKM would do, and I just have to link to that in admiration: (http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-2/#comment-91350).
You can go down to my last part in this series and see S. is exactly right!
DKM posted about all the evil feminist studies (which in fairness to him, I think he was responding to Holly’s question about what studies, and he hadn’t read my fuckingass long post yet), and was mocked (fairly enough) to garbled syntax, including the great diagram with dinosaurs (Holly, I think if diagramming sentences included dinosaurs, they’d still be teaching it in the schools!)
Part 5
Kirbywarp points out “purpose of a study” and what NOT do to with it: AKA exactly what DKM and Brandon are doing, or trying to do. http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-2/#comment-91394
Naira points out the skillset you need to evaluate a study: http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-2/#comment-91403
(This is good to point out because as I will be telling DKM late, being able to quote a few facts from something you’ve read is not in fact sufficient evidence of real comprehension.)
Part 6
A small digression for dinosaur discussion, although Kirbywarp points out, astutely, that
http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-2/#comment-
2- D Man comes in with a lovely deadpan piece of snark:
*APPLAUDS*
http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-3/#comment-91434
Part 7
The first post in which DKM acknowledges, sort of, my earlier post, though not actually talking directly to me!
http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-4/#comment-91627
469 words in a post he later (see Part 8) claims he proves he read my post; he also claims my “FAIL” grade proves my reading incomprehension, which is, of course, what elicited my SPAM OF FEMINIST DOOM.
Here are the specific parts of the post where he mentions my post directly:
ithiliana [corrected spelling of my name one; student must correct other similar errors]–despite her voluminous source material on DV posted here, doesn’t know–
Jailing, for example, is probably less effective than ilithiana, and other such legalists would like,
Paragraph 6: states that abuse escalates over time, but uses this as support for arranged marriages (which is all his own cloth–the Fast Facts on Domestic Violence does not in fact present that as a solution).
DKM: you pustulent prick, do you know that there are some fairly damning statistics on domestic violence and murder in India where arranged marriages are still the norm? Google “bride burning” and “dowry deaths” if you don’t believe me (and I assume you don’t, since FEMINIST!!!!! *oogie boogie woogie*)
What DKM’s post oes not show: acknowledgement of the source of the material I posted (he keeps saying “I mentioned” which is bizarre: you did understand that the “fast facts” are copied from the prosecuting attorney’s web site? And they are SUMMARIES of conclusions reached by many studies? They will not distinguish about what has changed over time because of the nature of the site: it’s NOT an academic site; it’s NOT a professional site; it’s a site for the general public who are generally fairly ignorant about the FACTS of Domestic Violence. AKA, you and Brandon. So, no, your failure to show any rhetorical awareness of the nature, purpose, and message of the site, which was posted in response to an earlier more general expressed desire for unbiassed studies, only proves that your reading comprehension is incredibly low, certainly not high enough to earn a passing grade in a first year college composition class.
So, no, this post does not give me any textual evidence that you read or understood what I posted (and remember, I do this for a living).
And that if you are serious in seeing this basic, minimal information as “voluminous” (as opposed to sarcastic), then you are truly ignorant about what constitutes a “voluminous” body of information. I’m an English teacher, and I bet I could give you a bibliography of 500 scholarly articles on Domestic Violence after just a few moments in the social science and psychology databases.
I repeat: that “Fast Facts” sheet was minimal, written for general audience, but also gave names and sources so that anybody who wanted to educate themselves more (NOT YOU AND BRANDON) could do so, especially since a lot of the material is by state and federal government agencies which practice open access–i.e. you can find the studies on the database and often in libraries (government documents section.
OVERVIEW OF RHETORIC OF DKM’S POST (the claims he made have been more than convincingly rebutted by others):
Paragraph 1: claims to agree with all of us that victims returning to abusers is “bizarre” [following posts by a number of us make it clear that at least a good number of us don’t think that at all, and that there are studies on the psychology of this, so his claim to agreement is completely SPURIOUS and only operates to set up the rest of the babble that follows]
PARA 2: claims to have theories but dare not speak because he will be accused of “blaming the victim” [And since his theories are ALL blaming the victim, blaming women, blaming the feminist, this is in fact one statement that is correct, though he’s presenting it as insult “feminese.” Oh, DKM, is our girly talk too hard for your porcelain shell like ears?)
PARA 3: Claims he just wants to ask, not blame anybody. Continues to confuse consensual BDSM with abuse. Handwaves existence of many theories he cannot in fact name. [In his world, theory is apparently guess is apparently why he thinks any of what he says deserves attention at all.]
PARA 4: Quoted exactly because this is a question that was NOT raised before (look at all the links I provided if you do not believe me, and yet he “blames” me for not answering this question: I have an addiitonal question,SaruGoku, while we are on the subject. Why,and how, is it, with the millions upon millions of thoughtful, considerate, gentle, and loving men. available ( in all income levels, racial and religious groups, nationalities, and geographical areas) what in blue blazes turns otherwise intelligent women on to brutal, sadistic and vicious sociopaths? Why don’t they RUN–the way I am sure you and 80%+ of other women would do–at the prospect of a mere “fiest date”? Why do they move in with badboy–over the good advice of motherdear, other older women in her family, and sometimes even her friends, sometimes rejecting a much better boyfriend or lover in the process???
Also quoted for the mindboggingly ignorance stereotypical claptrap that other posters have demolished. But the purpose here is to note that this is a NEW question, not asked before (aka: moving goalposts).
PARA 5: NOBODY KNOWS! OH WOES! The absolute dickbiscuitry of this paragraph (besides the completely false claim of “voluminous” to describe a single fact page) is the claim that most of our guesses, in the absence of peoples’ experiences, are incomplete at best, and probably wrongheaded at worst.. DKM, you loathesome piece of shit: there are people in here with experiences who are telling you things, and you are completely fucking ignoring them.
PARA 6: cites the abuse becoming more serious over time BUT gee that would all be solved with arranged marriages. Because abuse never exists in arranged marriages.
PARA 7: Oh, wow, this fucking beautiful in the way a poisonous oil slick that drowns and poisons at the same time is beautiful: “everyone is stuck with a growing problem.” (Well, yeah, he admits there’s a problem, I guess that’s progress). The ONLY thing that feminists are doing is “slogans and palliatives” (ooh, fancy word DKM, do you know what it means), which make the POOR POOR ABUSED MEN “entirely understandably) being defensive and paranoid” (because NO women ever abuse, and NO men ever work against domestic violence–DKM’s blazing ignorance outshines the sun).
Then he mentions me again: Jailing, for example, is probably less effective than ilithiana, and other such legalists would like,
DKM you ignorant shit: link to a single place where I’ve advocated jail for Domestic Violence.
You take it from there…: Ah, he returns again to his favorite wanking fantasy of men descending en masse from prisons to wipe out all the nasty modern feminists so all can live in peace and harmony with their dolls.
I call him on his FAIL
http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-4/#comment-91629
Part 8
DKM tries to call me on what he sees as MY fail, which is of course the reason for my giant spam! AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!
http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-4/#comment-91635
From lesser to greater points:
1. My FAIL is bigger than your fail, so I win!
2. Your ethos would be a lot better if you didn’t continually misspell people’s names, just saying.
3. In my Part 7 post, I covered exactly the extent to which you “cited a number of points” from my post: you numbnuts, even you can list only one point (the other two things were saying I didn’t know, and I advocated jailing as the cure for domestic violence).
4. I completely agree with and understand Saru Goku’s points (and SG seems to understand and agree with mine, the only one failing to read here is YOU, you necrophiliac concatenation of sewage and bile.)
And then here’s the total winner:
5. that the studies I posted did not address the question of why women keep choosing men who abuse them (BLAMINGTHEVICTIM)! The studies I posted did not address this question DKM you stinkingly putrid slug of a man because that wasn’t the question you or Brandon asked: remember?
(http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-2/#comment-91345)
You asked for it. You got it. And you aren’t in the least “willing to give up any of your mistaken beliefs,” especially the ones that blame women for marrying abusers and provoking them, that blame women for not leavnig abusers (even if abusers often kill women when they leave, and often threaten and DO kill family pets, children, and other family members), and that blame feminists for making this all up to HURT MEN.
5. And then this little jewel: As far as my reading comprehension goes, I couldn’t comprehend anyting in your post to answer the question, because you never even asked it!
Huh?
I admit to total comprehension fail for that sentence, but I think at least part of the responsibilit lies in your syntactical FAIL.
You did not ‘comprehend’ anything in my post to speak of because you apparently fail to understand the source, the purpose, and the audience for the “Fast Facts” page (which I explain above). Being able to cite a fact or two is not in fact true comprehension (except on the lowest scale of Bloom’s taxonomy, and you aren’t even close to that).
Part 9: THE END
And your lack of reading comprehension is shown by the fact that a series of excellent posts by Saru Goku and Holly and Zhinxy covering a range of personal experiences with Domestic Violence issues from personal to professional is met with the following Mellorbabble:
http://manboobz.com/2011/12/01/new-form-of-anti-male-oppression-discovered-womens-magazines-in-checkout-lines/comment-page-5/#comment-91691
Since I’ve never seen you advocate anything for women, I don’t believe it will be necessary to send you posts to remind you not to do so, but please, feel free to bookmark the nine-part series I’ve provided if it will help you in your future misogynistic maunderings.
And, btw, the FAIL still stands. You did not convince me that you had even a minimal level of reading compehension.
ithiliana: I love a good fisking in the morning.
Thank you.
ithiliana: This rebuttal is a thing of beauty and a joy forever. Thank you.