Consider the plight of the poor, horny Man Going His Own Way. He may have convinced himself that women are icky monsters out to highjack his sperm and steal his money. He may have convinced himself we live in a femi-fascist gynocracy out to destroy men and civilization generally. Yet his disobedient penis can’t stop thinking about sex with these evil, filthy women.
And so he turns to his fellow MGTOWers to ask for help: what can I do, my brethren, to stop popping so many boners? Ed1974, a newbie on MGTOWforums.com, puts it this way in a plaintive recent post:
[M]ore than almost anything I want to be woman-free and contentment to live a woman-free life. For more or less all of my adult life I’ve played in to society’s demands that I have to have a woman, and preferably a pretty woman, in my life. I’ve done a lot of Internet dating and every friggin time I get involved with a woman I regret it. Either I just want to get some ass and the woman wants a lot more than that and makes a mess out of my life when I leave, or I end up spending way more money than I ever wanted to spend just to have her grace my life with her presence, or something else that fucks up my life. The bottom line is I sincerely want to live a life without the desire to have a woman in my life.
So Ed is taking steps to quell his desire:
1. I downloaded a firewall blocking all dating sites.
2. I’m going to read as many books on misandry that I can.
3. I’m going to take myself out of situations where I can get in trouble, such as bars.
4. I’m going to fill free time that I would normally spend out with some woman with something productive.
I also want to remember the bad times where I’ve had women who I’ve tried to get out of my life end up stalking me for months on end. And to be perfectly honest, I want to remember the time I got the clap from some skank. I also want to remember that I should be thankful that I’m not a baby daddy and I’ve never had any false rape charges against me.
Alas, but poor pretty Eddie is afraid that this won’t be enough, and begs the assembled MGTOWers for “other steps I should take.”
Site admin Nacho Vidal suggests he go another way entirely:
My advice would be to scrap the ‘steps’ you’ve taken and take your wanking up a notch! Also, have you looked into hiring a whore or two once a month?
Others jump in to endorse the masturbation-and-prostitute strategy, and encourage him to cultivate his hatred of women by reading from the ample selection of stories on the site about evil, depraved, disgusting women. As fairi5fair puts it:
I go to college and still get the biochemical reactions that play into the mate-spawn-die script when I see a 20 year old with a candy apple ass and perky tits, but my growing understanding of women in general helps to make it less urgent and more negligible everyday.
A few others have more novel advice. Our friend womanhater suggests a trip to the mall:
Sit in the food court, and spend a good three hours there. Leisurely sip on some coffee, and simply watch.
See all the soulless men being dragged around by cupcake holding her bags. You’ll see the total absence of hope in the eyes of men in this trap. You’ll see his brain calculating the immense debt being run up, and yet he knows he’s fucked.
Pay attention to the stupid whores in training aged 15 or so, and simply listen the absolute shit running out of their mouth. Watch their behavior and internalize that every twat you see aged 25 was doing the exact same shit a decade ago.
Every time I start to feel my ghosting resolve start to slip, I go to the mall for a few hours. Clears my fucking head every time.
NewWorldMan suggests a sort of mind-over-boner strategy:
Sounds like BS, I know, but telling myself (actually saying the sentence in my head at the moment of attraction): “I control my dick, my dick doesn’t control me — actually works for me.
Frederick326 suggests an anatomy lesson:
Read up on vaginas. They’re fucking disgusting.
And fairi5fair also links to the (somewhat NSFW) video below. I’m not sure what exactly it’s supposed to accomplish other than to remind us that Japan leads the world in baffling entertainment product:
NWO said:
“@Holly Pervocracy
“…And it’s pretty misandrist, frankly, to claim that men only care about sex and would be totally satisfied with a brainless sexbot so long as it was sexy. Most men aren’t nearly that shallow, and you’d have to have some fucked-up ideas about the male gender to think so.”
Men don’t care only about sex, but it is a major biological drive. And it is used as a weapon by the fairer sex. Not only the sex itself, but women use their gender for gain, attention, sympathy. It’s not that men are shallow it’s women.
What do women place on the table?
Not loyalty, they have sexual agency, the opposite of loyalty.
Not concern, tenderness or sympathy for even individual men above women as a whole. Just two of your posts off the top of my head, slavering beast, and 100% support of women who merely accuse any man. Both are an insult to men and endemic of the society we live in. Both posts were given rave reviews from the entire crew.
The constant support for gays and men wearing dresses , both of which is anti-masculine to say the least.
Women say they don’t dress for other men, but that’s exactly what it is. Disloyalty, flaunting your sexuality for all men instead of the man you claim to love.
Men don’t have any rights to a live child, or to even the children they have.
So what exactly so do modern day women place on the table?”
I’ve never heard such a load of ignorant, self pitying, anti-woman, unsupported (do you ever bother to cite your sources for this kind of arrant bullshit?) self-centred clap-trap in my entire life!
You talk about women using sex as a weapon but men use it far more than women ever did. In fact, rape has been the way men have kept women in line for centuries, if not millennia and if that’s not using sex as a weapon I don’t know what the hell is!
And yes, some women are mercenary and out for what they can get, but so are some men. So why is it OK for you to generalize about all women on the strength of the behavior of some? We haven’t made any such generalizations about men. There are some unpleasant, mercenary, unscrupulous people in the world, either avoid them or deal with it. The rest of us have to.
Please, explain to me why sexual agency is the opposite of loyalty. Sexual agency means that you control your own body and choose who you have sex with, when and how. A person who has sexual agency can do as they want, I choose to be in monogamous marriage with my husband and never have sex with anyone else. That’s a use for my sexual agency. I chose to do that, I wasn’t given to my husband by my father to be used as a slave without a will or choices of my own. Other people may use their sexual agency in different ways and that’s absolutely fine with me. In what way am I being disloyal to my husband by using my own sexual agency?
I can tell you from experience that no long term relationship or marriage survives without concern, tenderness, sympathy and a heap of other qualities that you did not care to mention. You either don’t know what you’re talking about or you’ve been really unlucky in your relationships.
You are seriously misrepresenting the posts in question.
Why wouldn’t we support gays and people wearing whatever the hell they like? Why is who one sleeps with or how one dresses anybody else’s business and why would I care if
some man chooses to be unmasculine (for want of a better word)?
I’m looking around trying to find all these women flaunting their bodies and all I’m seeing is a lot of women dressed in jeans and tee-shirts. All quite reasonably covered and not flaunting anything at all. What kind of clothing would be appropriate, do you think? The
burqa? The salwa kamiz, perhaps?
Pst: your sentence about children doesn’t make sense.
We bring what any other human being brings. Our individual selves.
Re:”giving your virginity” I’m not even attempting to argue with NWOslave about this, because what he does doesn’t even count as arguing, but virginity is not something you can “give”. It’s even not a thing.
Virginity is a total lack of sexual experience; an intangible state of being and nothing more. It’s impossible to give your virginity to someone, because once you lose it, it ceases to exist.
Mary? Is that you?
Joking… This was what broke me and my “official” first girlfriend up. I was a flaming asshole who didn’t respect the fact she didn’t want to have sex.
But I like to think I’m proof that you don’t always have to be an asshole, if you don’t want to be.
Wouldn’t you just shit if she is?!
What if you didn’t say that. What if you said, “I don’t want a relationship right now. Sex is fine, and friendship, but i’m saving my loyalty and heart for my true love, so don’t get too attached. As long as you’re fine with that, we can have something. ”
So the true love does get a loyalty and words of love that nobody else ever had.
Thoughts?
…why wouldn’t you also be saving your body for your “true love”, that case?
This whole thing about men not being sexy just makes me sad. They are, honest! It’s just none of them can wrap their minds around the idea.
Of course, it might help if women would, you know, tell normal men that, instead of only showing sexual interest in celebrities and fictional characters…
And your evidence for showing that women are generally not doing this is… what exactly?
*Facepalm*
Huh? No women ever show any men that they’re sexually interested in them? I may not shout “nice ass” at random men walking past on the street, but I certainly show sexual interest in men when it’s appropriate.
Also, I may be in the minority here, but have zero sexual interest in male celebrities. I’ve never fantasized about a male celeb in my life. This is partly because they’re completely unattainable, I think. I find many of them pretty to look at, I love some of them for their acting, and I love people like Hugh Jackman for being pretty AND generally awesome, but that’s about as far as it goes.
NWO:
So according to your logic, none of my last three girlfriends (all of whom had had sexual partners stretching well into double figures – nearly triple in one case, thanks to a two-year stint as a popular bartender) should have been capable of forming a long-term lasting relationship – despite the relationships in question lasting for three years, seven years and ten years (the last still ongoing).
As I said earlier, there’s an absolutely fundamental difference between hooking up with someone for mutually agreeable but brief physical coupling, and hooking up with someone for a long-term relationship or a lifelong marriage.
And what saddens me about your seeming inability to appreciate this difference, assuming that you’re not being obtuse deliberately, is that I genuinely don’t think you can have experienced the latter. Otherwise you’d know.
On the tight clothing “issue” being discussed…
I have no problems with tight jeans at all! But don’t get all mad and puffed up if I chose to look at your butt for a few more seconds! If you’re in public, expect people to be looking at you, and yes, some of those people are not going to be millionaire male underwear models, unfortunately.
On the sexual harassment/creepiness issue being discussed…
First of all, the word “creepy” is WAY overused to carry any significant meaning anymore. If every man who is not a complete stud who glances in your direction is a “creeper”, then it takes away the utility of the word when used against people who are ACTUALLY creepy! When I hear anyone, man or woman, describe someone as “creep”, or any variation thereof, I just ignore it because I know that it means little more than “a man who I don’t find attractive”. On the occasion where I am described as a creep, I take it lightheartedly and explain that I feel it a badge of honor to be noticed by a woman, even though I’m not a CK-underwear model. I also then explain as I have above.
On the “any man can be a rapist” issue…
I agree. Also, any woman can be a rapist too. My first sexual encounter? I was 8 years old, being babysat by the older (maybe 30) neighbor lady. She made me “eat the kitty”. I knew it was wrong, she made me do it anyways. I didn’t tell anyone because I was ashamed and I felt that it wouldn’t change anything. It had already happened. She told me not to tell the parents or I would get punished.
I now have a child who I am raising as a single father. I am just as cautious with recruiting female babysitters as I am when I interview a male. The notion that “only men can rape” or “most rapists are men” is inaccurate at best. If you think most male rapists go unreported, the fact is doubly so for female rapists.
I can’t help but think that there seems to be a group of men (probably disproportionately represented in “MGTOW” circles) who are either far outside of the “normal men who women show sexual interest in” demographic, or have problems picking up on signals of sexual interest by women, and therefore become frustrated and miserable.
Most “normal men” I personally know (although I may not be the best judge of normalcy) claim to have been flirted with by women, and in other ways have been the recipient of women’s sexual interest. It’s the “not-so-normal” ones (very physically unattractive or extremely socially awkward ones – those who in PUA terminology would be considered “omega males”) who never do, and many of them become genuinely frustrated and miserable about this. I can certainly believe that this contributes to driving some men into misogyny.
Which is why, earlier in the thread, I pointed out that behind all the layers of misogyny in Ed1974’s post, there is a legitimate question: How can a heterosexual person live an asexual life (whether out of ideology or necessity) *WITHOUT* excessive misery and sexual frustration?
Adopting a stance of hatred for the sex one is attracted to seems to me to be self-defeating; hatred is a very intense emotional state, and a misogynist heterosexual man who spends a lot of time *hating* women will spend at least that much time *thinking about* women, which is probably a recipe for suffering (and something similar would apply to a misandrist heterosexual woman).
WhereRSexBots: First of all, the word “creepy” is WAY overused to carry any significant meaning anymore. If every man who is not a complete stud who glances in your direction is a “creeper”, then it takes away the utility of the word when used against people who are ACTUALLY creepy! When I hear anyone, man or woman, describe someone as “creep”, or any variation thereof, I just ignore it because I know that it means little more than “a man who I don’t find attractive”. On the occasion where I am described as a creep, I take it lightheartedly and explain that I feel it a badge of honor to be noticed by a woman, even though I’m not a CK-underwear model. I also then explain as I have above.
Nonsense. You are defining creepy as a way to justify being a leering asshat. I’ve never known a woman to say, “he’s creepy/he’s a creep” just because someone wasn’t easy on the eyes. It’s always been some bit of lack of respect for personal boundaries.
What I do see is a lot of men whom I see engaging in creeepy behavior denying that they aren’t respecting boundaries.
The notion that “only men can rape” or “most rapists are men” is inaccurate at best. If you think most male rapists go unreported, the fact is doubly so for female rapists.
If you think we are denying that, you aren’t paying attention. If you think the scale of the problem, and the social pressures on women to rearrange their lives because of the possibility of rape is the same as that for men; because of rape, you really aren’t paying attention.
It’s2011-WhereRSexBots: I don’t get mad if someone looks at my bum “for a few seconds”. But I do feel uncomfortable and harassed if someone loudly comments on my body, or looks me up and down whilst licking their lips and make lewd gestures. Also, for the record, conventionally good-looking men are every bit as capable of being creepy or inappropriate as less good-looking men. In general, good-looking people (women and men) may “get away with more”, but that’s not to say that it’s not possible to tell the good ones from the assholes (this goes for any gender).
I’m deeply sorry to hear that you were sexually abused as a child. The feeling of shame is common in rape victims. You are right to be cautious about who looks after your child. Not only is the notion “only men can rape” inaccurate, it’s also very harmful.
This is absolutely true, and it doesn’t help that there’s a widespread attitude that a man who is sexually assaulted by a woman is somehow “lucky”. Look at just about any newspaper account of, say, a story about a female teacher being prosecuted for underage sex with one of her male pupils, and you’ll get numerous examples of a kind that you absolutely wouldn’t get if the genders were reversed.
Which reminds me: my blood momentarily froze the other week when my daughter told me that she “didn’t like” the female babysitter who was coming that night, as I immediately assumed that something untoward must have happened the last time. In fact, it was something as trivial as the fact that last time the babysitter arrived after she’d gone to bed and when she popped downstairs for a glass of water she saw this strange woman and didn’t know what to do – so it was social awkwardness rather than anything more sinister, and they got on like a house on fire the second time round after I introduced them properly.
But you only have to Google ‘Vanessa George’ to realize that while it’s statistically much less likely (vanishingly unlikely, in fact), it’s nonetheless not completely impossible for female carers to be sexual predators.
@Pam, I’d probably appologize for being a class “A” asshole. The thing I regret the most from my youth was how I discounted other people’s experiences.
Well that and being a Nice Guy(tm)
That must explain why I got all the comments and compliments at Mardi Gras 2011. Since I was dressed up like Wez from the Road Warrior, all those poor weak lady-brainz must have thought I wasn’t really a real-life man. Either that or the football gear and feathers confused them into thinking I was an 8 foot tall Brad Pitt.
Thoughts?
…why wouldn’t you also be saving your body for your “true love”, that case?
Um, because sex is fun? That would seem to be a staggeringly obvious reason. (Also, because it’s not like your body is a thing you have to “save” by not using it to boink? Bodies do not actually go away if you have too much sex!)
Like I said, I, personally, don’t particularly enjoy casual sex, so I, personally, have chosen only to have sex when my partner is someone I care deeply about, which means that I, personally, have not had a long list of sexual partners. Similarly, I, personally, do not particularly enjoy eating oysters, so I, personally, have not eaten many oysters. But if someone really loves oysters, I don’t think they need to refrain from oyster-eating in order to save themselves for their One True Oyster. It’s totally fine if you want to have sex with only one person in your life. (Although I hope you don’t tie yourself to that idea so much you make yourself miserable, because the idea that everyone has “one true love” is fundamentally stupid. Sometimes the person you think is your “one true love” dies or breaks up with you or turns out to be a jerk or just doesn’t work well with you in the long term for whatever reason. Most people to whom this happens don’t resign themselves to being Forever Alone – they mourn for a bit and then go out and find a new true love, and that’s a good thing!) It’s just not fine if you expect everyone else to conform to your oyster-eating standards when they have no reason to share your opinions about oysters.
Of course, it might help if women would, you know, tell normal men that, instead of only showing sexual interest in celebrities and fictional characters…
To the best of my knowledge, my boyfriend is neither a celebrity nor a fictional character, and I’m pretty sure I tell him how sexy I think he is on a regular basis. I don’t think I’m particularly unique in this.
What’s wrong with a woman sowing her own wild oats before she settles down, if she wants to settle down? Sometimes a woman will wait to have sex until she’s married, then a few years down the line she’ll start to wonder if she missed out on anything. Sorry to bring celebrity gossip into this, but that is actually one of the reasons Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey got divorced. After a few years of marriage, she regretted not experiencing any other sexual partners and filed for divorce so she could date different men. Sometimes women need to get their own ya ya’s out before they make a lifelong commitment to another person.
Provided she takes the necessary contraceptive and anti-STD precautions, nothing at all. Personally, I’m all for it: in my experience there’s a very strong correlation indeed between the amount of wild oats sown by my various partners and the quality of our sex life, and I suspect this isn’t a coincidence.
Case in point: my wife. She married far too young first time round (early twenties), realized fairly quickly that the marriage wasn’t going anywhere, got divorced before kids became an issue (her decree nisi refers to adultery with an “unnamed man”, who didn’t actually exist, but it was an easy way to get the marriage annulled), and spent the next ten years by all accounts having a whale of a time.
Good for her, I say: it’s made her the fabulous, confident, sexually assured creature that I know and love today – and by all accounts she was quite a different person 15-20 years ago.
*raises hand
I gave him my virginity, he gave me his (which, by our calculation, means we still have one virginity each!) we’re not poly and I never cheated on him.
And while we’re at it, nobody has seen any part or my body all day – except my hands and face – because I was wearing a poncho because 1) I was cold 2) I love ponchos.
Also, a cherry on top just for you, my sexual life is anything but kinky.
Can I can have my crazy women-hating cookie now? 🙂
Now.
Because I am a nice person, I will give you reasons to keep hating me: I don’t intent to marry my boyfriend, or raise kids with him, or not have sex with another person for the rest of my life. He knows it, and is fine with it.
I didn’t place any value on my virginity; which is why my standard for getting my virginity wasn’t “true love, the one, future father of my child” but “nice person that will make it, as much as he can, an agreeable moment”
What about you? Are you still with your first girlfriend? Are you a slut, NWOslave?
>>>Can I have a show of hands as to which of you darlings is with her first boyfriend?
>>>I know the number, zero.
Geez, that’s a nice prediction, given that it’s the norm for every human being since times immemorial to have multiple (boy/girl)friend in their lives.
And even with that caveat, he’s already been proven wrong three times. ^_^
The word woman obviously.
Some men seem to feel inadequate when they’re with a woman with more sexual experience than they – perhaps because they’re afraid that they won’t compare favourably to her previous partners? It seems to be fairly common.
blockquote>Can I have a show of hands as to which of you darlings is with her first boyfriend?
I know the number, zero.
/me raises hand. And we’ve been happily (even sometimes joyfully) married for more than ten years. Fuckwit.