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Hole lotta hate

Be thankful you live in a world that also contains things like this.

Though Thanksgiving is over, I’m still thinking about all the things I’m thankful for. I’m thankful that so many fine people have made this blog a kind of online home. I’m thankful for the steady stream of trolls that keep us all so busy.  I’m thankful for friends, and kitties, and Netflix streaming, and the delicious Thanksgiving buffet I gorged on yesterday. I’m thankful I’m nowhere near a mall today. I could go on and on.

But instead I’ll just point out that I’m extra, especially, really really super-duper thankful I’m not this guy, as happily “single [and] free” as he claims to be. Or one of the 42 bitter assholes on The Spearhead who upvoted this comment of his:

I was going to limit my usage of women to that of a nice meat hole, but I concluded even that is too risky. Now I try to avoid western women altogether. Decades of child support can ruin a man’s life. STDs can ruin a man’s life. A False rape claim can ruin a man’s life. Also, women have disproportionate support from the courts and law enforcement thanks to traitorous manginas. Nearly every man I know who is living with a wife or gf is miserable. Nearly every man I know who does not have a wife or gf has a higher quality of life-or at least appears to be happier. From my observations, men’s quality of life usually decreases after long stints in relationships.

I will stay single, stay free, and live alone.

I am pretty sure that the “meat holes” of the world are even more happy about this last bit than you are.

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pecunium
9 years ago

Meller: Just compare Physics, to say nothing of related fields in the USA between 1910-1960 with American contributions–even men’s–between 1961 and 2010.

Right… Quantum Mechanics… nothing since 1990. Same for Astronomy. Solar Power…. completely stalled.

Human Genome, completely unmapped.

Computers… shit man, it’s gonna be decades before we have any that are smaller than a house.

But I think I know why women are doing all that sabotage: it’s delaying the sexbots.

zhinxy
9 years ago

Human Genome, completely unmapped.

-New world order plot, pecunium. That one doesn’t count. Or it does, but it’s totally nefarious.

zhinxy
9 years ago

“To have a ever-larger portion of an ever-shrinking pie is a sure symptom of impending disaster.

A word to the wise…”

There’s really not much practical limit on “Science that can be done” that we’re about to run out of, is there? How is the pie shrinking?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

@ Zhinxy – One of my dearest friends from high school initially wanted to pursue physics, but ended up switching to chemistry for a while due to the unwelcoming atmosphere for women in the physics field.

And then a few years later she switched again and ended up back in a physics-based PhD program, because physics is what she loves, and she’s good at it. She never regretted making the switch back.

If that’s what your daughter wants, she won’t be happy doing anything else. Plus as a bonus her very existance will end up making men like Meller unhappy.

zhinxy
9 years ago

Seriously though, Meller, I’m interested: Why all this grumbling at the managerialist left (And new establishment cold war right) and the military-industrial complex of the fifties and sixties, and then you suddenly start humming and singing the praises of its beat the russians, tame the atom, reach the MOOOOON, build the cars, super-state-funded science?

Is it because Rothbard didn’t really deal with that part? He can’t have handled everything.

zhinxy
9 years ago

If that’s what your daughter wants, she won’t be happy doing anything else.

Knowing her, doubly so. And making those sorts unhappy always a bonus! 🙂

ithiliana
9 years ago

Zhinxy: THe bonus is real. One way I measure success is by the disgruntled men who hate what I do–the only way I’d worry is if they approved of me! And I’m not even in a STEM field (though I write grants with them, ahahahahah) INTERDISCIPLINARY ALL THE WAY!

zhinxy
9 years ago

MWAHAHAHHAHA!

*Note to self, you will get that PHD and you too will be interdisciplinary.*

*But remember, zhinxy, you must beware the shrinking History Pie*

firebee
9 years ago

Anyone here watch Hoarders, by any chance? Meller reminds me of one of the more epic episodes of that show, the name of which I unfortunately forget — the one about the guy who was claiming he was a colonel, a preacher, a priest, and was knighted after saving a member of the royal family in Vietnam or something.

The dude has kind of an effete manner about him, is pretty much completely divorced from reality, and his house is stuffed with dolls. Also mice.

David K. Meller
David K. Meller
9 years ago

Zhinxi–

What does the child’s father say?

I suppose that reading about libertarian and anarchist ideas and writers is better than the collectivist slop that she would get in ‘publik skoolz”, but beyond that, I have no idea how well she will respond. As even your friend, Joan Kennedy Taylor observed, there does seem to be a sort of inherent bias against liberty and private property (libertarianism) in women! Your daughter may be different, but it is far too early to say. Men seem to prefer liberty, women seem to prefer security. Compare the size and scope of government in the USA, or any other country today, with the way it was when women first got the vote.

As far as “championing big government, and the military-industrial complex discussing achievement in physics, and in the physical sciences between 1910 and 1960, as opposed to 1960-today, I dare say that on average, the Military Industrial complex spent as much in any single decade on its boondoggles in the decades you cited approvingly hiring and promoting women as opposed to 1910-1960. The NON military applications of physics (and chemistry, metallurgy, and biochemistry) when science was overwhelmingly a MALE (Okay, with the exception of Japan, a White male endeavor) which had nothing to do with the Federal government was remarkable indeed.

Cinema, especially a way to reliably add sound to movies, the emergence of ‘technicolor”, the commercialization of–and universalization–of radio, by 1940, radio was commonplace in many households, even those of modest means, refrigeration, enabling long distance transportation of perishable medicines and foodstuffs, advances in telephony, where by 1940, a telephone was, at least in large cities, no longer a curiosity but quite common in commercial establishments, and even middle class households were starting to enjoy at least one ‘phone! No Military-Industrial complex here, although advances in long distance communication did play an important part in WWII–which would have contributed to advances in telecommunication whether that war was fought or not.Improved understanding of heat management, especially in improvements in production and quality of rubber, steel, and plastics also took place in those decades, in ways that have no real counterpart today, the “increased opportunities of women, and “women of color” notwithstanding.

I haven’t forgotten the ladies, however. Nylon, Rayon, and Dacron, and eventually polyester made inexpensive but rather fancy clothing readily and profitably available to the shopping set! Improved management of methane gas storage and distribution technology made installation of home ovens safe, practical and very common long before 1960! Once again, maybe support of big-government boondoggles played an indirect effect, but most of the science was commercial and privately funded and developed! Household cooking became safer and cleaner! I don’t expect you manboobzettes to know this, bu t a thank you to the men involved, even posthumously, would be nice!

As far as educating your daughter, I suppose that ideally, she should be prepared primarilyfor womanhood and marriage, but IF she is to be prepared for work outside the home, probably you could do worse than give her libertarian books to read. Science (if there is any left by the time she is adult, don’t forget that the notes cited by Ithiliana emphasised that academic “science” is now little more than an affirmative action boondoggle to “enhance the participation of women, and especially women of color” to the sciences, NOT the development of science or industry as a whole!

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Shorter Meller: tl;dr

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Meller reminds me of an elderly version of this.

Except all the toys are wearing frilly dresses, and at the end he wanks while staring at them.

firebee
9 years ago

Aha, found it — the above referenced hoarder is “Sir Patrick”.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

I guess the point I’m trying to make is that Meller’s like “YOU HATE KIDS AND CLEANING AND HOMESCHOOLING AND FAMILY, DON’T YOU?” and I’m like, “No, really, we want a lot of the same things, I just want to do it while fat and working outside the home.”

And, y’know, not to prove Meller right or anything, but I personally don’t want kids (although I generally like other people’s kids), and I think I’d go crazy if I had to be responsible for someone else’s homeschooling or keep the house spotless all the time (I do 90 percent of the cleaning in our house; I just don’t have the time to do it every day). But … that’s okay. It’s not just that “You hate kids and cleaning and homeschooling and family” isn’t true for all feminists; it’s also that it’s not an insult.

zhinxy
9 years ago

Joan was never my friend, and she never said the bias was inherent. There was and is a lot more going on with the spread of government than women’s suffrage can account for.

The child’s father was horribly abusive (I didn’t do my wifely duties well, I suppose?, and anyway, he’s a Democrat.) He provides no support for her, but I try to keep their relationship going as best as I can. I dont’ think he really cares what she reads.

Why should her “womanhood and marriage” be at odds with her being a scientist?

I’ll respond to a lot of the rest later, but really, Meller? Do you not notice that the computers we’re having this conversation on are really pretty spiffy? Just for a quick example of science still happening?

Also, you really, REALLY should read one of the greatest libertarian works so far this century, Kevin Carson’s http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com/
The Homebrew Industrial Revolution. It should help get you out of the Sloanist mass-production, Big Industry Atomic Age model of science and technology and wage labor, and help you see how a libertarian future can look.

Right now you sound kind of charmingly like a disneyland WORLD OF TOMORROW exibition circa when my mom was a kid… extolling the wonders of technology and all the weight off the housewives shoulders… only when you get to the part where the housewife is replaced by a robot, and this isn’t a dystopia, I realize it’s not so charming.

Sleep. Then I talk to you about Science. And History. And Ron Paul.

zhinxy
9 years ago

And, y’know, not to prove Meller right or anything, but I personally don’t want kids (although I generally like other people’s kids), and I think I’d go crazy if I had to be responsible for someone else’s homeschooling or keep the house spotless all the time (I do 90 percent of the cleaning in our house; I just don’t have the time to do it every day). But … that’s okay. It’s not just that “You hate kids and cleaning and homeschooling and family” isn’t true for all feminists; it’s also that it’s not an insult.

Amen!

(Also I love all of those thigns but the cleaning…)

zhinxy
9 years ago

Also, I dont entirely agree with kinsella here, but you can’t say there’s no libertarian case to be made for affirmative action:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/kinsella/kinsella11.html

David K. Meller
David K. Meller
9 years ago

I said that both fascinating womanhood and the surrendered wife were geared more to traditional Christian women (and their families) than others. I said that a more secular reader had to pick and choose ideas and advice that would be valid for HER. I didn’t say focus on the first somewhat goofy thing that you saw and then babble on to each other as if they (Andelin or Doyle) said nothing better!

There is no reason for example, why atheistic women, or plump women, for that matter, could not benefit from their wise counsel Who knows, you may even find a man who fancies Rubenesque ladies, and who is not all that fussy when it comes to impeccable neatness! There is NO reason at all why a pair of atheists can not love one anther and see their union as blessed, that is, as the most important thing in their lives, even if they don’t believe in G-d!

The matter of anxiety, bad temper, and perfectionism in the character of women who try to hard to assume the masculine role in the home and in life is common enough, with enough people, to damage a large number of relationships, married or not. If the price of “equality” is the loss of femininity and its allure and charm, then many men consider the price too high! You don’t have to be fundamentalist Christian (or Muslim, Jewish, or anything else) to understand this. TSW and/or FW can help you relax and enjoy life (and your womanhood) whether you are Christian or not, and for that matter, whether you are “pleasingly plump” or not!

Morchella
Morchella
9 years ago

@Pecunium “Human Genome, completely unmapped.”

The idea that women can’t advance science because ladybrains is so ridiculous. Molecular biology and biochemsitry are both fields that are advancing rapidly (to the point where introductory texts become obsolete within a couple of years), and biology is a famously lady-heavy field.

Don’t tell these guys that biology research often requires upper-level math. The poor dears might not be able to handle it.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
9 years ago

Every program is devoted to women’s empowerment, women’s liberation, women’s issues, women’s future, and so on. It has lobotomized women, but in the wrong damned direction!

I am watching something on the mythology of the Lord of the Rings and I am trying to see where it is promoting women’s empowerment, liberation, issues, future or anything about women. But there is nothing-right now they are discussing Beowulf which does have a woman in it but it is not about women.

Maybe because they occasionally have a woman talking on the show?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Lobotomizing women is good, but only if it makes them into fluffy housepets. If women become too educated, that counts as lobotomizing them. Thus says the man who thinks that women are innately bad at science.

Broseidon
Broseidon
9 years ago

KathleenB: No, we, it seems, are missing the point, REAL Women and REAL Men (which we aren’t, no matter what it might appear to look at our bodies) all want to live in the Mellerian Gender Utopia.

Intelligent people also all agree with him on Politics.

Since we are at variance, Q.E.D. we are not REAL People, ant lack intelligence. If we were either of those things, we’d agree with him.

Question Begging, anyone can do it, and everything is easier when a Scotsman does it.

But aren’t 90% of the regulars on this blog either queer, transgendered, or living kinky alternative lifestyles, or several of the above? There’s also a pretty uniform far-left vibe all around. I don’t know about intelligence, but I think it’s fair to say the views and opinions of the regulars here don’t necessarily reflect those of the population at large…

zhinxy
9 years ago

Well, perhaps, but we’re talking about MELLER’S views. I think the population at large or small is not going to dovetail with those.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Meller: Please face the fact that what you want is NOT what everyone else wants! And if it’s not totally obvious by now, what you want is REALLY not what people in this particular community want. So why don’t you fuck off and find a site full of quiverfull singles, all willing to rush joyfully to your side and tend to your every need (assuming their fathers approve, of course)?

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

But aren’t 90% of the regulars on this blog either queer, transgendered, or living kinky alternative lifestyles, or several of the above?

And there’s something wrong with any or all of those things?

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
9 years ago

Compare the size and scope of government in the USA, or any other country today, with the way it was when women first got the vote.

Maybe we should not tell DKM about Theodore Roosevelt who wanted to expand the power of government (and did) well before women got the vote. Or the rest of the Progressive movement.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Broseidon: Has anyone here said that their opinions represent those of the population as a whole? I doubt it. In fact, I seem to recall lots of people saying things like ‘this is only my opinion,’ and ‘your mileage may vary.’

darksidecat
9 years ago

zhinxy, your question about reading confuses the Meller. Meller does not think girls should be allowed to read at all, so it is a trick question to ask him what they should read.

zhinxy
9 years ago

Maybe we should not tell DKM about Theodore Roosevelt who wanted to expand the power of government (and did) well before women got the vote. Or the rest of the Progressive movement.”

If they had been women, they would have been even MORE big government, though. A man’s big governmentism is limited by his man-ness, just as a woman’s anarchism or libertarianism or small government liberalism or whatever is hampered by her woman-ness.

(And no, you don’t wanna know what Rand would have been like as a MAN! )

Also, if the state is not an essential feature of humankind, how can either gender be more or less statist? It’s like that “republican brain” vs. “democrat brain” nonsense. Because we’re totally wired for political categories that existed for SO LONG in our evolutionary history…

Jules
Jules
9 years ago

So am I correct in my understanding that Meller has actual dolls and apparently finds them sexually arousing?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Wait, won’t women need to be able to read in order to read cookbooks? Or are those going to just have pictures now?

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

darksidecat: Meller has told me that I need to stop reading ‘girly’ crap and start reading Real Books ™ – pre approved by Meller, of course.

zhinxy
9 years ago

zhinxy, your question about reading confuses the Meller. Meller does not think girls should be allowed to read at all, so it is a trick question to ask him what they should read.

I love how he grudgingly acknowledges it’s better than the crap she’ll read at public school, but he doesn’t know how it will affect her, I mean, she’s a GIRL, it’s gonna go right through her head.

Well, I am gonna make her read marx too. Who knows what I’m creating!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

I would refuse to let an impressionable child read Rand, not because of the ideas, but because they might mistakenly assume that her writing style was something to be imitated, and then all of their future college professors would hate me.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
9 years ago

And no, you don’t wanna know what Rand would have been like as a MAN!

Presumably just as overbearing and arrogant? And less weaselly about screwing around on his spouse?

zhinxy
9 years ago

Cassandrasays – There’s so many reasons, really… Keep Kids Off Rand!

Jules – So am I correct in my understanding that Meller has actual dolls and apparently finds them sexually arousing?

Yes. He has also mentioned special masturbatory techniques.

Jules
Jules
9 years ago

Huh. Ok, then.

Molly Ren
9 years ago

DKM wrote,

“I said that both fascinating womanhood and the surrendered wife were geared more to traditional Christian women (and their families) than others. I said that a more secular reader had to pick and choose ideas and advice that would be valid for HER. I didn’t say focus on the first somewhat goofy thing that you saw and then babble on to each other as if they (Andelin or Doyle) said nothing better!

“There is no reason for example, why atheistic women, or plump women, for that matter, could not benefit from their wise counsel Who knows, you may even find a man who fancies Rubenesque ladies, and who is not all that fussy when it comes to impeccable neatness! There is NO reason at all why a pair of atheists can not love one anther and see their union as blessed, that is, as the most important thing in their lives, even if they don’t believe in G-d!

“The matter of anxiety, bad temper, and perfectionism in the character of women who try to hard to assume the masculine role in the home and in life is common enough, with enough people, to damage a large number of relationships, married or not. If the price of “equality” is the loss of femininity and its allure and charm, then many men consider the price too high! You don’t have to be fundamentalist Christian (or Muslim, Jewish, or anything else) to understand this. TSW and/or FW can help you relax and enjoy life (and your womanhood) whether you are Christian or not, and for that matter, whether you are “pleasingly plump” or not!”

So what Meller’s really objecting to is that feminism makes women… perpetually crabby? That’s it?

Molly Ren
9 years ago

Also, I’m with Bee: I’m also in the camp of people who don’t *ever* want to raise kids. I’d rather write or own a business. But I also tend to think of housecleaning and kid raising as a HUMAN thing, rather than a female thing… one of the people who most *wants* to raise kids in my social circle is a guy!

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
9 years ago

Well cranky people are kind of hard to deal with.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

And this is yet another reason why Meller can’t find the fluffy slave of his dreams – he’s just too crabby (and too shouty).

Be more fluffy and cute, Meller! The man-bots with the kitty ears that will replace you are waiting in the wings if you do not comply.

Molly Ren
9 years ago

It’s just… we’re treated to pages and pages of how we’re not being womanly enough, cute enough, fluffy enough, and then he just talks about how *grumpy* we are?

zhinxy
9 years ago

Nevertheless, the dubious legal status of prostitutes (and sometimes even strippers or party girls) in many areas make this a high risk activity for many men!

… See the thing is Meller, I’m an ally who works for Sex Worker’s Rights, which are human rights. That means listening to what sex workers want and need. It means putting the voices of non-sex-workers last, and the words of men wanting “discreet” dead last. The thing is, your “non-marriageable women in the brothels” thing is not why I want to decriminalize sex work. Also, why can’t a sex worker or party girl BE a housewife?

Horror of horrors! I know!

…Seriously how much libertarianism are you actually familiar with if you’re so fussy and brothel-model about a simple thing like sex work? Much less that you think coercion.. NO NO, SORRY, NOT COERCION… just magically her family puts her there! is going to be involved.

Why is it that in just about every measure of “things you know and are familiar with if you are a libertarian who actually does anything, as opposed to posting on the internet about how feminism sucks and ron paul is great” you don’t seem all that on it? No knowledge of the leftist anti-war movement? No sense of the sex worker’s rights movement? No idea of the urban homesteading and greening movements? List goes on and on.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

I didn’t notice that. Being a party girl is dubiously legal? Um, maybe in Saudi Arabia…

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Ithilliana: I think leaving it to beaver is against everything Meller stands for. *rimshot*

David K. Meller
David K. Meller
9 years ago

The Progressive movement, Prohibition, Greenbackism, and later Free Silver,feminism (the sufferage movement) and eugenics (Margaret Sanger of Planned Parenthood fame) and Theodore R were not all explicitly feminist, but there is little doubt of a close and sustained association. To say that Progressivism would never have existed without feminism is probably stretching things a bit, but it would be foolish indeed to ignore how political women accelerated the growth of government, both on the Federal level, and on State and local levels.

This doesn’t PROVE that women are inherently collectivist, but it certainly doesn’t disprove it either! The embryonic “Publik skoolz” movement, prohibition, women’s sufferage, eugenics, with Planned Parenthood, and the anti-immigrant and anti-Catholic movements of the day weren’t exclusively feminist by any means, but to say that women didn’t have a large, growing, and decisive role in their growth and metastizing of this abominable collectivism upon the American economy and culture in both Church (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) and State, as WOMEN, would totally distort the history of the period! If American women(?) didn’t cause ‘progressivism’ in all of its horrid reality–and I’m not only talking votes and officeholding here–they did nothing to stop it!

zhinxy
9 years ago

Why are so few men libertarians? Seriously, why is our movement so tiny?

zhinxy
9 years ago

If men naturally desire liberty, why aren’t our ranks swollen? Sure, we’re “mostly men” I guess, but why so few men?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Aw, is the angry dinosaur upset again?

Progressivism is a good thing, Meller. It’s just not good for you, since as mentioned you are a dinosaur. In 100 years or so people will look back and marvel at the fact that men like you ever existed. And then they’ll bless progress for the fact that the rest of the world eventually moved beyond such archaic nonsense.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
9 years ago

Oddly enough DKM is ignoring why women got involved in things like the Progressive movement. Or the temperance movement.