So John the Other has responded to my post about A Voice for Men’s “bounty” on the makers of the SCUM video. It’s a fairly unhinged rant, even by his standards. Here’s the money quote:
It’s a bizarre bit of circular logic: if some deranged asshole literally kills one or more of the videomakers, this is proof that the Swedish justice system isn’t working, which therefore justifies the deranged asshole’s actions. So the existence of vigilante violence justifies vigilante violence that justifies vigilante violence.
Since when is making a video a capital crime?
After all this, John rather bizarrely claims that “[u]nlike David Futrelle, I do not and will not lend myself to the support of violence, or indeed, of murder.”
That’s because, according to his daft logic, shooting the videomakers would count as “self defense,” because evidently someone posting a video on YouTube that you don’t like is equivalent to someone coming at you with a knife.
While challenging AVfM’s “bounty” — without actually defending the video in any way — apparently means that I support murder. Go figure.
But dwelling too much on the specifics of this one case is to miss the larger point. A Voice for Men has essentially set itself up as a sort of antifeminist Witchfinder General. In the 1968 cult film of that name, you may remember, the corrupt Witchfinder tested whether the accused were witches by lowering them into water; those who floated were judged guilty, and burned at the stake. Those who sank were innocent, but dead.
Paul Elam and his sidekick John have a similar approach. They intend to do feminists harm, to “fuck their shit up,” regardless of what they’ve done or said. None of those who have been placed in the Register-Her “registry” as “bigots” deserve to be smeared or harassed (or put on the phony “registry” in the first place). But if you look at what they are ostensibly there for, well, you’ll discover that it matters not at all to Elam whether they sink or float. The point is to harass feminists; almost any excuse will do.
One of those on the “registry,” a radical feminist who posts online as Vliet Tiptree , has indeed said some fairly vile things about the male gender; she is the only one who might conceivably be described as a “bigot.” But others are there on trumped up “charges” based on highly tendentious readings of some of their writing; it’s clear that they’ve been targeted mainly because they have been publicly critical of the men’s rights movement.
Meanwhile, another of the alleged feminist bigots is not a feminist at all, but rather a traditional-minded “mom blogger” who aroused Elam’s fury by saying that she didn’t want male daycare volunteers taking her daughter to the bathroom, and for suggesting (incorrectly) that men make up 99% of abusers. (She has since apologized, but remains on the “registry.”)
And one recent candidate for inclusion, a feminist blogger whom Elam has pledged to “stalk,” seems to have made it on Elam’s naughty list simply because she has helped to highlight how pervasive harassment of women and feminists is online. Complain about harassment; get harassed. But Elam’s “critiques” of her are all suspiciously vague. It’s not clear if he has read even a single one of her blog posts. Nonetheless, he promises her that
by the time we are done you will wax nostalgic over the days when all you had to deal with was someone expressing a desire to fuck you up your shopworn ass.
In a post from some months back, Elam offered a similarly psychosexually charged justification for his campaign to “Fuck Their Shit Up.” Directly addressing the “feminazi scumbags reading this right now,” he declared:
I am not going to stop. You see, I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage. I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.
Let’s repeat that last bit for emphasis:
the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.
Does anyone still doubt that the aim of A Voice for Men and Register-Her.com in publishing personal information of their enemies is to intimidate – indeed, to terrorize?
Does anyone still doubt that their campaign is driven by hate?
Does anyone still doubt that they don’t give a shit if their actions cause someone to be physically assaulted or even killed?
“I’m not sure if you are the internet stalker kind or not. It sounds like no, but on the other hand a lot of replies seem very angry.”
Angry, sure. But not “let’s find this gjdj’s real name and location so something bad can happen to him!”.
GDGD: I didn’t see your post before I posted mine–I’m glad to see it but I’d rather see more of a direct condemnation by name and without qualifying it with “I just hope you are equally enraged…” because it still seems more about you wanting to attack feminists than actually you know condemn men by name, etc. Weak, wishy washy, not really that strong, but better than nothing I suppose.
So where’s your proof of feminists doing what Elam and Co are doing or are you just blowing air out your ass?
Or,why not shut up, wait until a feminist organization does this, and see what we do instead of preaching at us?
10:45 a.m. GDGD flounces away.
Starting countdown until he returns……
There is no way in hell that people here would support e-stalking and attempted intimidation of the video makers if the situation were reversed. This is going much further than just naming those who made the video. The intent is to gather as much information on them as possible for the purpose of intimidation and to put the video makers in fear for their safety because they created a video that AVfM deem offensive.
I really don’t get the outrage over the video anyway. It’s just an uncreative and tasteless piece of shock-humor designed to stir up controversy and publicity for their play. The mentality of the MR extremists is similar to that of the self-described Christians who tried to destroy Serrano’s “Piss-Christ”, the Islamic extremists who threaten cartoonists and Scientology’s attempt to stalk and gather information on the creators of South Park after they made an episode lampooning Scientology.
@ithiliana
“So show me ONE feminist site that is posting the names and personal information of men (I don’t count the “hollaback project” which takes pictures of men that harass women on the street and post them which has made a lot of men scream bloody murder — though I don’t see them screaming about “hot chicks of Occupy Wall Street” blog). Hollaback does not involve posting any personal information.”
So posting a picture isn’t personal information?
Doesn’t every MSM outlet post the information of a man who is merely accused by a woman while protecting her name?
Isn’t the sexual registry a State tool which lists the personal information of a man on the word of a woman?
The feminist site is the State/MSM/Corporate complex unified against individual men.
And on more thing. What does a video about gleefully shooting a man in the head for being a man. And then celebrating by doing your part, have to do with equality?
Bee – There’s definitely women who take pride in going “I’m not like those other women! I don’t gossip or nag and I take care of my own problems! Like a man! It’s too bad other women aren’t as sensible as me!”
As for the Assscat guy, he confessed to actual violence, not distasteful opinions. And he also didn’t get stalked or threatened; he got reported to the cops.
Was I the only one who had to double check that it really WAS Ullere who just carried on a conversation that was both intelligent and reasonable…? In the previous thread all it was was babblebabbleboringtrollramble. WHAT’S GOING ON.
Yes, that was my point. Sorry if that was unclear.
@NWOSlave:
Erm no. People who already know you would recognize you, yeah, but random strangers who’re pissed off would not be able to hunt you down. Preeeetty big difference there.
No. In your mind, yes, but in reality, no not at all. Also people were asking for examples of FEMINIST sites doing this, not MSM. Oh wait, Big Daddy and all that, right? Why am I even trying.
And finally
You’re right, what does it have to do with equality? But more importantly, why the crap are you even asking this? I don’t think anyone here has said anything that even implies that video is pro-equality or anything. Pretty sure absolutely every manboobz poster has said that it’s a tasteless video that is not at all feminist. It wasn’t even aiming to be, seeing as it’s an ad for a play, as so many people have pointed out. So I don’t even know what answer you’re looking for, or expect to hear. Care to explain…?
NWO: Nope, I don’t consider posting a picture taken in a public space without personal contact information, etc. (not even a name) to be making it possible to track someone down and attack them.
After all, if those men didn’t want their pictures on the internet, they shouldn’t be out in public, sexually harassing women in front of God and everybody, but at home making sammiches!
Hear hear!!
“Was I the only one who had to double check that it really WAS Ullere who just carried on a conversation that was both intelligent and reasonable…? In the previous thread all it was was babblebabbleboringtrollramble. WHAT’S GOING ON.”
Well, it is Thankgiving, so it’s probably break ti- Oh, wait, that’s the U.S..
Yeah, what IS going on?
@MRAL:
I think that’s what he’s counting on, actually. He’s aiming, not only to intimidate people he sees as opponents of the MRA movement, but also potential threats within it. That seems really cult-like to me, quite frankly. How could he find you, though? Does he have any access to your real information?
Look at what one of the comments said:
“It is an unfamiliar joy that brightens up my day when I see a man finally taking these cunts on, and informing them justly of the future that awaits them. This is how those Jews in Warsaw must have felt when they banded together after so many years of being hunted, and shot Nazis.”
…Yeah, more Jew and Nazis comparisons. Seriously, why can’t these assholes realize how fucked up it is to compare the men’s rights “movement” (I’m referring specifically to the inactive members who just whine on the Internet instead of acting helping men, hence the quotations) to some sort of heroic justice that takes on feminism- oh wait, I mean “Nazism.”
Hell, even the Westboro Baptist Church can’t be compared to Nazis. Do I hate those fuckers? Yes, because they protest at soldier’s funerals. Would I call them Nazis? …NO! Why? Because they didn’t commit genocide, and neither did feminists (and certainly not random ones they’re apparently “stalking” on the Internet).
Fuck those feminist/Nazi analogies. It’s such shit.
@ Arielle Shander Yeah godwins rule is pretty common in all groups who have a named enemy.
“My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don’t even need to shrug. I simply don’t care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don’t matter.”
Marilyn French; The Woman’s Room.
Ullere: The “named enemy” of most feminist movements today isn’t “men”, though. It’s kyriarchy.
Even in 1977 (when the Woman’s Room was published) there was no unified feminist movement that agreed that “men” were the enemy or compared men to nazis.
@Ullere,
You realize that Marilyn French quote is from a character in a novel, right? You know, fiction?
@Ullere, you seem to have found one of those “list of feminist quotes” that float around the mrasphere. You should probably know that it’s dicey using those, since none of them are gonna be new to any feminist that’s been on the internet a while.
Though I could use a good Mackinnon misattribution for ole times sake. Play the old anti-feminist song, Ullere…
In the sense that The Producers promotes nazism.
Women are the minority, you kool-aid stuffed twit. And we already know how violence from the minority against hte majority is treated; it’s a horrible upending of the social order.
The problem isn’t really any individual instance, much like say, The Bechdel Test. It’s that misogyny is overwhelming and the norm; a lack thereof is seen as abnormal.
Re: Sexes:
Actually some mockery of trans/queerphobia occurs, though not very much. As to the one you wanted to hear, “misandry”, because it barely exists and isn’t a widespread problem that restricts men.
Re: Sexuality
If you want the majority to be soothed again, you ain’t gonna find it on this count much, but there is some mockery of heterosexism. For instance, http://manboobz.com/2011/11/12/lesbianism-by-numbers-courtesy-of-the-mens-rights-subreddit-plus-kitties/
“Fuck those feminist/Nazi analogies. It’s such shit.”
Indeed. As Vox Day astutely pointed out, calling a feminist a ‘feminazi’ is an insult to National Socialism.
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2005/09/mailvox-insult-to-nazis-everywhere.html
Vox Day? Wow, this IS an anti-feminist nostalgia party! Are you gonna mention Dworkin now?
“Any rational human being would harbor more respect for a Nazi than for a feminist.”
The fact that MRAs love Nazis is….