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antifeminism misandry misogyny MRA paul elam threats violence against men/women

Men’s Rights site A Voice for Men offers $1000 “bounty” for personal information on Swedish feminists

A Voice for Men, one of the most influential and popular Men’s Rights websites, is now offering a $1000 “bounty” for anyone able to track down the personal information of several Swedish women involved in a tasteless video advertising a theater production based on Valarie Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. As the anonymous poster calling himself John the Other – the second-in-command at AVfM – put it in a posting yesterday (emphasis in original):

We are asking for the full legal names, home addresses, places of employment, email addresses and contact phone numbers of the women and man who produced and starred in the video described above. We will pay 1000 dollars to any individual who provides and confirms this information, to be paid either directly to themselves or to a charity of their choice.

John explains that this information will be posted on the AVfM-affiliated site Register-Her.com, an “offenders database” that is being used to vilify individual feminists and “Fuck Their Shit Up,” as AVfM head honcho Paul Elam likes to put it. John notes that Regsiter-Her.com also intends to post the “government identification numbers [and] drivers licences” of the women they are able to identify.

John admits plainly that posting such information may put the physical safety of these women at risk from vigilante violence. As he puts it (emphasis mine):

Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.

The comments posted on the article at AVfM suggest that such “retributive” violence is a real possibility. Indeed, here’s the very first comment (which currently has 17 upvotes from readers of the site):

A commenter called  Xnomolos, in another upvoted comment, adds:

i would love to hunt down these women myself.

JinnBottle responds to this comment by advising “all men to start carrying guns.”

The commenters on AVfM have already uncovered the identities of all of the women involved in the video. The blogger Fidelbogen has been the most active internet detective so far.

There is no question that the video itself is offensive, and designed to provoke. You can see it here; I’m not going to embed it on this site. If you don’t want to watch it: it depicts a young woman shooting a man in the head for no reason. Afterwards the woman and her gleeful, giggling accomplices do a victory dance, then lick the blood from the dead man’s head. A message at the end urges viewers to “Do Your Part.”

Every feminist I know who has seen the video has been appalled by it. I’m appalled by it. It’s hateful, and it’s wrong.

But John the Other, and the other commenters on AVfM, claim that it is more than this: that that the video of the staged murder, intended to provide publicity for a theater production based on Solanas’ notorious SCUM manifesto, is quite literally an open call for the murder of men. As John the Other puts it:

Open advocation of murder cannot be allowed in a civil society, without that society devolving into a culture of brutal violence.

Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.

Is the video a literal call to murder? Is it, as one AVfM commenter puts it, evidence of a “conspiracy to commit mass murder?” No. Violence and murder have been dramatized in the theater since its beginnings. No one accuses Sophocles of advocating fratricide and incest, though both are dealt with in his play Oedipus Rex. No one accuses Shakespeare of advocating mass murder, though many of his most famous plays have body counts that put many horror films to shame.

Does the tag line at the end of the video – “do your part” – transform the video from a depiction of murder  into an open call for it? No. The “threat,” such as it is, is vague; it’s not aimed at any specific individuals. It might be seen as akin to someone wearing a t-shirt that says “kill ‘em all, let God sort them out” – tasteless and offensive, but not a literal threat.  “Kill ‘Em All” is actually the name of Metallica’s first album. While a lot of people see James Hetfield,  Lars Ulrich et al as pompous idiots, they have not been jailed for conspiracy to commit mass murder. That would be ridiculous.

Someone claiming to have been involved in the SCUM-inspired theatrical production in question has posted several detailed comments on AVfM, explaining that those involved in the production are “not out to get you” and that the video itself was “meant as a viral “wtf?!” to give attention to both the questions that it raises and the play itself.”

By contrast, AVfM is targeting specific individuals, and intends to offer information that would allow anyone intent on doing them harm to quite literally track them to their homes and workplaces. Those fantasizing about killing these woman are not simply making a joke along the lines of “women, can’t live with ‘em; can’t kill ‘em.” They are fantasizing about killing real people, and providing would-be evil-doers maps to their doors.

AVfM is an American site, in English; these specific women live in Sweden. While it is a real possibility, it seems unlikely that anyone reading the site will literally find and murder any of those involved in the SCUM production. At least I hope that this does not come to pass.

I don’t believe that either Paul Elam or John the Other literally wants any feminist to be killed. The real intent behind AVfM’s publishing people’s personal information, it seems clear, is to intimidate feminist writers and activists into shutting up, to make clear that if they post something that offends the internet vigilantes at AVfM they will face the possibility of some deranged individual quite literally showing up at their door intent on doing them harm.

Paul Elam and John the Other claim that they’re not advocating violence. But they are playing a dangerous game here. If some deranged individual, inspired by the hyperbolic anti-feminist rhetoric on AVfM, and armed with information provided by “Register-Her.com,” murders or otherwise harms a feminist blogger or activist or video maker, Elam and his enablers will have blood on their hands. As will those MRAs who continue to publicly support and/or link to AVfM and/or Register-Her.com.

This is not the way a legitimate rights group deals with those who disagree with them. This is what hate groups do.

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Rutee Katreya
13 years ago

Oh I see, I didn’t know. I don’t know that much about SCUM actually. I read a bit of it and thought it was vile, pointless and written by someone with obvious issues. Then when I find out she shot Andy Warhol it didn’t surprise me in the least. I still can’t believe there are people who take Valerie Solanas seriously, especially as a feminist. She’s a criminal and not even alive anymore.

Do you mean these people here? Because it’s apparently advertising for a play based on that manuscript. That doesn’t mean people, even those in the video, are currently taking her seriously. I mean, I don’t speak swedish yet, and I am not at Sweden either, so it’s a little difficult to check. They may, depending on how it’s presented. But that it’s being done doesn’t mean people are taking her seriously, sort of like how you can perform the Tempest without doing a pro-wizard work.

Mind, apparently it was taken seriously in the past, so there’s that, and that was grossly stupid and wrong. But I don’t know if she’s still taken particularly seriously.

Quackers
Quackers
13 years ago

Don’t mean, accepted and embraced. Like the way you, a feminist, are making excuses. You can understand why I think modern day women like yourselves are moral-less pieces of filth who desreved to be treated as such, can’t you?

Fuck you NWO you disgusting piece of shit. You are no better than the women in that video. You know why? because we all know in your perfect utopia you’d be able to rape and beat women with impunity. Talking about morality are we now you filthy fuck? You have called for female slavery before on this very website, do not even attempt to talk to me about morality.

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

@DavidF: Also, that whole “do your part” bit at the end is clearly a call to action. It’s marketing 101.

Plus a bunch of young girls celebrating the execution of a man doesn’t exactly give off the right subtext either.

zhinxy
13 years ago

Perhaps Paul doesn’t fully understand the meaning of, “zero-sum-game” like me. One-upmanship then?

What are you even talking about?

Sharculese
Sharculese
13 years ago

brandon, i know ive explained before about how i dont care about your self-congratulatory worldview, so im not sure why you expect me to play your dumb my-equality-is-better-than-your-equality game.

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

@Sharculese: Hey, if you want to bow out, go right ahead.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
13 years ago

Can this thread please not turn into another episode of Brandon’s Ego Today? Please?

Sharculese
Sharculese
13 years ago

bow out of what?

Rutee Katreya
13 years ago

To be fair, cassandra, the other trolls aren’t much more entertaining XD

Shora
13 years ago

“That video literally made me sick to my stomach. Who the hell would make something like that?”

Feminists from a 100% feminist culture. Sweden, the vanguard of feminism.

So much wrong packed in two teeny little sentences. I’m almost impressed.

zhinxy
13 years ago

Brandon, this is another episode of “Things that aren’t about Brandon” I’m sorry. The Equality Olympics are cancelled. Can you just go call Ashley?

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

@Zhinxy: Ashley is sleeping. Sorry.

Sharculese
Sharculese
13 years ago

Can this thread please not turn into another episode of Brandon’s Ego Today? Please?

fuck brandon. this is sharculese’s ego. it’s louder, has more swears, and involves punk rock youtubes.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
13 years ago

But Rutee, I find Meller endlessly entertaining. I mean, we only just learned about the dolls, think how many other fascinating examples of his oddity he may share if we keep poking him!

NWOslave
NWOslave
13 years ago

@Quackers

Boohoohoo! Why don’t ya make your own video. Shoot 2 men in the heads and lick off the blood. You’re not gonna let those feminist in Sweden outdo you american feminists? Are ya?

My perfect utopia? Well let’s start small, as to not offend your delicate sensibilities. How about when little girls make a funfilled video about shooting a man in the head, soley because he’s a man. Then gleefully licking off the blood, you ladies drag those vile pieces of filth out in the streets and beat the shit out of them?

I hope that’s not too much to ask on the yellow brick road to my utopia?

darksidecat
darksidecat
13 years ago

Yes, I just fought long and hard for that one, infortunately feminists are relentless. That preponderance of evidence thing is back already. Huzzah for feminism!

Do you understand the difference between a criminal conviction, a civil verdict, and a private disciplinary committee? Okay, I shouldn’t ask questions I already know the answers to, you clearly don’t.

Rutee Katreya
13 years ago

But Rutee, I find Meller endlessly entertaining. I mean, we only just learned about the dolls, think how many other fascinating examples of his oddity he may share if we keep poking him!

Oh, right, my tastes aren’t everyones, and some people are legitimately amused with the trolls here. Fair enough, my bad XD

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
13 years ago

Better start skipping, Slavey.

(I guess this means that NWO is the Wizard – not very impressive behind all his bluster.)

Sharculese
Sharculese
13 years ago

@dsc

he doesnt understand burdens of of proof. how do you expect him to understand consequences.

Bostonian
13 years ago

So can we get all the MRA’s addresses, phone numbers, real names, places of employment? Just for informational purposes, you know, to post on the internet? Oh wait, feminists in general don’t condone invasion of privacy.

It is almost as though both sides are not as bad! The MRAs are happy to be known as a hate movement that lobbies in defense of abusers, and is happy to let everyone know just how cruel and evil they want to be to real people in the real world.

Quackers
Quackers
13 years ago

once again, fuck off NWO. Your pathetic attempt at twisting my words around and gaslighting is not going to work. I don’t condone the video. I hate it and think its sick. But I also don’t condone REAL violent rhetoric against people and think its sick to plaster all their private info on the net to bait someone into taking what is most likely your mode of revenge ie beating the shit out of them.

And if you are so about true justice, how about you drag out all the Hollywood directors who make movies where women are raped, tortured and killed by men? why don’t you do something about them hmm? oh I forgot. Because it doesn’t MATTER TO YOU if its WOMEN suffering you fucking hypocrite.

NWOslave
NWOslave
13 years ago

I hope this video gets sent to the four corners of the earth, from timbuktoo to catmandoo. Let’s get the show on the road. Let the hatred just pour over the entire planet. The big boys at the top want a battle of the sexes, and the women are suckin it down hook, line and sinker.

There ain’t no stoppin it now kiddies, so let the battle begin in earnest. The women and the State/Corporate/MSM complex against individual men. It’s gonna be quite a ride.

Keep up that State/Corporate/MSM feuled violence and hatred. And have a real good night.

Quackers
Quackers
13 years ago

@Rutee

I mean taken seriously by anyone. Solanas was obviously fucked up and thrown in jail where she belonged, so why do people get so worked up about her? I understand why MRAs would want the play to be called off and fully support that, but basically calling out for the heads of the people involved in it?

Its like when a really extreme horror movie comes out and it’s either banned or rated NC17. But people against the film don’t call for a bounty on the directors heads.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
13 years ago

NWO actually does want to fiddle while the world burns. That’s the real purpose of this list – these guys don’t just want to hurt those specific women, they’re hoping to eventually provoke a violent backlash against women as a whole.

As entertaining as I sometimes find Meller’s rants, these people are dangerous.

Jill the Spinster
Jill the Spinster
13 years ago

I have only read that website a couple of times, but there was an interesting post where someone made a comment about not liking some of the extreme views of some MRAs and the response was that they shouldn’t “shame” the more extreme posters, they should let them vent because they were hurt and angry and needed to express themselves….

It kind of explains why there is no censure from other posters, because…. Shaming language….

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