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“A man is not being respected if the woman he is with has spent her youth, beauty and fertility on someone else.” Um, what?

Vile strumpet! You'll get your comeuppance!

Manosphere dudes – MRAs, MGTOWers, PUAs and whatever other acronyms they will eventually invent – love to tell themselves little “just so” stories about women. One of their favorite stories is the story of the Bad Boy Cock Carousel.

The gist of it: Women in their twenties are at the height of their physical beauty. So they act like entitled bitches, sleeping with every Bad Boy and Alpha Asshole there is and ignoring the humble, honest, hardworking “nice guy” betas silently pining for them.

But once these mean girls hit the age of 27 or so, they suddenly become ugly monsters, and the bad boys stop returning their calls. So then the evil ladies try to glom on to the nearest beta male in an attempt to marry him and steal all of his money.

But the beta males don’t want none of that used-up pussy, and so they Go Their Own Way and everyone ends up forever alone. Or the guys learn “game” and start banging the hotties. Or they just go back to posting sammich jokes on Reddit. I think these are all supposed to be happy endings, because at least the evil bitches get their comeuppance.

Recently, someone posted a n especially creepy version of this Manosphere fairy tale in the comments here; it turned out to have been cut and pasted from a comment on Roissy/Heartiste’s “game” blog by a guy who calls himself PhillyBoy81. It’s long; I trimmed it a little for space.

“[A]lpha males” are doing all the rest of us a favor in the long run. They operate very much like short sellers in the dating market, exposing fraud and helping to discover the true prices of commodities (women).

Yep, we’re on the express train to Doucheytown.

Let’s take a 21-year old chick who’s between a 7/8 (cute to pretty. …  She can pretty much get sex whenever she wants it and with whomever she wants to have it with. And that is ultimately her downfall.

Young women (and some older ones) have an overinflated sense of the value of their vaginas. I mean, they have Wharton MBAs paying for exotic trips and they’re drinking Cosmos in the VIP with the Wizards.

Apparently this is just how women in their early twenties live. Who knew?

Since they are able to get such easy access to “alpha” dick, it follows logically that they should also have access to “alpha” wealth, marriage, and the lifestyle that accompanies all of that, right?

Wrong. See, when women gain this enormous sense of pussy power, they swing for the fences. …  So, the cute guy with a 3.8 GPA, but no car? Nope, not good enough. The nice-looking pre-med student? “Nah, I’ll just get back to him later. I heard Jude Law’s hotter brother is transferring here this semester.”

This had me worried for a second, but I looked it up: Jude Law does not have a “hotter brother,” or indeed a brother at all, which is good news for all straight men of equal or lesser hotness than Jude Law.

Anyway, back to the evil women:

They invariably end up overplaying their hand. They chase these players looking to get a ring, and then that ring never comes. So now they’re 27. It’s a good thing she kept that pre-med Johns Hopkins student in her back pocket just in case things didn’t work out with the player, right?

Wrong again. In a vacuum, women would have their way. Men beg for sex. Women decide whether to give it to them (and for most guys, they will not give it to you). But luckily, we don’t live in a vacuum. We live in the real world with social constraints, and there are two that work distinctly to a man’s advantage: reputation and age. …

Ladies don’t think … we won’t remember your bitchiness. And don’t think we won’t remember those guys who you ran behind like a cum bucket.

Hmm. I’m pretty sure the only place buckets are gifted with mobility is in old Disney cartoons.

We remember. And we punish.

When a man sleeps with 100 chicks, he’s a stud. When a woman sleeps with JUST ONE guy, that eliminates you as wifey material to ALL of his friends.  …

Apparently penises have a sort of reverse-Midas Touch thing going on: every woman who touches one turns into a filthy, used-up slut.

The height of a woman’s value, in terms of her value as a long term partner, is around the age of 27. That is the praecipice.  The older she gets, the more her singlehood gets scrutinized by men. Why the hell is she still single? Who’s cock has she been sucking all these years?

Clearly that is the first question every straight man should ask himself whenever he sees a single woman older than the age of 27. (Just make sure you don’t actually ask this question out loud; it doesn’t go over well.)

[L]et’s face it, what virile, successful bachelor wants to entertain a 29 or 30 year old as wifey potential. She’s going to want to become a baby factory right away and rip away the last vestiges of your freedom. I don’t think so. It’s now my time to swing for the fences and bang some of these 21 year olds that I couldn’t bang in college.

Hello creepy older dude lurking in the shadows at the frat party!

In conclusion, a woman’s value is really defined by the type of man who puts a ring on her finger, not the type of guy who will fuck her. It takes a lot of women a long time to understand this, and thus, they overplay their hand. If it wasn’t for the players dogging them out, these women would not get a sense of their true value and start to seek out men who fit within their price range.

It’s all about market equilibrium, yo! SCIENCE!

So that’s the story. It’s a stupid story. It’s not a true story. But it’s the story that manosphere dudes, like young children, want to hear over and over and over.

But I haven’t even gotten to the best part. Our pal MarkyMark, an excitable and somewhat addled Man Going His Own Way, reposted PhillyBoy81’s comment on his blog. In the comments there (as Man Boobz commenter Wetherby pointed out) we find this little gem:

A man is not being respected if the woman he is with has spent her youth, beauty and fertility on someone else.

Yep, that’s right. I’m just going to repeat that, because, wow.

A man is not being respected if the woman he is with has spent her youth, beauty and fertility on someone else.

All women older than 27 or so who date or marry men are disrespecting these men because … they are older than 27. Apparently women age out of spite. Maturation is misandry!

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hellkell
hellkell
12 years ago

I’m sorry, Viscaria, I’ve been there.

Thanks for the crust tips! I did manage a chocolate-coffee gingerbread yesterday. It’ll be served with fresh whipped cream later, can’t wait!

Viscaria
Viscaria
12 years ago

That sounds delicious, I’m totally stealing your dessert in spirit. Oh, and ilithiana, I forgot to mention that I’m totally behind the moar pie movement. I will totally campaign for moar signatures on a moar pie petition.

And thanks, hellkell, for the kind words. It means a lot. I’m bigger than my feelings! They don’t get to decide what my grades will be, when I get to see my friends, or when I get to eat delicious pies, damn it! :p

Viscaria
Viscaria
12 years ago

ithiliana, rather. Oops!

ithiliana
12 years ago

@Viscaria: depression totally sucks–in all ways. I’m v. lucky to be on a med that helps.

*hoping for moar pie in your future*

One of my friends on LiveJournal just posted her All Pie Thanksgiving–it was…amazing.

I cannot do piecrust to save my life, but I love pies (my mother makes the BEST lemon meringue pie in the multiverse, and I shamelessly plead for it whenever I visit her!).

hellkell
hellkell
12 years ago

Viscaria, here’s the recipe (none of us here really like pears, so we just leave that out):

http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/Chocolate-Coffee-Gingerbread-with-Hazelnut-Poached-Pears-350813

hellkell
hellkell
12 years ago

Whoa–All Pis Thanksgiving? I can get behind THAT.

hellkell
hellkell
12 years ago

Pie. Jesus. What I typed sounds like another thing entirely. XD

Dracula
Dracula
12 years ago

If you feel so inclined, you could always cheat and buy pre-made crusts and make the filling yourself.

I’d like to try my hand at pie one of these days. I’ve mostly baked bread, cake and muffins.

Viscaria
Viscaria
12 years ago

Pie crust recipe posted in the forums!

ozymandias42
12 years ago

As someone who has been both very romantically successful and not romantically successful at all, whole lot of getting a partner is pure, blind, shitty luck. There are some things you can do (get more friends, avoid being creepy, cultivate traits that a particular subculture finds attractive, ask people out), but a lot of it is just luck.

Which is one of the reasons your sexual success has almost nothing to do with your worth as a person.

BlackBloc: High-fives for cuddle buddies! My cuddle buddies are the best. 🙂 Poly may or may not increase the amount of sex you’re having, but by God it definitely increases the amount of snuggles.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

“BlackBloc: High-fives for cuddle buddies! My cuddle buddies are the best. Poly may or may not increase the amount of sex you’re having, but by God it definitely increases the amount of snuggles.”

Snuggling lots of people can admittedly be a bit more complicated if you’re monogamous, but I promise that it too can be done! (It just requires really good communication skills so that no one gets the wrong idea and then gets their feelings hurt.) Also, notice how many commenters here are seeking out and getting lots and lots of cuddles – we’re an affectionate lot, really, which is amusing given the MRA tendency to depict feminists as evil hellbeasts intent on spreading misery. Lots of the people I cuddle are men – was I not supposed to do that?

BTW, what is everyone having for Thanksgiving, for those in the US? I’m just about to head out to a friends’s place (where there will be cuddles) to have roasted pork loin, lots of tasty sides, and floureless chocolate torte.

Holly Pervocracy
12 years ago

I posted my menu on the Thanksgiving post. 🙂

hellkell
hellkell
12 years ago

I posted mine on the t-day post too, but hell, this is a better derail than Brandon’s b.s.

Lyn
Lyn
12 years ago

Anonymous: “feminists have been telling me for years that women can sense from miles away if a man is an asshole and thus stay away.”

I think you’re confusing “feminists” with “not-feminists”. No-one can *sense* whether other people are good or bad. The idea that women can tell who’s likely to rape them is, like, the basis of most victim blaming bullshit that feminists try to fight.

Pterygotus
Pterygotus
12 years ago

Pterygorus: Really? I mostly keep my sex life out of NSWATM, I thought.
I was talking about your comments here, actually.

Also, it’s “Pterygotus”.

pecunium
12 years ago

re pie crust: Knead your butter, in cool/cold water before cutting it into the flour.

Use as little COLD (I mean it, float ice cubes in it for twenty minutes first) water as you can get away with when converting the flour/butter to dough.

Rest it, in the fridge, for at least 30 minutes.

Roll it quickly.

Viscaria
Viscaria
12 years ago

I take my shortening directly out of the freezer. Cold! Cold is the secret to pie! Well, cold and love <3

Cara
Cara
12 years ago

The major problem people can have with having relationships with other people who have had long histories with previous partners which were tragically ended by death (as I assume in the case of your parents) i.e. the love was still alive at time of parting, is that you’ll have to share your partner as it were with the memory of their previous partner, who may even be higher in their affections than you. Ex. the case of Queen II and The King and the dearly departed Queen I In The Game of Thrones.

Oh, sweetheart.

Video games and manga are NOT REAL. They’re fantasy.

Relationships in media like that follow set patterns and tropes that are intended to appeal to teenagers. All the new and confusing feelings, combined with seeing failed adult relationships and the youthful idealism that sees things in black and white terms, create a mindset that makes a young person easily led. And it’s always easier to use youthful rebellion and anger to lead a kid right back into the status quo (and sell them more video games that are about equally simplistic, standard themes) than it is to get them to really, really think about what would make them happy over the long term of their lives.

It’s a big world out there. If you just hang on long enough to get out of high school you’ll see that on your own. But if you waste your time searching for a fleeting sense of power over others instead of really developing your own self, it’s going to be dismal for you. Boys and girls both have to learn this, so I hope you don’t feel like I’m picking on you.

It’s going to be okay. Just hang on. Find people who are actually nice to you (and to everyone else) to hang out with. It helps alleviate that idea that the world is crap.

Anonumous
Anonumous
12 years ago

@Lyn

“I think you’re confusing “feminists” with “not-feminists”.”
So Amanda Marcotte and Melissa McEwan are not-feminists now? Good to know.

“No-one can *sense* whether other people are good or bad. The idea that women can tell who’s likely to rape them is, like, the basis of most victim blaming bullshit that feminists try to fight.”

You were the one to start talking about rape, not me. I was refering to feminists handing out advice to Nice Guys ™ (sic), telling them that women can sense that they are manipulative bastards and thus shun them.

ithiliana
12 years ago

Anon: I was refering to feminists handing out advice to Nice Guys ™ (sic), telling them that women can sense that they are manipulative bastards and thus shun them.

Citation damn well needed.

Because the stance as far as I know is telling Nice Guys TM (do you KNOW the feminist definition for that?) that the whole point of “Schrodinger’s rapist” is that women can never in fact tell whether or not any individual man is a rapist, and thus the complaining Nice Guys should not be whining that the women they approach in public who do not fall into their arms or onto their prick are mean go them–and that said women should only shun “thug rapists” who can easily be told from Nice Guy.

That is, I think you’re confusing who holds which rhetorical position, or do you live in Opposite land?

pecunium
12 years ago

ithliiana: I think he’s conflating one thing (Schrödinger’s Rapist), with the idea that beig a slimy sort of woman hater is, all in all, the sort of thing women pick up on.

Those are both, more or less, true, and have nothing to do with each other.

SaruGoku
SaruGoku
12 years ago

Anonymous said at 9.25am:

“And on a personal level, why care what these MGTOW say, feminists have been telling me for years that women can sense from miles away if a man is an asshole and thus stay away. Thus MGTOW and odd opinions about women shouldn’t be a problem since women should stay away from them.”

Who were these feminists you were talking to? Are women supposed to be telepathic or something and pick up vibes from rapists and abusers? That’s just more victim-blaming bullshit and I doubt very much that you picked that up from a feminist. MGTOW, Spearhead, or some other MRA site, yes, because blaming victims for being attacked is their usual MO but from a feminist? I doubt that sincerely. If you did pick it up from a feminist site please post a link.

I suggest that if you’re genuine and even remotely interested in the subject that you read Starling’s excellent paper “Schrodinger’s Rapist”. Just Google it and you’ll get thousands of links.

If you were actually talking about women avoiding “nice guys” that’s a different matter. Most women avoid them because they know from previous association or acquaintance that they are manipulative and whingy, they’re just trying to get into her jeans and that they can often turn nasty if refused. This isn’t some kind of magical intuition that women have, it’s simple caution based on knowing the man in question and his reputation.

zhinxy
12 years ago

I try to think how my own story fits into this worldview. I spent the bulk of my 20’s married to an abusive spouse – Bad boy asshole? Or Alpha – I supported him financially for much of the marriage, and he’d seem like any other friendly nerd if you didn’t know what goes on behind closed doors – Or I was a feminist bitch?(I actually wouldn’t say my ex is a misogynist, just abusive to partner me who happened to be a woman, btw) We have a daughter. Fertility wasted?

Youth wasted?, well, I tend to think I should have done better, but what am I supposed to be doing now? I tend to turn down relationship offers because I’m just not ready – Bitterness? Does none of this matter because I’m in my thirties now? I honestly don’t really want to hear the answers, but you can fill me in, local MRAs.

zhinxy
12 years ago

He also doesn’t pay child support, and shock and horror, I haven’t pursued legal action!

Anonymous
Anonymous
12 years ago

@SaruGoku

I have read Schroedinger’s rapist, several times. I even showed it to some friends of mine with degrees in clinical psychiatry.

Short story. If a man said he was so afraid of his enviroment that he felt uncomfortable leaving his home without carrying a fully loaded assault rifle he would be labeled as a paranoid psychotic.
Food for thought.