Well, here’s a new twist. We all know, from reading the endless tirades on the subject scattered all over the manosphere, that women are evil, selfish and ungrateful creatures whose primary goal in life is to leech off of men and make them miserable.
In a recent post titled Playing Career Woman, manosphere blogger Dalrock takes on some of the most evil and selfish ladies of the whole lot of them: upper middle class ladies who insist on going to college and getting jobs, then later leave the workforce to raise their children.
You might think that these ladies would deserve some props from traditional-minded manosphere dudes for supporting themselves instead of leeching off of men during their twenties, then settling into a more traditional housewifely role once they have children.
Oh, but you don’t realize just how evil and disruptive and oppressive their phony careers are to the men of the world. After all, these aren’t women who need to work to support themselves. No, according to Dalrock, these are “women who use their education and career as a way to check off the box to prove their feminist credentials before settling down into an entirely traditional role.”
According to Escoffier, a commenter on Dalrock’s site whom he quotes with approval, in the good old pre-feminist days:
Women who pursued careers (apart from traditional female roles such as teaching … ) were considered at best sort of harmlessly odd … but we know that family life is superior and more important.
Then came feminism:
Now it’s “You MUST do this for own sake, not to do it is to not realize your potential.” …
The way the [upper middle class] has “solved” this problem is to send girls to college, let them launch their careers–whether in soggy girly stuff like PR or crunchy stuff like business and law–and then they marry late (~30), have kids a few years later and drop out of working at least until the kids are grown.
This answers a couple of needs, not least the need for two incomes to accumulate assets so that the couple can eventually buy into a UMC school district.
Oh, but these women aren’t really earning money because they need it to, you know, pay bills and shit:
[T]he real importance of this solution is to her psyche. Getting the education and career are a way of telegraphing “I am a complete person, not some drone like June Cleaver. I am just as smart and capable as any man. In my altruistic concern for my children, I choose not to use my talent in the marketplace but to devote myself to them.” In other words, she needs that education and early career to mark her as better than a mere housewife, even though she will eventually choose to become a housewife.
According to Dalrock, such women are far more evil than the feminist women who get jobs and stick with them. (Emphasis added.)
Men and women who work hard to support themselves understand that they are in it for the duration. There is a determined realism to them. … These aren’t the women we are talking about. The women Escoffier described see having a career as a badge of status to be collected on their way to their ultimate goal of stay at home housewife. They aren’t really career women, they are playing career woman much the way that Marie Antoinette played peasant and Zoolander’s character played coal miner.
In the comments, someone calling himself Carnivore explains just how unfair this all is to the poor innocent working men of the world:
When men get a degree or go through a vocational program and then land a job, they’ve normally got 40+ years to contribute to increasing the wealth of society. Women “playing” career damage society:
1. They displace men for positions in college or vocational school.
2. Upon landing a job, they displace other men for the job position.
3. The increase in the labor pool drives down wages (supply & demand).
4. While in the labor pool, women are less effective and less productive than men.
5. Because they are in the labor pool and cannot compete with men, women support labor laws to enforce “equality” which burden businesses and can cause men to get fired due to some infringement or just to meet quotas.
6. When they leave the labor pool after becoming bored, there is now a hole than can be difficult to fill because the men who would normally fill it have been displaced for all the reasons above.
Carnivore places part of the blame on the feminism-infected parents who taught these women the wrong things:
Women do NOT know what they want. They have to be guided. Most parents have so bought into feminism that they don’t see any other way. It’s a riot – or sad – talking to parents when they go into all the detail about choosing a college, going on campus visits, making sure she gets into the best school, etc., etc. You would think these parents would spend their time and energy on prepping their daughters for the most important life decision – choosing a man for marriage, how to make a husband happy and how to raise healthy children.
The commenter called Ray takes it one step further:
i was in the workplaces during feminism 1.0, and it had nothing to do with fairness, equity, egalitarianism, or any other positive attribute
in fact, it was a slaughter, resulting in the vast disenfranchisement and destruction of millions of american men — there were dozens of ways men could be hassled, RIFd, and forced from employment, and they were (all to chants of Equality and Empowerment)
this resulted in the massive unemployment of the very men needed to create, invent, and revitalize the culture. and to be fathers to sons . …
no female should be employed, or educated, if it means a qualified male must be excluded
Women, stop leeching off men by paying your own way!
NOTE: This post contains SARCASM.
I know (though not well) a het married couple who spent a great deal of time trying to conceive, and when that proved impossible, a great deal of time trying to adopt. But of course, life goes on when you’re waiting for a baby, and the woman in the pair got a great job. Not too long later, maybe a couple of weeks, they get a phone call – an expectant biological mother chose their file. Less than a week after that, they took their gorgeous little boy home.
I suppose in Brandon world they should have just said “naaaaw, we don’t need your baby right now” because she wouldn’t have been working long enough to get maternal leave. I don’t think he was eligible for any sort of paternal leave (contract work I think – like I said, I don’t know them well) but in any case they had already decided that she was going to stay home with their baby, because that’s what worked for their family.
Sometimes the smushy stuff like affection and teamwork and the desire to hold your little baby are more important than the bare-bones financials of it all.
Anyway he’s just a beautiful little guy, and they’re very happy.
I think classics is more of a flaky career.
Can you imagine though? It would be like having a 4-day gestation period. “You’re going to be parents! Good luck gathering all the essentials! Oh, you just got a great job? Trololololol, life has other plans.”
What’s great about the soggy/crunchy lists people are trying to make is that they highlight a perfect example of how dumb the gender-role binary is insofar as it is completely incapable of coping with any “bit of column A, bit of column B” situation. What column does, say, a math teacher fit in? They’re doing math, which is CRUNCHY, but they’re teaching, which is SOGGY! What about someone who runs a museum (business/art!) or a neurolinguistics researcher (STEM/languages!) or the folks behind Pandora (programming/music!)? It’s almost like life is way too complicated (and interesting) to be divided up neatly into “things for guys” and “things for girls.”
And, obviously, that’s not getting into the total stupidity of assuming that certain fields are inherently more manly/girly in the first place, but even if we accepted the dumb, dumb premise that law is “crunchy” and PR is “soggy,” what does that make someone who does PR for a law firm? Croggy? Sunchy?
So, my revised list for the real world, instead of the silly one inside MRAs’ heads:
CROGGY:
Basically everything.
🙂
And while, you know, to each their own, I have to say that in my opinion staying home with your child, working while your partner stays home with the child, and both partners working while the child is being watched by a caretaker (as well as just not having a child, of course) all can be fine choices. Choosing either the second or third (or having that be the outcome, regardless of actual unfettered choice) shouldn’t be dismissed as being substantially the same as being an aunt.
Acquaintances of mine have an arrangement where he works Mon-Wed, she works Wed-Fri, and on Wednesdays the littlies go to playgroup. They can manage this way because they run a business, which also means the kids can come to work with them, if necessary.
This is an excellent point, which I see that Brandon totally ignored.
But yes, you cannot possibly plan in advance for something like that, and in many ways it’s even harder to deal with if your seemingly physically perfect child turns out to have a mental impairment such as autism, because this often doesn’t reveal itself for some time – possibly not for years. And when that happens, your child may need specialist care (which is expensive), or they may inescapably need far greater attention from at least one of the parents – and there won’t be a damn thing you can do about it.
Which is why those of us who live in the real world, who’ve either had direct experience of these issues or know people who have, realize that Brandon’s prescriptive “one size should fit all” model is not just unworkable but fundamentally ridiculous.
Incidentally, I don’t feel the least bit oppressed by my wife having a proper career – especially not now that it’s paying real dividends.
I’ve wanted to be a full-time writer for as long as I can remember, but this isn’t exactly easy to arrange, especially not when you have to earn enough each month to cover the mortgage, food, bills and other associated costs (not least child-rearing expenses).
So my wife and I planned a long-term strategy: the early childcare would be split between her and a childminder (her income pretty much exactly covered the costs of the childminder, but meant that she didn’t need to abandon her career), and then when I had enough of a reputation to risk going freelance, she resumed her full-time career and became the majority earner, whereas I now combine writing with childcare. Which, because the kids are now at school, gives me nearly six hours a day in a completely empty house – while still enjoying all the pleasures of family life, long-term relationships, etc.
You’re welcome to tell me that we’re doing it all wrong and that we’d have been much happier if she’d simply become a full-time SAHM for the last decade, but some people are a bit sensitive to the sound of derisive laughter, so I thought I should probably warn you in advance.
So, around 30% of married women with children under the age of 18 are not in the workforce, according to the US Census Bureau. That means that 70% of those women are working.
Also,
What bizarro world is this idiot from? Men lost the right to vote due to feminism? Millions of them were slaughtered?
“Women do NOT know what they want. They have to be guided. Most parents have so bought into feminism that they don’t see any other way.”
Huh. My parents were always like, “Do what makes you happy.” They didn’t push me into any career or any man’s arms. So everything in life so far was really my decision. And I was never thinking “Look at me! I’m in college! Take that men!”. Honestly, I never thought about gender in that way until I came across this blog lol. But then again, I’ve never in real life come across men so upset about women before. Or vice versa. I must live in an alternate dimension where men and women get along just fine.
So, the real world then?
“So, the real world then?”
The internet must a wormhole to a dimension where men have few human rights =o
Ozy, you know this already but… http://www.vintaga.co.uk/Bullet-Bras/c103/index.html
There are sites that offer similar bras cheaper Stateside (being trendy in the UK is way too rich for my blood), but im on my phone so I couldn’t find th site I liked the most. You know, just in case we want to derail the Brandon show. We can talk about retro fashion while a lonely and bitter old age creeps up on Brandon. Hopefully Ashley’s first kid’s stepdad will be less of a prick.
2 quicky observations:
One: DKM and Brandon although apparently different in their rhetoric share one important similarity: both engage in complete magical thinking in believing that their view of what “should” be will occur due to the INVISIBLE forces of whatever (nature, economics, dolls, etc.). They predict futures which are in apparent contradiction (Sweet Old Fashioned Girls vs. Corporate Clone Contractural Partnerships) but which share the feature of imposing their preferred lifestyle on EVERYBODY without them actually having to do anything to achieve it.
It’s really…amazing when you consider it.
Two: After I was lucky enough to be hired in 1993, I learned that there were 180 viable candidates for the tenure track position–that meant more applied but didn’t meet the minimum qualifications (probably had degrees in other sub-fields of English, or were ABD). One hundred eighty. Given that about 50% of graduates in English then were women, that means that a good percentage of those 180 were women.
So a woman taking a job is not only displacing MEN but WOMEN–but do those trollz ever think of that? No, apparently not. And while I only know academic hiring trends (i.e. white men majority, especially in some displines, higher levels, and admin; white women next; men of color next, and at the very lowest percentage, women of color), I’d say that in a whole lotta jobs these days if a woman is hired, there are other women in the pipeline who are not hired.
But somehow I doubt that will make the trollz any happier.
Would not have been able to procreate for at least another 5 years if our esteemed leader, Stephen Harper, hadn’t changed the EI program to allow self-employed people to buy in.
I bought in and am now eligible for maternity leave benefits. Granted, it’s only 55% of your income, but it’s a hell of a lot better than nothing at all. If I’d waited to save up an equivalent sum of money I’d have had to wait to get pregnant until I was about 38.
And before Brandon calls me a moocher, I will be paying into EI for the rest of my life now, so unless I decide to have more than 5 children I will pay those benefits back many times over before I retire.
Bee: The Late Great Edward R. Murrow. That was aired on Thanksgiving Day. A great piece of work.
One: DKM and Brandon although apparently different in their rhetoric share one important similarity: both engage in complete magical thinking in believing that their view of what “should” be will occur due to the INVISIBLE forces of whatever (nature, economics, dolls, etc.). They predict futures which are in apparent contradiction (Sweet Old Fashioned Girls vs. Corporate Clone Contractural Partnerships) but which share the feature of imposing their preferred lifestyle on EVERYBODY without them actually having to do anything to achieve it.
It’s really…amazing when you consider it.
NWO shares that thing too… he seems to think that WITHOUT a government (which he’d need to ban abortion, gay marriage, anal sex, etc etc etc). he’d still get his utopia because PEOPLE WOULD JUST STOP DOING IT (which is odd because he also believes in the evil slutty greedy nature of women, so why would we stop being evil with NO restrictions on us? o_O )
That’s why all of them can say this stuff so adorably naively without blinking an eye xD They believe that somehow, people will just WANT to live the way THEY WANT US TO without any force needing to be applied. Kinda like how MRAL believes that if you evacuated and nuked Mecca, and then just banned Islam, it’d be a peaceful way to solve his problem with Islam, because everybody would just STOP believing in it. MRAL reacted with total honest shock when ppl accused him of advocating genocide, thought police, etc b/c in his world, banning and eliminating Islam would require NO FORCE at all, ppl would just stop once told (and once their holy places are removed).
I find their thinking so adorable in it’s wide-eyed child naivetee xD
Wetherby: You’re welcome to tell me that we’re doing it all wrong and that we’d have been much happier if she’d simply become a full-time SAHM for the last decade, but some people are a bit sensitive to the sound of derisive laughter, so I thought I should probably warn you in advance.
No… you are doing it all wrong because you are not both working 40 hours a week. One of you being stay-at-home is undermining the entire Brandon System of childrearing.
Kristin: Wait until Meller sees that. A gov’t program that helps people,and is solvent, and is seen as a tax worth paying…. IMPOSSIBLE!!!!
You can’t oppose government unless it’s never ever done anything right!
For instance – You didn’t buy in in gold did you, Kristin? See. See! And they make people without children pay for it by the use of evil bees, don’t they? See!
I hate to break it to him, but I put in a bare minimum of 40 hours a week, especially when I’ve got a lot of deadlines. But I agree that this is fundamentally wrong in Brandon’s eyes, and I’m very sorry and won’t do it again.
For invoking Cantor, you win one internet!
Oh wait, I thought you were invoking Cantor. I will:
The aspiring stay-at-home parent gets a job as a nanny. Since his/her family now needs child care, they hire a nanny from another family with an aspiring stay-at-home parent. Since that parent now needs child care, his/her family hires a nanny from yet another family with an aspiring stay-at-home parent, and so on.
It’s turtles all the way down.
There is a part of me that thinks if you don’t have a pot to piss in then you shouldn’t reproduce. That part has contempt for the nine children families where there is no finical opportunity for higher education.
I say this because I know a home schooled family with nine daughters who have no idea what their children could do with their lives except that someone will marry them. It’s getting harsh for Father, the oldest is now 25 and none of them have been married off. These girls can cook, they can sew, they are the really the perfect stepford wives yet not one mra has come to claim them.
Nine daughters that go to church pretty much everyday, dress in a very modest manner and yet no one is knocking on their fathers door to ask for a date.
Having said that I’ve also had the pleasure to know children from low income and sometimes “even” single families who have excelled in life.
Brandon. Personally I paid my babies Daddy to say home. Not only did I save money they were actually raised by someone that loved them.