Well, here’s a new twist. We all know, from reading the endless tirades on the subject scattered all over the manosphere, that women are evil, selfish and ungrateful creatures whose primary goal in life is to leech off of men and make them miserable.
In a recent post titled Playing Career Woman, manosphere blogger Dalrock takes on some of the most evil and selfish ladies of the whole lot of them: upper middle class ladies who insist on going to college and getting jobs, then later leave the workforce to raise their children.
You might think that these ladies would deserve some props from traditional-minded manosphere dudes for supporting themselves instead of leeching off of men during their twenties, then settling into a more traditional housewifely role once they have children.
Oh, but you don’t realize just how evil and disruptive and oppressive their phony careers are to the men of the world. After all, these aren’t women who need to work to support themselves. No, according to Dalrock, these are “women who use their education and career as a way to check off the box to prove their feminist credentials before settling down into an entirely traditional role.”
According to Escoffier, a commenter on Dalrock’s site whom he quotes with approval, in the good old pre-feminist days:
Women who pursued careers (apart from traditional female roles such as teaching … ) were considered at best sort of harmlessly odd … but we know that family life is superior and more important.
Then came feminism:
Now it’s “You MUST do this for own sake, not to do it is to not realize your potential.” …
The way the [upper middle class] has “solved” this problem is to send girls to college, let them launch their careers–whether in soggy girly stuff like PR or crunchy stuff like business and law–and then they marry late (~30), have kids a few years later and drop out of working at least until the kids are grown.
This answers a couple of needs, not least the need for two incomes to accumulate assets so that the couple can eventually buy into a UMC school district.
Oh, but these women aren’t really earning money because they need it to, you know, pay bills and shit:
[T]he real importance of this solution is to her psyche. Getting the education and career are a way of telegraphing “I am a complete person, not some drone like June Cleaver. I am just as smart and capable as any man. In my altruistic concern for my children, I choose not to use my talent in the marketplace but to devote myself to them.” In other words, she needs that education and early career to mark her as better than a mere housewife, even though she will eventually choose to become a housewife.
According to Dalrock, such women are far more evil than the feminist women who get jobs and stick with them. (Emphasis added.)
Men and women who work hard to support themselves understand that they are in it for the duration. There is a determined realism to them. … These aren’t the women we are talking about. The women Escoffier described see having a career as a badge of status to be collected on their way to their ultimate goal of stay at home housewife. They aren’t really career women, they are playing career woman much the way that Marie Antoinette played peasant and Zoolander’s character played coal miner.
In the comments, someone calling himself Carnivore explains just how unfair this all is to the poor innocent working men of the world:
When men get a degree or go through a vocational program and then land a job, they’ve normally got 40+ years to contribute to increasing the wealth of society. Women “playing” career damage society:
1. They displace men for positions in college or vocational school.
2. Upon landing a job, they displace other men for the job position.
3. The increase in the labor pool drives down wages (supply & demand).
4. While in the labor pool, women are less effective and less productive than men.
5. Because they are in the labor pool and cannot compete with men, women support labor laws to enforce “equality” which burden businesses and can cause men to get fired due to some infringement or just to meet quotas.
6. When they leave the labor pool after becoming bored, there is now a hole than can be difficult to fill because the men who would normally fill it have been displaced for all the reasons above.
Carnivore places part of the blame on the feminism-infected parents who taught these women the wrong things:
Women do NOT know what they want. They have to be guided. Most parents have so bought into feminism that they don’t see any other way. It’s a riot – or sad – talking to parents when they go into all the detail about choosing a college, going on campus visits, making sure she gets into the best school, etc., etc. You would think these parents would spend their time and energy on prepping their daughters for the most important life decision – choosing a man for marriage, how to make a husband happy and how to raise healthy children.
The commenter called Ray takes it one step further:
i was in the workplaces during feminism 1.0, and it had nothing to do with fairness, equity, egalitarianism, or any other positive attribute
in fact, it was a slaughter, resulting in the vast disenfranchisement and destruction of millions of american men — there were dozens of ways men could be hassled, RIFd, and forced from employment, and they were (all to chants of Equality and Empowerment)
this resulted in the massive unemployment of the very men needed to create, invent, and revitalize the culture. and to be fathers to sons . …
no female should be employed, or educated, if it means a qualified male must be excluded
Women, stop leeching off men by paying your own way!
NOTE: This post contains SARCASM.
“So even if she answered me, I would think she is full of shit.”
This so perfectly encapsulates Brandon’s worldview. Why so hostile, dude? Why the bone-deep conviction that women are deceitful? You’re really very dysfunctional in terms of how you interact with other human beings, especially women.
@Cassandra: I don’t see it that way. I am skeptical about new people but once they gain my trust, they tend to have it unless they do something really heinous.
No where here do I see “and girl who doesn’t have sex, because that makes her a dirty slut”
On to more pressing questions:
Don’t you think it would be kind of groovy for women to have the same kind of good sexual experiences that you had without being shamed?
Why do you ignore, like, half of my questions?
How do you define femininity?
@Shora:
No.
There are so many questions, some are bound not to get answered.
The state of being feminine.
Brandon
Why, in response to this-“Don’t you think it would be kind of groovy for women to have the same kind of good sexual experiences that you had without being shamed?”, did you answer “No.”
Would you be so kind as to reply?
Best,
Jules
In short, yes.
That’s pretty fuckin’ flimsy. Right up there with “because I said so.”
So, again, if all women lie, how big a liar is Ashley?
Brandon
Why not?
That isn’t a definition, that is a tautology. I’d like an actual definition please.
Brandon, you are waffling. In this entire thread, you’ve said nothing of substance. Your answers, such as they are, play to sentiment and what I’d call frathouse popular culture, if I thought that any frat would have you. When challenged, you back off. In a more developed conscience, I’d have called your silence in response to my questions, and Shora’s, “guilt.” As it is, I just think you finally realized that you can’t front forever. You can try to defend your statements, if it’ll make you feel better, but I need to do research, and then I’ll be proctoring an exam from 3:30 to 6, so afk.
The state of being feminine.
On the season premier of ‘brandon doesnt understand things’: brandon says something that even by his standards is stupid and obtuse, thinks he is being clever.
Other way round for me: I start from a position of respect and trust, and it’s up to the other person to demonstrate that they don’t deserve either. And if they don’t – and in most cases they don’t – that’s obviously absolutely fine.
I honestly think that’s a more sensible way to go about things. Granted, you’ll get your fingers burned occasionally (in which case, as I’ve said, I’m pretty ruthless about terminating such relationships), but it means that the vast majority of relationships are conducted without the paranoia and suspicion that seems to be an inescapable by-product of the way that you seem to think is desirable.
Sorry, that was poorly worded – the last sentence should begin “And if they don’t demonstrate this -“
@Shora: Well, there is always Roissy’s take:
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/09/16/why-sluts-make-bad-wives/
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/08/26/quality-girl/
Which for the most part, I tend to agree.
“For the most part”? Which bits do you disagree with?
Not a biased source at all, Brandon.
@Sharcules: Apparently you don’t understand the concept of being difficult. As in I know what I was doing when I answered Shora’s question. I knew damn well that I was posting a non-answer. I don’t think it is clever. I think it is being difficult.
@Wetherby: I never said you can’t be civil with new people in your life. I don’t think it is paranoid to see it my way as well. I see newcomers in my social circle as neutral. They are neither good nor bad. While I might not trust/respect them, I am also not being hostile towards them or being disrespectful. I am just observing and waiting to see what kind of person they are.
@Hellkell: It is an opinion piece. He is allowed to be biased.
Yes, dear, but you certainly do like to rag on us when the sources don’t meet your strict and stringent standards.
/sarcasm
Brandon, I believe what I was asking you for (and nicely I might add, for I see no reason at the moment not to be nice) was what YOUR opinion was, not Roissey’s. I don’t care about Roissey’s.
And I’d love to know why it would be bad for women to have sexual variety, not bad for men that women have sexual variety.
I think all humans enjoy variety of all kinds. Food, books, music. Sex seems little different to me.
Brandon, you’re getting relationship advice from a guy who identifies sluts by how much forearm hair they have and whether they’ll let you snort coke off their ass. There’s opinion and then there’s WTF?
brandon, im sorry i didnt pick up on the subtle nuances of your childish attention seeking. ill go dust of my audubon guide to whiny self-righteous concern trolls and give it another go.
Brandon; Well, that first link is a doozy. The biggest glaring issue with that post is, of course, that it doesn’t show how the number of sexual partners of MEN correlate with divorce rates. You can’t really say that it’s terrible for a women to have multiple partners, but not men, if you don’t actually compare the two.
also, this?
Excuse me, mesmerize? If you think a women has to be “mesmerized” to stay faithful in a relationship, well. You’ve got a lot of issues.
Also, assuming this is true (it isn’t), a regender switcharound would be true for men and vaginas. So, WHY is it okay for men to sleep around, but not women? More specifically, WHY is it cool for YOU to sleep around, but not the women you date? Do you find that you are more of a “flight risk” because you are not mesmerized by Ashley’s pussy? If not, then why do you think that’s valid for women?
Oh and there’s this gem;
High testosterone causes people to cheat? Brandon, you’re a man. You have WAY highter testosterone then women? Do you find that you just cheat left, right and center?
(Also, fuckin hormones, how do they work?)
This doesn’t really have much to do with our conversation, but
Heaven forfend I want to sleep with some men, and not others. It must be all about game! It cannot possibly have anything to do with how much I’m attracted to someone, can it?
Fucking hell.
Bear in mind that Brandon only agrees with Roissy “for the most part”.
But I do think it’s important for him to spell out which parts he disagrees with, lest we make the disastrous mistake of assuming he agrees with all of it.
Excuse me, mesmerize? If you think a women has to be “mesmerized” to stay faithful in a relationship, well. You’ve got a lot of issues.
in all fairness, its not like theyre drawn to his sparkling wit and winning personality…
@Julie: Roissy’s opinion is pretty much my opinion. Minus the whole slutty women are masculine bits.
@Hellkell: And the entire idea of “sluttiness” is entirely opinion based. There are no objective, scientific studies done that says “You fucked X people, you aren’t a slut but you fucked X+1 then you are”.
And, Brandon, the entire concept of sluttiness is absurd, opinion or not.