Consider the plight of the poor, horny Man Going His Own Way. He may have convinced himself that women are icky monsters out to highjack his sperm and steal his money. He may have convinced himself we live in a femi-fascist gynocracy out to destroy men and civilization generally. Yet his disobedient penis can’t stop thinking about sex with these evil, filthy women.
And so he turns to his fellow MGTOWers to ask for help: what can I do, my brethren, to stop popping so many boners? Ed1974, a newbie on MGTOWforums.com, puts it this way in a plaintive recent post:
[M]ore than almost anything I want to be woman-free and contentment to live a woman-free life. For more or less all of my adult life I’ve played in to society’s demands that I have to have a woman, and preferably a pretty woman, in my life. I’ve done a lot of Internet dating and every friggin time I get involved with a woman I regret it. Either I just want to get some ass and the woman wants a lot more than that and makes a mess out of my life when I leave, or I end up spending way more money than I ever wanted to spend just to have her grace my life with her presence, or something else that fucks up my life. The bottom line is I sincerely want to live a life without the desire to have a woman in my life.
So Ed is taking steps to quell his desire:
1. I downloaded a firewall blocking all dating sites.
2. I’m going to read as many books on misandry that I can.
3. I’m going to take myself out of situations where I can get in trouble, such as bars.
4. I’m going to fill free time that I would normally spend out with some woman with something productive.
I also want to remember the bad times where I’ve had women who I’ve tried to get out of my life end up stalking me for months on end. And to be perfectly honest, I want to remember the time I got the clap from some skank. I also want to remember that I should be thankful that I’m not a baby daddy and I’ve never had any false rape charges against me.
Alas, but poor pretty Eddie is afraid that this won’t be enough, and begs the assembled MGTOWers for “other steps I should take.”
Site admin Nacho Vidal suggests he go another way entirely:
My advice would be to scrap the ‘steps’ you’ve taken and take your wanking up a notch! Also, have you looked into hiring a whore or two once a month?
Others jump in to endorse the masturbation-and-prostitute strategy, and encourage him to cultivate his hatred of women by reading from the ample selection of stories on the site about evil, depraved, disgusting women. As fairi5fair puts it:
I go to college and still get the biochemical reactions that play into the mate-spawn-die script when I see a 20 year old with a candy apple ass and perky tits, but my growing understanding of women in general helps to make it less urgent and more negligible everyday.
A few others have more novel advice. Our friend womanhater suggests a trip to the mall:
Sit in the food court, and spend a good three hours there. Leisurely sip on some coffee, and simply watch.
See all the soulless men being dragged around by cupcake holding her bags. You’ll see the total absence of hope in the eyes of men in this trap. You’ll see his brain calculating the immense debt being run up, and yet he knows he’s fucked.
Pay attention to the stupid whores in training aged 15 or so, and simply listen the absolute shit running out of their mouth. Watch their behavior and internalize that every twat you see aged 25 was doing the exact same shit a decade ago.
Every time I start to feel my ghosting resolve start to slip, I go to the mall for a few hours. Clears my fucking head every time.
NewWorldMan suggests a sort of mind-over-boner strategy:
Sounds like BS, I know, but telling myself (actually saying the sentence in my head at the moment of attraction): “I control my dick, my dick doesn’t control me — actually works for me.
Frederick326 suggests an anatomy lesson:
Read up on vaginas. They’re fucking disgusting.
And fairi5fair also links to the (somewhat NSFW) video below. I’m not sure what exactly it’s supposed to accomplish other than to remind us that Japan leads the world in baffling entertainment product:
C’mon polliwog, be fair, what he was actually saying is that women who hate themselves will sell their sex treats for fewer attention dollars.
Which, y’know, is also disgusting, but what are you gonna do.
Oh, Tim, you poor deluded little man. I don’t believe that all men only want to fuck porn stars. I believe that men, like women, have individual preferences that vary quite a bit, and that they will turn down sex with women who other men consider attractive but who just don’t do it for them. I believe this because I’ve seen it happen, many times.
As I said before, just because you have very few standards about who you’ll have sex with doesn’t mean that most other men are the same.
(I’m also curious about why the idea that most men will fuck almost any woman if asked would be “uncomfortable” for me, or for women in general. That idea isn’t disturbing or upsetting, it’s just not true, so the only discomfort I feel when I encounter men like Tim comes from the fact that it feels odd to feel sorry for someone who’s so creepy.)
@ Polliwog
I’ve actually seen the study he’s talking about, and the way he’s misusing that data point isn’t so much a red flag as a giant neon sign that’s firing flaming arrows everywhere.
And I believe it because it absolutely fits my experience too. There are many, many women in my life whom I love dearly as individuals but absolutely can’t imagine having a sexual relationship with – my wife’s best friend, for instance.
I actually think that if the two of them were to go out with the specific aim of getting casual sex, the friend would get hit on more often – she’s more conventionally attractive, and probably easier company socially. And yet, for some reason that is clearly completely beyond either of our control, she just doesn’t do it for me.
(I very much hope the feeling’s mutual, and suspect that it probably is, although obviously we’ve never discussed the subject and are never likely to).
Also! What does a “pornstar” look like, in Timmy’s mind? The most famous female porn stars who I can think of are Jenna Jameson and Sasha Grey, and they look nothing like each other.
Necrothread on personal sex problems!
I am so tired of the okcupid thing. People keep saying that it means women have unrealistic expectations. I think it just means that they are misinterpreting the scale.
If 1 is the ugliest person you know, and 5 is the hottest person you know, if the divisions are even, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why it should cluster around the middle. My personal chart would be similar. There are a few really hot guys, and most just don’t do anything. I’d say out of 10 people, there’s one ‘5’, two ‘4’s, one ‘3’, three ‘2’s and three ‘1’s of the guys I know. Most are unattractive, and a few are attractive. voila.
Personally, I think this is due to the difference in minimum acceptable level of personal upkeep expected of women and men. Women basically have to continuously maintain their attractiveness level, just to do normal, non-sexual things like have a job, and men don’t give a flying fuck. Thus, the few that do something can really stand out. I hypothesize that if men overall spent the same amount of effort on their appearance as women, the attractiveness graphs would be similar.
RANTYRANTYZOMBIERANT
I once pointed out that even at a sex (or swingers) club, a person still has to say “hi” before having intimate contact of any type. The second thing is of course “May I do XYZ?”
Maybe Tim just wants to have a Bonobo society.
Now we’re probably going to get “a man of average looks at the swingers club – a tale of woe”.
Guy whose ideas and attitude about sex, sexual attraction, and sexual chemistry basically scream “I suck in bed!” is upset that women won’t have casual sex with him.
In other news, water is surprisingly wet.
That might be funny…key word “might”.
@starskita – you’re right, that’s a huge factor! anyone who’s done any online dating can tell you how much more effort the majority of women put into their profile pictures, and of course it’s because they’re expected to. so many straight men think it’s unmanly to make any discernable effort to look more attractive.
@starskita – Agreed on the OkCupid data. I’m so sick of those stats that I could kick something. I’m about to the point where the next time a troll throws that particular tidbit into the mix, I’m going to reply with the Monty Python Spam song. Or maybe that Meow Mix video that the second-to-last incarnation of Pell loved so much.
So much THIS about emotionless sex, and the scorn too many men show for women afterward – not seeing women as people, in other words. Tim sounds like he thinks even talking to women is too much to ask of him. It’s like he should just be able to gesture and the woman-of-choice should drop everything she’s doing and shag him.
As has been said before: Timmy, if you don’t even want to talk, to get to know someone as a person, get a fleshlight and keep away from living women. Though by the sound of it, you send off enough warning signals that women keep away from you.
The reason that the OKCupid data busts my chops is that the ratings aren’t of physical attractiveness, just general attractiveness. There’s no note under the bar of stars that says “Evaluate these people based on face/body only so our data doesn’t suck, m’kay”.
When I’m rating, anyone with a machine gun, a dead animal, or their shirt off in a mirror photo as their main pic gets a one, even if they’re the sort of guy I would otherwise put up a poster of on my bedroom wall. No fat chicks? That also gets a one.
@Nepenthe: which is not to mention the programmatic reasons you might not want to rate many of them high.
(dammit, where are my links? I cannot find them! I just had this conversation…)
@ Nepenthe
Exactly. I once gave someone the lowest possible rating even though he was very good looking because he was sitting on the roof of a sports car preening smugly in his pic, and his profile was all about how women WILL submit to him and he WILL pull your hair till it hurts during sex and if you don’t like it too bad, because a real woman would like it.
At that point if -5 stars was an option, that’s what I would have rated him, in spite of the pretty face and nice abs.
Hood, not roof. The roof might at least have been funny, which would have been a plus since the dude in question seemed to have had his sense of humor surgically removed.
OKCupid makes me weep for the future of humanity, mostly because there’s no way to give negative stars to someone whose picture is of them holding a machine gun and a dead animal with their shirt off, and whose first sentence includes the phrase “I like to have fun”.
4 stars is just not enough distance between these gents and people who I would like to date.
On the plus side, giving them lots of space to talk about themselves does make it easier to weed out people like our friend the wannabe dom. I’ve yet to encounter a gun lover of the NRA membership type here – that’s such a fundamental area of disagreement there should probably a way for people to preemptively.block each other for that reason.
They should simply the system using the following options – Yes, Maybe, Not Sure. No, Oh Hell No, and This Person Scares Me.
Simplify, not simply. Apparently just thinking about dating sites makes my grammar go to shit.
Hm, my comment disappeared. Please delete any duplicate, Dave.
~~
Yay, zombie thread is so much fun!
Tim, you really have got it totally arse about. Casual sex evaluations are generally made on how good the sex is predicted to be, for both sexes (and for same-sex-attracted folks as well as the opposite-sex-attracted, too, but let’s stick to your heteronormative model for now).
For selfish men such as you give every indication of being, Tim, any woman who looks good enough to make his boner hard is a woman he predicts that he will have an orgasm with if she agrees to PIV sex, so that’s all that he cares about. Her personality is irrelevant because it’s only his own satisfaction that he cares about. A selfish man may as well pay a sex worker to pretend that she’s having the best orgasm of her life, because he really only cares about what’s happening on his end of the interaction anyway.
For women looking for no-strings-attached sex, it is far more crucial to know whether the man cares about her having an orgasm as well as him having one. This cannot be done just by rating a man on his looks, because looks are not closely correlated with generosity/sensitivity in sex-making.
It doesn’t take much experience (one’s own and one’s friends) to learn that super-gorgeous men often don’t think they have to make any effort in the sack, and therefore are dud roots no matter how hot their arse is or how hard their abs are. However, many many men will tick the “attractive enough to root” box if they simply show that they are interested in getting to know a woman’s personality and preferences, because it shows that they maybe just might also be interested in getting to know what makes your body’s preferences too.
There’s also the issues of getting to know a chap well enough to make a more informed judgement about his general trustworthiness, due to the fact that on average he will be heavier/stronger and have the ability to overpower and coerce a female partner should he decide to do so, thus it’s simple common-sense risk assessment to evaluate whether one feels that basic level of trust or not. The consequences of being wrong here are, sadly, enough that many women simply won’t sleep with any man without knowing his full name and place of employment, and judging that they haven’t been lied to about this, because they write it down and give it to a friend in case they go missing.
This does all tend to take more time than the basic “Does she give me a boner? That’ll do then.” evaluation does, true. But the basic question still comes down to “Will I enjoy having sex with this person or not?”. If you don’t care to get to know women well enough for them to make an informed guesstimate on whether *they* will enjoy having sex with *you* that comes out in your favour, then you only have yourself to blame.
Wot tigtog said.
You know what I love about the internet (besides cat pics)? All the awesome articulate people who put things I feel into words.
lol – cockies are better talkers than magpies 😉