Consider the plight of the poor, horny Man Going His Own Way. He may have convinced himself that women are icky monsters out to highjack his sperm and steal his money. He may have convinced himself we live in a femi-fascist gynocracy out to destroy men and civilization generally. Yet his disobedient penis can’t stop thinking about sex with these evil, filthy women.
And so he turns to his fellow MGTOWers to ask for help: what can I do, my brethren, to stop popping so many boners? Ed1974, a newbie on MGTOWforums.com, puts it this way in a plaintive recent post:
[M]ore than almost anything I want to be woman-free and contentment to live a woman-free life. For more or less all of my adult life I’ve played in to society’s demands that I have to have a woman, and preferably a pretty woman, in my life. I’ve done a lot of Internet dating and every friggin time I get involved with a woman I regret it. Either I just want to get some ass and the woman wants a lot more than that and makes a mess out of my life when I leave, or I end up spending way more money than I ever wanted to spend just to have her grace my life with her presence, or something else that fucks up my life. The bottom line is I sincerely want to live a life without the desire to have a woman in my life.
So Ed is taking steps to quell his desire:
1. I downloaded a firewall blocking all dating sites.
2. I’m going to read as many books on misandry that I can.
3. I’m going to take myself out of situations where I can get in trouble, such as bars.
4. I’m going to fill free time that I would normally spend out with some woman with something productive.
I also want to remember the bad times where I’ve had women who I’ve tried to get out of my life end up stalking me for months on end. And to be perfectly honest, I want to remember the time I got the clap from some skank. I also want to remember that I should be thankful that I’m not a baby daddy and I’ve never had any false rape charges against me.
Alas, but poor pretty Eddie is afraid that this won’t be enough, and begs the assembled MGTOWers for “other steps I should take.”
Site admin Nacho Vidal suggests he go another way entirely:
My advice would be to scrap the ‘steps’ you’ve taken and take your wanking up a notch! Also, have you looked into hiring a whore or two once a month?
Others jump in to endorse the masturbation-and-prostitute strategy, and encourage him to cultivate his hatred of women by reading from the ample selection of stories on the site about evil, depraved, disgusting women. As fairi5fair puts it:
I go to college and still get the biochemical reactions that play into the mate-spawn-die script when I see a 20 year old with a candy apple ass and perky tits, but my growing understanding of women in general helps to make it less urgent and more negligible everyday.
A few others have more novel advice. Our friend womanhater suggests a trip to the mall:
Sit in the food court, and spend a good three hours there. Leisurely sip on some coffee, and simply watch.
See all the soulless men being dragged around by cupcake holding her bags. You’ll see the total absence of hope in the eyes of men in this trap. You’ll see his brain calculating the immense debt being run up, and yet he knows he’s fucked.
Pay attention to the stupid whores in training aged 15 or so, and simply listen the absolute shit running out of their mouth. Watch their behavior and internalize that every twat you see aged 25 was doing the exact same shit a decade ago.
Every time I start to feel my ghosting resolve start to slip, I go to the mall for a few hours. Clears my fucking head every time.
NewWorldMan suggests a sort of mind-over-boner strategy:
Sounds like BS, I know, but telling myself (actually saying the sentence in my head at the moment of attraction): “I control my dick, my dick doesn’t control me — actually works for me.
Frederick326 suggests an anatomy lesson:
Read up on vaginas. They’re fucking disgusting.
And fairi5fair also links to the (somewhat NSFW) video below. I’m not sure what exactly it’s supposed to accomplish other than to remind us that Japan leads the world in baffling entertainment product:
Given how much variation there is in the type of men that I’ve seen women go for even within my own personal circle I’m going to bet that it’s not the looks that are the issue. Contempt for women plus a raging sense of entitlement, on the other hand, can render even the most handsome man unfuckable.
Got it in a nutshell!
“Instead of looking around for men that you, as a straight man, think women would probably physically desire, try looking around for men for whom there is empirical evidence that at least one woman physically desires them – i.e. any man who is part of a heterosexual couple. I promise, 100% guarantee, that you will not actually find those guys to be especially rare! ”
You are right. Men only ought to be desirable to one woman (the one they have ENDED UP with, most likely due to circumstance). But every average ‘girlfriend’ and ‘wife’ can be desired by millions of other men. I’ve had 2 gf’s in my life too. This topic was about *gasp* casual sex opportunities.
I will repeat, I firmly believe, that women are predisposed to find a much smaller percentage of men physically appealing, while men a much much larger percentage of women. What do I expect you to do about it? Nothing.
Why this obsession with physical appeal? The impression I get from talking about this at length with female friends is that this is only part of the overall attractiveness quotient, and can be quite a small part depending on the man’s other qualities – warmth, humor, intelligent conversation, interest in them as something other than a flesh-and-blood fuck-toy, that kind of thing.
But, unfortunately for some, this means that getting to first base requires actually talking to your intended partner and treating her as a human being. Which seems to be an insuperable obstacle in some cases, though I have no idea why.
Halloween is the seeeeeason
for threadnecromancyyyyyyyyy
Wetherby
So you do agree that women find fewer men visually appealing?
and that men will have to put in more effort to attract women because it is very likely that a mans physical appeal, his body, is no where enough for a woman to base attraction upon. That men will have to ‘supplement’ themselves with other qualities like confidence, charm, intelligence, humor or bring other things to the table (status?) in order to be acceptable to women. Does that explain why there are more ‘losers’ among men who cant sexually attract women because men are held to a higher standard in these areas?
For most men, a woman visual appeal is enough to cause sexual attraction. All a man then requires is that there is nothing horribly wrong with her personality. The average womans body is enough to cause sexual attraction for most men. What was the last time a woman had to make you laugh in order to get you in bed? It didnt happen because you already want her body. She already has something you want, You dont require her to make an effort. She doesnt need to supplement herself or bring anything else to the table other than her sexuality and her body. Tell me, you dont make more effort than the women you have casual sex with?
For a woman to base sexual decision solely on looks, the guy has to be great looking…perfect body, handsome face.
It’s funny that men are often told they dont get laid because they have low self esteem and no confidence. Women with low self-esteem actually end up getting laid more.
Most men cannot expect to be sexually desired for their bodies and looks. They are only ‘desired’ for what they do and how uselful they (be it useful in making her laugh or making HER feel a particular way) They just end up getting laid because of circumstance or the other qualities they bring to the table. Men make more effort that the woman they sleep with.
There is a great article by Hugo Schwyzer on this subject
http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2009/05/04/of-never-feeling-hot-the-missing-narrative-of-desire-in-the-lives-of-straight-men/
Just because you are a sad little man with very few standards does not mean that most other men are too.
BTW, if you want to drop links to prove a point you might want to try linking to people who haven’t confessed to attempted murder.
@ Tulgey
Dude, I just watched 28 weeks later. Tim’s last comment had me going “oh, look, the rage virus is setting in”.
Cassandra
I think I have made my points without resorting to personal attacks and belittling others opinions, so I dont know about the ‘rage virus’.
“Just because you are a sad little man with very few standards does not mean that most other men are too.”
I know the fact that men are much more forgiving to women on their looks and bodies is a bit uncomfortable for you, given that you swallowed long ago that every man wants to bang a pornstar (porn is screwing mens expectations of what women should look like, remember?). Its hard to overcome core beliefs.
If you consider yourself average looking (ie you are anywhere around the 50th percentile looks) then its likely that half of the men on your facebook friend list think you are cute, pretty, appealing atleast to some extent and will have sex with you if only you made an offer. Same for your coworkers and male acquaintances.
Even if I was a woman, I doubt I’d be able to answer this. I’ve known plenty of women for whom good looks are the be-all and end-all in a partner, and others for whom it makes no difference at all. Rather like men, in fact.
Well, it shouldn’t do, because it really really really doesn’t take a huge amount of effort to bring things like charm, intelligence and humor to the table. It just takes a certain amount of self-awareness and an ability to empathize.
In fact, I’d say it’s rather easier to bring all that to the table than it is to spend several hours fussing over one’s appearance prior to going out.
Timmy, you keep harping on about men supposedly not being physically attractive to women, ergo not getting casual sex, and totally ignoring everything that’s been said pointing out that – I’ll say this slowly –
Physical
Attractiveness
Is
Not
The
Only
Requirement
For
Having
Casual
Sex.
There’s actually being an attractive PERSON. Y’know, having personality characteristics that make you appealing? Stuff like that? Or is that just toooo much to ask?
As Cassandra said, very clearly, it doesn’t matter how handsome a man is if he’s contemptuous of women and has a raging sense of entitlement. He’ll get told to fuck off anyway.
And since you’re now claiming not to expect anything of us here, why the hell did you bother coming to this site to resurrect a dead topic? You’re just painting yourself as a whiny loser, which most MRAs who blab endlessly about how cruuuuellllllllllllll it is that they don’t get sex on demand are.
Sorry, I missed this gem:
I hate to burst your bubble, but the answer is “every single time”. I can’t stress how important a sense of humor is to me in a partner – far more important than “wanting her body”, which is likely to follow naturally if I’m attracted to her as a person. Even back in the days when I sought out casual sex, physical attraction on its own simply wasn’t enough.
Since this argument is based on a wholly false premise, you won’t be surprised to hear that I did indeed make less effort than the women that I used to have casual sex with. In fact, I can pretty much guarantee that they spent more time making themselves look attractive than I did, whereas I just rolled up on the date and tried to make them laugh. And if that failed, the date was probably doomed from the start.
Seriously, Tim, is eye candy all you expect from a date? If that’s your attitude, it’s no wonder you’re ‘incel’.
Is Tim is talking about dates? Sounds more like he’s talking of wandering up to random women on the street & suggesting sex.
You know something that makes it harder for men to get casual sex? The way men often talk about women they’ve had casual sex with. It can be stomach turning to realise what you thought was a bit of mutual fun has turned you into an object of mockery. Is it surprising at all to you that even women who love casual sex would prefer to find out if they can trust a guy before they shag him?
I think guys like Tim also see casual sex as a synonym for emotionless sex. The kind where all he cares about is getting off, and not about any of the other fun/nice parts of sex.
Timmy, if all you want is a hole, buy a Fleshlight.
And this is the basic communication problem I have with people like that. For me, some kind of social rapport with my prospective partner is non-negotiable – if it doesn’t happen, neither does the sex. Unsurprisingly, my various partners all seem to feel the same way – I can’t think of a single exception.
The period spent getting to know them as people might seem like “effort” to the likes of Tim (and of course it’s effort expended on both sides), but not only does it significantly increase the likelihood that sex might follow, but it makes it even more likely that if sex does follow, it’ll actually be fun, and not utterly joyless and mechanical. Not to mention less likely to be followed by an acute feeling of depression and self-loathing.
Personally, I think that’s worth the effort.
We really need to make sure that Tim and CL never meet. Matter meets anti-matter and the universe could implode. Or something.
You’re half right in that a man’s looks are only part of the equation, but that doesn’t mean women have to put in “less effort” to be attractive. There’s a reason why cosmetics represent a multi-billion dollar industry.
And really, the “effort” required by men isn’t enormous. Game = cosmetics for dudes.
This kind of set-up, where all you have to do is be female to get whatever fella you desire, must have happened during the last decade or so while I’ve been paired up. I got rejected MANY times when I was single, and it was usually because the guy wasn’t physically attracted to me. I have a very slim profile; my figure is pretty close to what Joey Lauren Adams’ body looked like in “Chasing Amy.” Many guys find that kind of body appealing – my husband is one – but not every guy likes a super-skinny girl. I had crushes on several who emphatically did NOT want my body. If I made my interest known (or if they found out through a third party), I’d get the kind of brush-off that a lot of Nice Guys complain about: “you’re smart and funny and really sweet and cute… but I just don’t like you that way.” I’d usually see the objects of my desire later with women who actually had breasts and hips, which made it pretty obvious why they didn’t like me “that way.”
And that’s fine. Everyone has their own list of what makes a person attractive. And that’s why it’s stupid to make blanket statements about how all a woman has to do is show up in order to get laid, while men toil and struggle. You can make the argument that I don’t have the “average woman’s” body, and therefore my experiences don’t count. But if guys were really that desperate for sex (and several of the men I wanted were not beating girls off with sticks at the time), wouldn’t every man I like have jumped my bones just because I had a vagina? Especially since these guys had obviously not put any time and effort into captivating me in the first place, so I was essentially a freebie? Does not compute.
Unless, as I said, the whole idea that women can point their fingers and command sex has happened since 2003. If that’s the case, disregard.
– Wants casual sex
– Consistently Others those who endanger his worldview (YUPIPL!!!)
– Sees sexual interaction as a marketplace that women control
– Believes this to be some kind of societal problem
– Makes up societal trends based on anecdata
– Mansplains
– Obsessed with appearance
*deadpan* why in the world could you possibly be incel.
This 80/20 “statistic” is an absurd, frustration-driven exaggeration. I think dudes who cite it are mostly trying to comfort themselves that it’s not their own fault that they’re lonely or horny or whatever.
I wanna second Fitzy here: Tim, if you were a woman of average attractiveness seeking casual sex, you would see that it doesn’t actually work very well to go up to strange men and proposition them point blank. When I was in highschool and college, you heard all these jokes about how guys would fuck anything that moved, but that was mostly posturing. I was honestly surprised at first to learn that most guys wanted to get to know me first. It took me even longer to admit that I was more comfortable getting to know them first, too.
This links in to Cassandra’s point about the common understanding of casual sex and how it’s mechanically easier for guys. If you ask somebody, ‘wanna have sex?’ they think you mean penis-in-vagina, not tongue-on-clitoris. A lot of why I want to know when I’m getting to know a guy is how likely it is that they’re going to regard tongue-on-clitoris as equally important.
*what I want to know, not /why/ I want to know, eesh.
This is perhaps the best evidence you’ve offered yet as to why you have trouble getting laid. I’m not sure I could come up with a more obvious red flag than “thinks partners who hate themselves are more desirable.” Ick.