A Voice for Men, one of the most influential and popular Men’s Rights websites, is now offering a $1000 “bounty” for anyone able to track down the personal information of several Swedish women involved in a tasteless video advertising a theater production based on Valarie Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. As the anonymous poster calling himself John the Other – the second-in-command at AVfM – put it in a posting yesterday (emphasis in original):
We are asking for the full legal names, home addresses, places of employment, email addresses and contact phone numbers of the women and man who produced and starred in the video described above. We will pay 1000 dollars to any individual who provides and confirms this information, to be paid either directly to themselves or to a charity of their choice.
John explains that this information will be posted on the AVfM-affiliated site Register-Her.com, an “offenders database” that is being used to vilify individual feminists and “Fuck Their Shit Up,” as AVfM head honcho Paul Elam likes to put it. John notes that Regsiter-Her.com also intends to post the “government identification numbers [and] drivers licences” of the women they are able to identify.
John admits plainly that posting such information may put the physical safety of these women at risk from vigilante violence. As he puts it (emphasis mine):
Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.
The comments posted on the article at AVfM suggest that such “retributive” violence is a real possibility. Indeed, here’s the very first comment (which currently has 17 upvotes from readers of the site):
A commenter called Xnomolos, in another upvoted comment, adds:
i would love to hunt down these women myself.
JinnBottle responds to this comment by advising “all men to start carrying guns.”
The commenters on AVfM have already uncovered the identities of all of the women involved in the video. The blogger Fidelbogen has been the most active internet detective so far.
There is no question that the video itself is offensive, and designed to provoke. You can see it here; I’m not going to embed it on this site. If you don’t want to watch it: it depicts a young woman shooting a man in the head for no reason. Afterwards the woman and her gleeful, giggling accomplices do a victory dance, then lick the blood from the dead man’s head. A message at the end urges viewers to “Do Your Part.”
Every feminist I know who has seen the video has been appalled by it. I’m appalled by it. It’s hateful, and it’s wrong.
But John the Other, and the other commenters on AVfM, claim that it is more than this: that that the video of the staged murder, intended to provide publicity for a theater production based on Solanas’ notorious SCUM manifesto, is quite literally an open call for the murder of men. As John the Other puts it:
Open advocation of murder cannot be allowed in a civil society, without that society devolving into a culture of brutal violence.
Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.
Is the video a literal call to murder? Is it, as one AVfM commenter puts it, evidence of a “conspiracy to commit mass murder?” No. Violence and murder have been dramatized in the theater since its beginnings. No one accuses Sophocles of advocating fratricide and incest, though both are dealt with in his play Oedipus Rex. No one accuses Shakespeare of advocating mass murder, though many of his most famous plays have body counts that put many horror films to shame.
Does the tag line at the end of the video – “do your part” – transform the video from a depiction of murder into an open call for it? No. The “threat,” such as it is, is vague; it’s not aimed at any specific individuals. It might be seen as akin to someone wearing a t-shirt that says “kill ‘em all, let God sort them out” – tasteless and offensive, but not a literal threat. “Kill ‘Em All” is actually the name of Metallica’s first album. While a lot of people see James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich et al as pompous idiots, they have not been jailed for conspiracy to commit mass murder. That would be ridiculous.
Someone claiming to have been involved in the SCUM-inspired theatrical production in question has posted several detailed comments on AVfM, explaining that those involved in the production are “not out to get you” and that the video itself was “meant as a viral “wtf?!” to give attention to both the questions that it raises and the play itself.”
By contrast, AVfM is targeting specific individuals, and intends to offer information that would allow anyone intent on doing them harm to quite literally track them to their homes and workplaces. Those fantasizing about killing these woman are not simply making a joke along the lines of “women, can’t live with ‘em; can’t kill ‘em.” They are fantasizing about killing real people, and providing would-be evil-doers maps to their doors.
AVfM is an American site, in English; these specific women live in Sweden. While it is a real possibility, it seems unlikely that anyone reading the site will literally find and murder any of those involved in the SCUM production. At least I hope that this does not come to pass.
I don’t believe that either Paul Elam or John the Other literally wants any feminist to be killed. The real intent behind AVfM’s publishing people’s personal information, it seems clear, is to intimidate feminist writers and activists into shutting up, to make clear that if they post something that offends the internet vigilantes at AVfM they will face the possibility of some deranged individual quite literally showing up at their door intent on doing them harm.
Paul Elam and John the Other claim that they’re not advocating violence. But they are playing a dangerous game here. If some deranged individual, inspired by the hyperbolic anti-feminist rhetoric on AVfM, and armed with information provided by “Register-Her.com,” murders or otherwise harms a feminist blogger or activist or video maker, Elam and his enablers will have blood on their hands. As will those MRAs who continue to publicly support and/or link to AVfM and/or Register-Her.com.
This is not the way a legitimate rights group deals with those who disagree with them. This is what hate groups do.
Oddly enough, my view of a perfect world doesn’t anywhere involve people being beaten without their consent.
It does involve wool though. I like wool. It smells like sheep.
@NWO:
You see feminists might say they are appalled at this video, but it wont get called out by any major feminist blog/website. Even David took the predictable feminist angle. He could have made an article about the video, why it is horrible and call out feminists that support or agree with the video. But no, he took the typical “Look what the MRA’s are doing now” angle. The video is merely there to highlight the fact that Paul Elam is paying a bounty for any information about the creators/actors of that video. David is basically saying the bounty is more vile than the misandry in the video.
Do you understand the difference between a criminal conviction, a civil verdict, and a private disciplinary committee?
*************
Did U lern all that at yor uni-vars-ah-teee? Yor so smort and ed-yeu-ma-kay-tid!
and as usual when NWO is confronted with his hypocrisy and attempt to twist people’s words and views around, he runs off. The question now is why does he keep coming back?
You guys have a lot of patience to put up with him.
Because MRAs can’t reasonably get anything resembling serious misandry out of anyone who si both famous and alive?
I don’t even get that, honestly. I mean, I do understand it if you think they are serious, but I strongly suspect the performance is at the expense of Solanas, not in support of her.
Oh noez, guyz!!! FYMYNYSTS don’t benefit menz! Why U No Support dudes!?!
I’m afraid I’m all out of giveashit for narcissistic personalities with confirmation bias. I mean after all we don’t need to derail the thread AGAIN about how women here actually like the non-troll men who comment here.
I’d be all for joining in the “Let’s talk about Brandon” tangent, but I’ve already done my part.
@Cynickal: Please keep that attitude. The more feminists that have that attitude, the quicker men will flock away from feminism.
Look, the only reason I enjoyed Tiptree’s outing was because she was a coward and a hatemongering blowhard. That’s a really obnoxious combination. She was talking about eugenics and genocide and shit, and it’s like, well, you’re not going to achieve any of that hiding behind the computer. Here’s a little push toward the first step. You should be grateful- unless, of course, it’s all just so much horseshit. OOPS! That’s why I thought releasing her name was fucking hilarious, but then Elam goes way too far and posts all this personal shit and making vague ominous threats and that’s not acceptable in my book. You got her, just let it alone. This kind of thing should be about humiliation, not harassment or endangerment. Posting addresses crosses that line, IMO.
I, and I bet most of AVfM, would never condone going after someone like Holly, Ozymandias, Futrelle, even Valenti or Marcotte or Schwyzer.
Brandon: This is, after all, a blog about mocking misogyny. So yea, he’s gonna concentrate on the misogyny.
Personally, I find actual threatened violence against actual people worse than theatrical violence, no matter how disturbing or reprehensible i think it is.
Do you understand the difference between a criminal conviction, a civil verdict, and a private disciplinary committee? Okay, I shouldn’t ask questions I already know the answers to, you clearly don’t.
One thing I’ve realized recently is that NWO thinks all of the following:
a) Police showing up to investigate a crime
b) Police arresting someone for a crime
c) Someone getting put on trial
d) Someone being convicted and imprisoned
…are all the same thing. So if, for example, a woman calls the police and says her husband beat her, and the police go to the house and question her, that is exactly the same as the husband being thrown into prison forever.
Given that his idea of perfect Utopian justice is lynch mobs beating people to death in the street without trial, I guess this makes some kind of weird logical sense.
like you I don’t understand Swedish so I’m not sure. But if the play is indeed promoting misandry I’m sure they can get it called off based on hate speech, although I don’t know what the laws in Sweden are on that and how a bunch of Americans can influence them. MRA groups in Sweden would probably have a better chance.
Because, clearly, there is nothing more evil than learning…and that includes basic civics.
Oh noez guyz!!! Teh not MRA menz are goingz to flock togetherz away from us!
Also:
e) A civil citation
f) A disciplinary action by a private organization
So, for instance, I was fined by Scripps College for owning contraband mice, and therefore I’m…in prison right now serving a life sentence, I guess?
Isn’t this witch hunt just an attempt to cover up the embarrassing fact that, when MRA sites first dug up this video a couple of weeks ago, a bunch of them thought it was a video of an actual murder? Despite the fact that it’s obviously a bunch of college students with a prop gun? I seem to recall that NWO was one of the people who thought it was real.
@shaenon
owlslave’s current tangent doesnt even actually involve anything as serious as that. this is all about on-campus investigations. there are no criminal penalties involved.
not punk-
last two i was in the crowd for
@Sharculese
OT but I’ve been meaning to ask you this for awhile… is the woman in your icon Haley from…argh I forgot the band’s name but I know her name is Haley.
Also hooray for Refused! even though its been ages since I listened to em’
Ashley is sleeping. Sorry.
So? Wake her up. She’ll just giggle and let you spank her.
This being planet earth, I wouldn’t hold my breath that it is indeed promoting misandry.
OT but I’ve been meaning to ask you this for awhile… is the woman in your icon Haley from…argh I forgot the band’s name but I know her name is Haley.
yes
Also hooray for Refused! even though its been ages since I listened to em’
yes
yes
Paramore! that’s the name. Great song.
My favorite Refused songs (dunno how to embed)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc1KZTZKnyk
um…well I managed one anyway >.>
ya, paramores first album was awesome. its a shame they couldnt live up to it, but how many pop-punk bands have more than one good album anyway?
as to refused, shape of punk to come is one of my favorite albums ever. and about new noise: theres this story i love from when i used to post on atease where a dude was talking about how he saw refused on three dollar bill back in the day, these skinny blonde dude in suits come out and he’s like ‘what the fuck, this is going to be terrible’ and then they launch into new noise
I’ve put NWO on moderation again for being an even bigger asshole than he usually is.
Brandon, yes, the bounty is worse than the video.
This is genuinely appalling, and I’m very glad this video was made in Sweden, which at least makes it marginally less likely that AVfM’s collective fantasies will actually be realized.
Because logically, where do they stop? The people who made Baise-moi! are presumably just as fair game – if not more so, as it was a proper film that got an international cinema release. And how about Ridley Scott for making Thelma & Louise? Or Abel Ferrara for making Ms. 45?
Because it seems to me that there’s no fucking difference, except in terms of scale and therefore potential vulnerability to harassment.
All credit to MRAL for refusing to condone this – and saying so upfront, without getting prompted.
No credit at all to NWOSlave or Brandon for being just as predictably obnoxious as ever. In fact, Brandon’s ability to come across as even creepier than NWOSlave despite ostensibly posting far less inflammatory material never ceases to amaze me.