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douchebaggery misogyny rapey reddit that's not funny!

“Men run faster than women.” “Hence rape.” Or, Reddit in a nutshell.

Here’s a little exchange from Reddit that I found on ShitRedditSays that basically sums up everything that’s less-than-charming about the site.  We start off with a blanket statement of male superiority, followed by an enthusiastically upvoted rape joke, and then we get massive downvoting and a “fuck you” to someone who’s challenging the blanket statement. (If you follow the link you’ll see that Butch_Magnus isn’t the only one jumping on piv0t.)

 

The context: This is from the Pics subreddit; they’re discussing a “sexist treadmill” with a control panel that looks like this:

 

 

 

 

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Jules
Jules
8 years ago

Oh for fucks sake. Ew.

KathleenB
KathleenB
8 years ago

And yet again, the stupid. It burns. Could they at least come up with something interesting or thought-provoking?

2-D Man
2-D Man
8 years ago

That control panel makes sense. It’s harder to run in a dress than in the buff.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

The abundance of MRAs, the rape jokes, the child porn…Reddit seems like such a lovely place.

Lauralot
Lauralot
8 years ago

Well isn’t this lovely and normal.

Gag.

red_locker
8 years ago

“That control panel makes sense. It’s harder to run in a dress than in the buff.”

Can we please focus on this joke instead of the reddit thread, please? At least it’s actually funny.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

That picture baffled me until I read the other comments: the treadmill uses the buttons for you to indicate your sex during setup.

As for the rest, hell, why not make a rape joke?

Oh, maybe because it’ll send actual survivors (rape is a thing that happens, newsflash) into thoughts like “I didn’t get the chance to run…” and is that really worth it for your dumb ass joke?

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

Okay, to be honest I think that “hence rape” comment could be darkly hilarious in the right context and coming from the right person. But Reddit isn’t and it didn’t.

I personally love that kind of fucked-up bitter sarcastic humor when you know that you’re on the same page as the person telling the joke; if this comment were meant as a critique of evopsych and its ridiculous concept of men as rapacious barely-human sex fiends, and rape as merely old-school caveman sex, then I’d be totally down with it.

red_locker
8 years ago

“This actually isn’t even that bad by Reddit-misogyny standards. I posted it mainly because of how predictably Redditish it is. Oh, here comes the inevitable rape joke, right on schedule. And of course the guy who suggests that men are the best at everything gets piled on.

Just another day on Reddit!”

I knew there was a reason I can’t browse the place for more than 2 minutes, if that.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

“That control panel makes sense. It’s harder to run in a dress than in the buff.”

Can we please focus on this joke instead of the reddit thread, please? At least it’s actually funny.

Can “in the buff” include some supportive undergarments? I appreciate those greatly.

kladle
kladle
8 years ago

@ crumbelievable

I have about five or so sites blocked on my browser under the heading “TERRIBLE NERDS” and Reddit is one of them. If I go on there I make myself so upset that I can’t really function. And I’m not just talking about the wacky subreddits, either, I’m talking about really mundane subreddits (like this one) about games or cooking or cat pictures or whatever. Reddit is a minefield filled with rape jokes and racist slurs and some of the most morally suspect people I’ve seen outside of 4chan.

Funnily (“funnily”) enough, most of the nerdy women I know from offline tend to avoid Reddit like the plague, and correspondingly, a lot of the nerdy straight white men I know seem to be totally oblivious about why Reddit would be avoidance-worthy. I actually got into a really nasty fight with a friend about Reddit because he was taking the “It’s free speech and therefore you can’t even take a moral stance against it because that makes you a censor, and also there is nothing morally wrong about Reddit’s total lack of giving-a-shit about the nasty climate on the site” position… after I showed him that beatingupwomen subreddit. This was from a dude who claimed he was a feminist ally, btw.

red_locker
8 years ago

“Can “in the buff” include some supportive undergarments? I appreciate those greatly.”

Depends.

…Hold on, are there any Nude gyms, like they have nude beaches, or would that be deadly due to the sweat and stuff? (Sexy, yes…deadly and unhygenic, probably)

Lauralot
Lauralot
8 years ago

You’d definitely have to wipe down the equipment thoroughly before you use it at a nude gym.

I wonder if nudist camps have gyms.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

I have about five or so sites blocked on my browser under the heading “TERRIBLE NERDS” and Reddit is one of them.

I’m really curious what the others are.

(It seems like you’d need a whitelist not a blacklist sometimes to get away from this…)

4chan, Fark, YouTube comments, and basically any non-pony-related gaming site seem to qualify.

Ashley Pariseau
8 years ago

Hmm. My mom has outran *and* beat the shit out of an attempted rapist.

2-D Man
2-D Man
8 years ago

Can “in the buff” include some supportive undergarments? I appreciate those greatly.

There will be no supportive undergarments! You must run in pain!

Now if you’ll excuse me, it’s time to go jogging.

Xanthe
Xanthe
8 years ago

It’s fairly standard for the treadmill to ask for sex and weight to work out how much energy you’re burning during a session (presumably what is “sexist” is setting average parameters for women such as greater endurance at a lower rate of work; the variance between individual women would surely often exceed the average difference between women and men).

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

4chan, Fark, YouTube comments, and basically any non-pony-related gaming site seem to qualify.

Objection; Bronies completely and totally live up to the ‘bro’. Also they think they’re the bright center of the pony universe, but arrogance isn’t the main problem in this context.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

Xanthe: might the sex thing be because men on average have more of their body mass consist of muscle than women do? That could affect the calorie count.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Seriously? Even the pony sites aren’t safe?!?!

I feel betrayed by the entire world now.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

Now if you’ll excuse me, it’s time to go jogging.

Everyone you run towards will think you’re scolding them…

kladle
kladle
8 years ago

@Holly

I mostly block sites that I have a personal problem with getting caught up in. I am sort of a “rubbernecker” I guess and find it very hard to pull myself away from reading all sorts of terrible things for hours and making myself feel increasingly worse. So I started to block some of the worst culprits. (This is why Manboobz is great for me, because David reads all the terrible MRA/PUA stuff so I don’t have to.)

What’s on the list right now is:
Reddit (already explained)
The Something Awful forums (MRA-style misogyny/”edgy” people/terrible political opinions)
4chan & Encyclopedia Dramatica (pretty obvious)
Metafilter (I wavered on blocking them for the longest time, because they are actually pretty good about smacking down the worst of it, but there are a few people there who are clueless as bricks and hijack every post with “That Uncle We All Avoid”-style rants)

Fark is exactly the type of site I would have to block, but fortunately I’ve never spent too much time there.

Sometimes I consider blocking all of Tumblr because I always end up clicking links and SURPRISE! a huge graphic picture of self-injury. And the social justice arguments on there end up giving me headaches, because there are a lot of 13-year-olds competing in the Oppression Olympics (“You’re privileged!” “No, you are!”) and people arguing if you use the pronoun “zie” instead of “ze” genderqueer people will just fall over and die en masse from being triggered. I have to stay away from the wacky trans stuff on Tumblr in particular for my mental health because I have a lot of personal gender issues and it just sends me up the wall.

I have another list called “AWFUL PEOPLE” which only has one blog on it so far, a notorious anti-trans blogger who I’m not going to mention because she’s like Beetlejuice and will show up and harass people if you mention her name. I spent way too much time on her site because I thought she was genuinely concerned about feminism and just taking things too far, and I spent way too long being charitable until I got to this post where she said she was basically writing a paper for a relative or something. I have no idea why it was THAT that sealed the deal and not any of the other 10,000 terrible things she’s done, but I was like, “fuck this”, and blocked her forever.

Joanna
8 years ago

“My mom has outran *and* beat the shit out of an attempted rapist.”

I’m waiting for NWO to pipe in here:
What if he was trying to tell her something important? herp derp
Wasn’t it misandrist that this woman assumed he was trying to rape her? herpa derpa derp
Where’s this man’s compensation for being beaten by a woman? (not enough herp derps in the world)

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Kladle – Thanks for your list, and complete agreement. (Especially about Something Awful, which sometimes hosts some really interesting and talented people and then completely drowns them out in a sea of “lol rape.”)

Tumblr… frankly, I kinda like that it’s got people who will call each other out on trans and other issues. There’s no question that it gets a little ridiculous, but I prefer that times a billion to people who just speak thoughtlessly and accuse you of being “sensitive and PC” if it bothers you.

kladle
kladle
8 years ago

Yeah, that’s why I keep returning back to it, because there is some really good stuff there by some really solid people. There are a couple of trans and feminist tumblrs that I visit regularly because they seem to “get it”, I guess. And I do appreciate it when people get called out on being a ‘phobe of any sort– that’s the good thing about having a big community of people who care about this sort of thing. I just have a hard time dealing with certain kinds of debates. I’m having trouble articulating just what bothers me.

I suppose an example is this: there’s this ongoing fight between asexual people and a certain segment of queer people on Tumblr that I ran into while I was browsing the Queer Secrets blog (which is like Post Secret but about stuff regarding sexual and gender minorities). I ran into it because there is a small contingent of people who object to Queer Secrets posting secrets about asexuality or aromantic stuff or whatever. Their argument is roughly that the asexual community is appropriating the “queer” label because asexuals as a group don’t have any historical claim for “taking back” the word “queer”, and that while homo or biromantic asexuals and trans asexuals may fit under the queer label, heteroromantic asexuals are not queer because they don’t experience the relevant sort of oppression or alienation from greater society that would mark them as queer. There was also a blog called “Ace Slut Shamers” (I believe) that spent a lot of time calling out asexuals for being sex-negative.

Now I would probably agree that there is something problematic about including asexuality within the queer label and that some asexual activism has problems with repeating negative tropes about sexuality. But the way this was handled really rubbed me the wrong way because there were a number of the critics (even aces themselves) who claimed that asexuals experience 0 oppression whatsoever and that they’re never shamed for their lack of orientation, that a number of asexually-identified people are actually lying about their orientation because they post pictures of attractive people, and that asexuals are slut-shaming every time they state that they complain about having to hear about sex all the time or if they’re personally sex-averse or whatever. And there were a number of people on the ace side of things who kind of dropped the ball by claiming that LGBTs are the privileged ones, that any critique of dialogue in the asexual community is automatically erasive, and that if an LGBT center gets co-opted by a bunch of heteroromantic aces there’s nothing problematic about that whatsoever, etc. I just felt that everyone was pretty much missing the point and ignoring the context involved and so on and so on. It seemed like people were using social justice dialogue merely to rationalize what they already thought about the other side and it makes me totally @_@ when that happens.

There was also a really angry post going around about how bisexual erasure doesn’t actually exist, because supposedly arguments about how bisexuals can experience discrimination within the lesbian/gay community assume that homosexuals have the same sort of privilege as heterosexuals. And so bisexuals/pansexuals are actually being homophobic and privilege-denying if they try to articulate what’s similar between discrimination from heteros and from gays. It would be a fair point except for the fact that 1. any articulate discussion of bisexual issues acknowledges that there’s a difference there, and that bis can sometimes benefit from certain privileges afforded to heterosexuals and 2. just because a monosexual privilege list or whatever is problematic it doesn’t mean that bisexual issues don’t exist! I mean, there was that Bisexual Invisibility report earlier this year that found that the Bs are worse off than the Gs and Ls on a number of health and economic measures.

I guess what I hate is when people use critical language to shore up their own privileges and implicit biases rather than examining them & that’s what I see a lot on Tumblr. I mean, nobody’s perfect, but it makes me want to barf sometimes.

Magnesium
Magnesium
8 years ago

Ah, Reddit, where you get to vote on facts.

So are there any Reddit-like sites that aren’t full of assholes? Or at least the assholes are a minority?

Lauralot
Lauralot
8 years ago

Asexuals are never shamed? Excuse me?

Have these people ever heard of Dan Savage?

Xanthe
Xanthe
8 years ago

kladle, *applause*

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Kladle – Okay, and I see what you mean and that’s complete fuckery, and it’s fuckery from people who would explain to me in outraged voices like I just said a horrible slur why calling it “fuckery” is oppressive.

Even so, I still prefer places that play Queer Identity Tug-O-War with places that play Queer Identity Doesn’t Exist. Low standards, I know.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

Yick. I got into it briefly on the whole “asexuals are homophobic against LGBTs if they identify as queer, gtfo our precious exclusive acronym!” thing on another blog a while ago. Fucking hell that was annoying — having the gay man I was arguing with act as gatekeeper for the whole queer community was gaddamn obnoxious, too. He also insisted on referring to asexuals as “heterosexuals” which had me head-desking pretty good. -_-

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I would love to know the logic for referring to asexuals as hetero.

Lauralot
Lauralot
8 years ago

I do refer to myself as queer; I never realized that bothered anyone.

Shora
8 years ago

Lauralot; out of curiosity, what about dan savage do you find particularly bad when it comes to asexuality?

I like Dan Savage a lot, even though I often have problems with some of the things he says. I haven’t really picked up on anything really shaming though. Of course, I’m a hypersexed slut so I probably wouldn’t be the most, erm, sensitive to such things ^_^;;

Lauralot
Lauralot
8 years ago

He has said asexuals are repressed, “fighting for the right to do nothing,” and that we’re trying to snare sexual people into sexless relationships. He also told us that we have to let people know we’re asexual no later than the second date, so that our poor helpless dates know what they’re getting into.

Lauralot
Lauralot
8 years ago

Also, people willing to date asexuals are apparently “fags or fools.”

Shora
8 years ago

He has said asexuals are repressed, “fighting for the right to do nothing,” and that we’re trying to snare sexual people into sexless relationships.

Yea okay, that’s not right. He can be a real asshole sometimes >.<

He also told us that we have to let people know we’re asexual no later than the second date, so that our poor helpless dates know what they’re getting into.

See, this… I don’t know. Asexuality, or even a pretty low sex drive, is a pretty serious dealbreaker for me and something I would really appreciate up front. Is that shaming?

Lauralot
Lauralot
8 years ago

No, I don’t find it shaming to say that asexuals should be open about their orientation. However, since Dan Savage knows nothing about asexuals in general, he also hasn’t considered that maybe asexuals are seeking out partners who aren’t into sex, maybe they’re willing to have sex for their partner, maybe they mentioned their sexuality before they even started dating, etc. Basically, I object to someone who isn’t of X orientation telling people of X orientation how they’re required to behave, especially when the person doing the ordering is so ignorant about the people he’s bossing around.

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

Seriously? Even the pony sites aren’t safe?!?!

look up clopfic. Or don’t, I guess. It’s not even the fic, it’s the BS Rationalizations that get to me.

Also, it isn’t really up for debate that the oppressions experienced by bi and gay people are different, and that some of it has come from each other. Seriously, basic fucking shit.

Shora
8 years ago

That makes perfect sense to me.

Mandolin
Mandolin
8 years ago

“Is that shaming?”

Do, like, a search on Dan Savage and asexuality and see what turns up. It’s shaming the way he says it. You know all the nuance and subtlety he has when he’s discussing the ethics of, e.g., poly relationships? None of that.

He can also be very bad about trans people and fat people. I have to be careful about his column because it can send me into some nasty spirals. Also, at one point on his podcast he told a guy who’d been fucking his wife during her sleep when she specifically did not consent to it that he was *not* a rapist and I was just like “oh fuck you.”

I still read occasionally because he does some good stuff, but. Man, he can also be a shit.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

I would love to know the logic for referring to asexuals as hetero.

As far as I could tell, it was because asexuals don’t usually have homosexual sex. Hence they must be heterosexual. Hence all my headdesking. At one point I resorted to yelling that “THE ASEXUAL WOMEN I KNOW DON’T WANT TO FUCK MEN. THEY ARE NOT HETEROSEXUAL.” in all caps but it made nary a dent. :p

And yeah, I identify as “queer” too, somewhat for lack of a better term — whether or not I am “naturally” asexual, or if it’s just attributable to the combination of clinical depression and anti-depressants I’ve been regularly swapping between since hitting puberty, I have been functionally asexual my entire life and haven’t had the chance to establish any sexuality I might secretly have, and the heterosexual narrative does not describe me, so in my mind that fucking counts.

kladle
kladle
8 years ago

@ Lauralot

I know I think it’s much more important for LGBs and asexuals to be allies, all being sexual minorities and sharing common interests because of that. As for whether asexuals are “queer”; it doesn’t personally bother me if an asexual refers to themselves as “queer” so long as they understand the historical baggage that comes along with the label & the reclaiming thing. The vast majority of asexuals I’ve seen online tend to have a good sense of the political implications and are operating under the more inclusive sense of “queer” anyway i.e. “queering sexuality” or “queering gender” or whatever. The one self-identified asexual person I’ve met offline was pretty gender-nonconforming (which is not uncommon as far as I can tell) and nobody had a problem with him attending our college’s LGBT group.

I can see why some people have issues with asexuals being under the queer umbrella, but if you have a problem with it, you have to be really careful in order to critique things responsibly… otherwise you end up being a huge doofus like the people I was talking about or like Bagelsan’s asexual=heterosexual guy. (I don’t even know how you could come up with that one.)

Lauralot
Lauralot
8 years ago

Dan Savage’s exact words on asexuality disclosure:

…I’ll probably be accused of asexophobia for suggesting that asexuals who date “sexual people” are obligated to disclose their asexuality, preferably on the first date and certainly no later than the third date.

Asexuals may have the same emotional needs as anyone else, but most of us sexuals—heterosexuals, homosexuals, bisexuals—expect to have our emotional and sexual needs met in our “intimate romantic relationships,” thanks, and we’re going to want to know if that’s not in the cards before we get involved, not after.

Someone who is incapable of meeting a sexual’s needs has no business dating a sexual in the first place, if you ask me. At the very least, asexuality must be disclosed.

And I’m still trying to wrap my head around this: “Figuring out how to flirt, to be intimate, or to be monogamous in nonsexual relationships can be challenging…”

Um…since monogamy is understood to mean sexual exclusivity—you don’t fuck other people—I’m not sure how you define monogamy in a sexless relationship. Does your asexual partner promise not to not fuck other people?

The rest can be read here: http://www.thecoast.ca/halifax/the-truth-about-asexuality/Content?oid=1263048

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

See, this… I don’t know. Asexuality, or even a pretty low sex drive, is a pretty serious dealbreaker for me and something I would really appreciate up front.

Don’t worry, I’m pretty sure most asexual people have put some thought into this quandary, too. ;p

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

Does your asexual partner promise not to not fuck other people?

No, we’d promise to fuck absolutely everybody except you, duh!

ozymandias42
8 years ago

Dan Savage is one of those people where, on one hand, I hate hate HATE so much of what he says… and on the other hand he does a lot of good and he’s one of the most sex-positive advice columnists out there. I suppose there’s not much to do except wish that Captain Awkward was nationally syndicated.

I agree about the Tumblr feminists. :/ Man, I certainly prefer us social-justice-types, but I think a lot of the Social Justice League has problems with concepts like “people can say something fucked up and still not be THE WORST PERSON EVER” and “shit is complicated, yo.”

Also, I’m allergic to terminology arguments. I don’t care whether we call asexuals queer or not, as long as we are all against asexual erasure and pathologization.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

…Though considering how many children I haven’t fucked, as an asexual, does that make me a pedophile? Also I’ve never fucked any family members. Or animals. …Dammit, asexuals are total pervs, you guys! O_O

Mandolin
Mandolin
8 years ago

I think a lot of the Social Justice League has problems with concepts like “people can say something fucked up and still not be THE WORST PERSON EVER”

Oh, so much that.

Although I think it’s partially an “all-human” rather than just “SJL” thing.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

C’mon, every time an asexual doesn’t fuck someone or somewhere, they are clearly flaunting their sexuality! Rubbing it right in the faces of the unsuspecting public!

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