Here’s a little exchange from Reddit that I found on ShitRedditSays that basically sums up everything that’s less-than-charming about the site. We start off with a blanket statement of male superiority, followed by an enthusiastically upvoted rape joke, and then we get massive downvoting and a “fuck you” to someone who’s challenging the blanket statement. (If you follow the link you’ll see that Butch_Magnus isn’t the only one jumping on piv0t.)
The context: This is from the Pics subreddit; they’re discussing a “sexist treadmill” with a control panel that looks like this:
Don’t think our faces don’t appreciate it, Bagelsan.
I actually agree with the full disclosure thing, though Savage put it in an uncessarily hostile way. Why would you not disclose that? To me it falls under the same umbrella as me disclosing that I’m bi, which I would do on the first date, if not before. Orientation just seems like standard information that someone you’re considering a relationship with needs to know.
Oh, lawd, I knew Savage could be dense about a lot of things, let me just add that to the list. There is unfortunately a certain breed of person who can’t get it into their head that sex is not important to certain people for various reasons. (This is a litmus test I use whenever I find sex-positive feminists or sex blogs or whatever; if the person can’t accept that some people are just not very sexual, and if they seem to be more interested in shaming “prudes” than fighting negative stereotypes and advocating for healthy relationships, then I leave.)
Savage has gotten glittered a couple of times recently for some of the things he’s said about trans stuff. If you want to find some really saddening arguments just look at the comment threads on any LGBT website that’s reported it. I think the Bilerico threads have been derailed in every possible way.
@Cassandra- I have a feeling it has a lot to do with how heterosexual is default in our society, esp. for women. You’re not actively having sex with a lady RIGHT NOW? You must be hetero!
… in conclusion, people are silly.
Also, Dan Savage is terrible at fat people and fat sexuality. It makes me and my fat ass so. freaking. angry.
Yeah, I have no issue with sexuality disclosure. I do have huge issues with the way Savage talked about it.
On a related note, the only Tumblr I actually look at repeatedly is fucknodansavage.
To me this is part of a larger issue with Savage, in which he has no patience with anyone whose libido is lower than his, and tends to default to answer that privilege the hornier partner in most situations.
Hey
@Rutee,
My gf and I don’t attend many GLBT events/meetings much anymore, since she already gets shit for being bi, and I just can’t stand the way some (I emphasize some here) people treat her for dating a guy. I’m just the first person she met that she liked when she got to college, nothing special about my identity to her. But no, she’s betraying something or other, or being a slut.
I understand when people get angry at her ability to “pass” as normal, and I recognize that my presence has helped her avoid negative treatment that she receives walking with her best friend (apparently when they’re hanging out together, they’re together and free targets for everyone…). However, I get frustrated with the way she is treated for choosing me. I don’t get much more than general distance since I am as gender normative (identity-wise at least) as I could come (as well as having privilege out the wazoo), but for her to be excluded because she hasn’t found someone of her identity is infuriating to me, and extremely hurtful to her.
As I’ve said, I can understand a limited amount of distrust to allies when they first approach a group, but when GLBT groups push away bi/trans/pan/non-gay/lesbian people, I wonder at their reasoning.
Also, I’m all in favor of supportive undergarment jogging, since jiggling (for everyone) can be annoying and possible distract from your own running.
There are various things I “disclose” when meeting people even in non-dating situations, just because that’s how I roll and that’s the nature of human interactions, and those can be at various times. I tend to tell people within the first few minutes of chatting that I am a huge geek, for example, and I’ve told people that I have a flu immediately to avoid a contagious handshake, and I’ve told people that I don’t like baseball months after meeting them, etc. Usually more relevant things get told earlier. If I actually wanted to start a relationship with someone I would likely let them know my deal after introducing myself but before the wedding, for example. ;p
This is a strange topic, because in some ways the idea that asexual people are somehow tricking sexual people into relationships with them hinges on the concept that people are entitled to sex, which is deeply problematic. But otoh there was that thread at Feministe in which there was an asexual person defending his right not to disclose his orientation because it would limit his romantic options, and that’s not OK either, because it’s also problematic to deliberately withold information that you think would make a person not want to date you.
I am conflicted on Dan Savage. He says good things most of the time, and he’s done a lot of good work, and I’ll read four or so columns in a row and be all, “Good stuff, Dan Savage, very good”…and then the fifth one will have some stupid shit about [insert basically any group other than polyamorous skinny gay dudes here] and how they are somewhat lesser beings insofar as they are not polyamorous skinny gay dudes. I am fairly convinced that Dan Savage is a basically smart guy whose one fundamental flaw is that he cannot QUITE wrap his head around the notion that all people everywhere might not actually aspire to be Dan Savage.
I love the word queer. I love it! To me it just means, “not cisgendered, heterosexual, and heteroromantic.”
My pet peeve with LGBT community is a tendancy among some to insist that we label ourselves. While this works for a lot of people, I think it does a diservice to folks who are questioning, or who find their sexuality evolving over time.
Recently I’ve heard a newish acronym being tossed around for the community which I really love because not only is it more inclusive, it leaves space for people who haven’t got it all figured out yet.
Its QUILTBAG: Queer/Questioning, Unidentified, Intersex, Lesbian, Transgender/Transexual, Bisexual, Asexual, Gay
Also with the extra added bonus of being an honest to gosh, pronouncable work. 😀
DM, then your queer is different to my queer. It’s a queer old word…
Incidentally, speaking of Savage and the word “queer,” I’m curious what other people’s reactions were to his latest column: http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=10811172 – specifically the idea of someone being a “queer heterosexual.”
Actually, yea. I just read that and it kind of puzzled me. Are we now using “queer” as a word for “ally” and “straight” as a word for “privileged douchebag” what?
If I were to say “I identify as a queer heterosexual cis woman!” I suspect that most people would a) have no idea what the fuck I’m talking about and b) give me the ol’ side-eye for appropriating a term that does not belong to me, and have a good reason for it.
Also, I’m not queer. I’m straight. Straight is not a bad word, kindly don’t act as if it is and also don’t tell me what my identity is, thanks.
Wait, what??? There do exist queer heterosexuals– trans people who are hetero can accept that label if they want to. But a straight cismale who is merely an ally and hangs out with queer folk all the time? Please don’t. ):
Also, while people are attracted to whatever they’re attracted to, and you can’t force anyone to be attracted to a trans woman’s body, it does seem like FRAUD could use a sit-and-think-about-this-harder moment or two. Is he weirded out by the fact that a woman he is actually attracted to “used to be male”? Or does he just not find trans bodies appealing? Glossing over that distinction and telling him he’s such a great ally that he’s actually queer, and that his friends are merely “cranky” people who refuse to return the favor of him bestowing his straight-person acceptance on them, is pretty repellant.
I actually do know some people who identify as queer straight people. Mostly it has to do with their gender presentation, romantic inclinations (usually poly), or approach to sexuality (ie they do not privilege PIV, they are kinky, etc.). I wouldn’t use the term for myself since straight people have straight privilege, but some people do have well thought out reasons for doing it, even if I’m not sure I agree with them in all cases.
Actually, yea. I just read that and it kind of puzzled me. Are we now using “queer” as a word for “ally” and “straight” as a word for “privileged douchebag” what?
If I were to say “I identify as a queer heterosexual cis woman!” I suspect that most people would a) have no idea what the fuck I’m talking about and b) give me the ol’ side-eye for appropriating a term that does not belong to me, and have a good reason for it.
Also, I’m not queer. I’m straight. Straight is not a bad word, kindly don’t act as if it is and also don’t tell me what my identity is, thanks.
You basically nailed all my feelings on it. Glad it’s not just me. 🙂
*starts singing*
Everyone is queer, in their own way.
Everybody’s sex just ain’t the same.
Some people like to fight,
‘Bout calling their desires by the right name.
But everyone is queer in their own way.
Each in their own particular way.
There’s the bits that make you happy,
There’s the bits that make you hot.
There’s the people there that like to fuck,
and the people that do not.
And in this big ol’ crazy world,
Can be tough just to survive.
Especially when the one you love
Is looking for their five.
Everyone is queer, in their own way.
Everyone’s got something they pursue.
And some of them take flak,
For the qualities they lack or things they do.
Everyone is queer, in their own way.
In their own unique and bizarre way.
Everybody!
Yikes! Stay classy, Reddit.
Ughhh, Dan Savage…
I agree that he has done some really great things, but the privilege that tends to practically drip from quite a few of his columns just pisses me off way too often. I know it’s problematic to have more of a problem with LGBT* people acting like this, but for some reason, I find it to be more hurtful than ignorance coming from clueless non-LGBT* people. Like …like they should just know better, you know?
Rutee:
I agree so much. Not gonna lie, I kind of tend to identify as a brony, but there are way too many brony assholes in this fandom. Considering the premise of the show, it becomes painfully ironic.
Seriously, wishing death on MLP-gijinka cosplayers who aren’t thin and conventionally attractive, this stupid fucking “Ew, gay!” meme (which SERIOUSLY needs to die), how way too many “bronies” insist that the show is so super manly (it isn’t manly at all, and that’s preciely the point Faust tried to make – shows for girls don’t have to be stupid and boring) and how they try to co-opt the toys… yeah, I have a lot of feelings about bronies.
Yea I was actually thinking about this when I read it. There’s a difference between “I don’t tend to find the bodies of trans women attractive” and “I am repulsed by the fact that trans women used to be men.”
(Maybe I’m not as brushed up on my trans activism, but isn’t the whole “used to be” x gender thing actually really offensive? I’ve been under the impression that a woman is a woman if she identifies as such regardless of sex organs and/or surgery? Because my gut response was “She was always a woman. Don’t be a dick”)
I find the whole “the very idea of such-and-such turns me off!” When the idea doesn’t effect anyone and you wouldn’t know it if you weren’t told to be the kind of things that douchebags say.
I am genuinely curious as to how anyone could convince themselves that My Little Pony is super manly. I know why they’d want to (sigh), but the mental gymnastics that doing so must involve seem exhausting.
@kirby- Have an chocolate and orange flavored internet, sir. You deserve it.
The “used to be x” thing varies across trans people as far as I can tell. Generally the least offensive thing to do is to assume that a trans person was always the gender they currently identify as and refer to their past as such (i.e. using their current pronouns for the period before transition, saying they “used to present as x” instead of “used to be x”.etc.) There are some individual trans people who don’t feel that way though. I think it’s also in part a generational thing; it’s more common to see people who transitioned a while ago say things like “when I used to be a man/woman” and use terms like “male/female bodied” instead of “male/female assigned” and such.
And yeah, that’s pretty much what I was thinking– if it’s the idea that’s squicking him out, an idea that doesn’t really affect his initial attraction, then he should probably think about it more. I have never liked the idea that you can’t criticize your own attractions. I know there’s some problems with doing it because then you open up the “why can’t gay people learn to become straight” can of worms. But for example, I used to not be attracted to fat people at all, and then I learned about fat positivity and started to interrogate my reactions to fat bodies, and gradually over time my tastes changed. Obviously you can’t demand of any person that they change their attractions, but it’s not impossible for a person to embark on a project of broadening their desires and getting rid of certain hang-ups.
I don’t get it, either, CassandraSays. I think it’s because of the “things aimed at boys can appeal to everyone, things aimed at girls can only ever appeal to girls and has to be ridiculed by guys” double standard… even though it’s exactly what Lauren Faust tried to subvert.
Frankly, the denial some bronies indulge in is laughable. They just have a real problem with liking a show that is made for little girls – after all, if it’s for little girls it HAS to be absolutely shitty and boring, right? Because girls are stupid, duh. If it has interesting characters and conflict, it just has to be for guys.
Yeah, it’s ridiculous.