A Voice for Men, one of the most influential and popular Men’s Rights websites, is now offering a $1000 “bounty” for anyone able to track down the personal information of several Swedish women involved in a tasteless video advertising a theater production based on Valarie Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. As the anonymous poster calling himself John the Other – the second-in-command at AVfM – put it in a posting yesterday (emphasis in original):
We are asking for the full legal names, home addresses, places of employment, email addresses and contact phone numbers of the women and man who produced and starred in the video described above. We will pay 1000 dollars to any individual who provides and confirms this information, to be paid either directly to themselves or to a charity of their choice.
John explains that this information will be posted on the AVfM-affiliated site Register-Her.com, an “offenders database” that is being used to vilify individual feminists and “Fuck Their Shit Up,” as AVfM head honcho Paul Elam likes to put it. John notes that Regsiter-Her.com also intends to post the “government identification numbers [and] drivers licences” of the women they are able to identify.
John admits plainly that posting such information may put the physical safety of these women at risk from vigilante violence. As he puts it (emphasis mine):
Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.
The comments posted on the article at AVfM suggest that such “retributive” violence is a real possibility. Indeed, here’s the very first comment (which currently has 17 upvotes from readers of the site):
A commenter called Xnomolos, in another upvoted comment, adds:
i would love to hunt down these women myself.
JinnBottle responds to this comment by advising “all men to start carrying guns.”
The commenters on AVfM have already uncovered the identities of all of the women involved in the video. The blogger Fidelbogen has been the most active internet detective so far.
There is no question that the video itself is offensive, and designed to provoke. You can see it here; I’m not going to embed it on this site. If you don’t want to watch it: it depicts a young woman shooting a man in the head for no reason. Afterwards the woman and her gleeful, giggling accomplices do a victory dance, then lick the blood from the dead man’s head. A message at the end urges viewers to “Do Your Part.”
Every feminist I know who has seen the video has been appalled by it. I’m appalled by it. It’s hateful, and it’s wrong.
But John the Other, and the other commenters on AVfM, claim that it is more than this: that that the video of the staged murder, intended to provide publicity for a theater production based on Solanas’ notorious SCUM manifesto, is quite literally an open call for the murder of men. As John the Other puts it:
Open advocation of murder cannot be allowed in a civil society, without that society devolving into a culture of brutal violence.
Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.
Is the video a literal call to murder? Is it, as one AVfM commenter puts it, evidence of a “conspiracy to commit mass murder?” No. Violence and murder have been dramatized in the theater since its beginnings. No one accuses Sophocles of advocating fratricide and incest, though both are dealt with in his play Oedipus Rex. No one accuses Shakespeare of advocating mass murder, though many of his most famous plays have body counts that put many horror films to shame.
Does the tag line at the end of the video – “do your part” – transform the video from a depiction of murder into an open call for it? No. The “threat,” such as it is, is vague; it’s not aimed at any specific individuals. It might be seen as akin to someone wearing a t-shirt that says “kill ‘em all, let God sort them out” – tasteless and offensive, but not a literal threat. “Kill ‘Em All” is actually the name of Metallica’s first album. While a lot of people see James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich et al as pompous idiots, they have not been jailed for conspiracy to commit mass murder. That would be ridiculous.
Someone claiming to have been involved in the SCUM-inspired theatrical production in question has posted several detailed comments on AVfM, explaining that those involved in the production are “not out to get you” and that the video itself was “meant as a viral “wtf?!” to give attention to both the questions that it raises and the play itself.”
By contrast, AVfM is targeting specific individuals, and intends to offer information that would allow anyone intent on doing them harm to quite literally track them to their homes and workplaces. Those fantasizing about killing these woman are not simply making a joke along the lines of “women, can’t live with ‘em; can’t kill ‘em.” They are fantasizing about killing real people, and providing would-be evil-doers maps to their doors.
AVfM is an American site, in English; these specific women live in Sweden. While it is a real possibility, it seems unlikely that anyone reading the site will literally find and murder any of those involved in the SCUM production. At least I hope that this does not come to pass.
I don’t believe that either Paul Elam or John the Other literally wants any feminist to be killed. The real intent behind AVfM’s publishing people’s personal information, it seems clear, is to intimidate feminist writers and activists into shutting up, to make clear that if they post something that offends the internet vigilantes at AVfM they will face the possibility of some deranged individual quite literally showing up at their door intent on doing them harm.
Paul Elam and John the Other claim that they’re not advocating violence. But they are playing a dangerous game here. If some deranged individual, inspired by the hyperbolic anti-feminist rhetoric on AVfM, and armed with information provided by “Register-Her.com,” murders or otherwise harms a feminist blogger or activist or video maker, Elam and his enablers will have blood on their hands. As will those MRAs who continue to publicly support and/or link to AVfM and/or Register-Her.com.
This is not the way a legitimate rights group deals with those who disagree with them. This is what hate groups do.
Ya, and independents that love watching the democrats and republicans bicker back and forth are “above it all”.
yes. people who smugly cackle about our political system turning into a dumb back and forth without understanding the contours of that exchange are also dumb and terrible. good point.
Seconded. At least NWOwhatsisface is entertaining in a spinny “wtf is he gonna say NEXT?” kind of way.
seriously, brandon, do you actually expect anybody to be impressed by your knee-jerk ‘both sides are equally not brandon’ rhetoric ever?
@RK
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ljd0i/bigot_who_said_the_following_has_been_placed_on/c2t6xrs
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/lnneu/paul_take_jenna_off_registerhercom/c2u5aqs
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/lnneu/paul_take_jenna_off_registerhercom/c2u6y5b
Before I start calling out the massive hypocrisy, I did give you the link long ago for the video so you have seen it.
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@Holly Pervocracy
“What they’re doing is horrifying, it’s dangerous, and despite my joke about the comments this might bring, it’s not a game.”
” Horrifying?” “Dangerous?” These are words I used when I first saw the video. Sarcasm was the reply. Or it’s art. Or pick your excuse.
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@zhinxy
” It’s vital to remember Paul Elam’s concept of “self defense” here, and appropriate response. He has no concept that excalation and excessive force is a bad idea.”
Perhaps Paul doesn’t fully understand the meaning of, “zero-sum-game” like me. One-upmanship then?
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@Holly Pervocracy
“How about incitement?”
Would incitement include making a school video with State funds about shooting a man because he’s a man and laughing gleefully? Then making it into a play? Feminism can be fun!!!
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@ozymandias42
“This scares the shit out of me, to be honest.”
Enough to teach girls that with equality comes responsibility? Just because you, “can” do whatever you want doesn’t mean you should, or won’t be held accountable. If you really wanna have the shit scared out of you, watch the video.
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@Holly Pervocracy
“They’re also, and I’m a little nervous saying this, complete cowards.”
The cowards are these little girls and all who defend them. Women/girls expecting to be immune from punishment due to their sex. Perhaps a little Big Daddy intervention is in order?
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@Xanthe
“It’s a witch hunt, pure and simple.”
Women are always victims, they can do no wrong.
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@Lauralot
“Fucking vile evil hate group. There’s not much more I can say.”
Let me know when MRAs make a similar video, then we’ll talk about hate.
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@Bostonian
“The MRM, so peaceful compared to the feminist movement! Oh wait, it is the other way around completely…”
Yes, you can tell by the video’s. Such lovely proof of feminisms true colors shining thru.
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@Dracula
“This is just fucking shameful. This is not how grown adults settle their differences.”
You’re right, in a patriarchal society she would’ve learned respect at a young age. Everyone of them deserves to have their collective asses kicked.
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@captainbathrobe
“Gosh, he’s such a moderate and thoughtful MRA.”
Hate begets hate, violence begets violence. Eventually, after a lifetime of turning the other cheek, your patience runs out.
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@Unimaginative
“when the inevitable violence happens, they’re going to throw their hands up and say “WE didn’t commit the violence.”
We know who incited the violence, we know who fired the first shot.
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@CassandraSays
“In the event that someone actually did track down and kill one of the people involved in that video, can Elam et al be charged with conspiracy to commit murder?”
In the event someone see’s the video and kills a man, will all these vile feminist creatures be locked away for good?
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@tatjna”
And yet when women talk about receiving threats from internet misogynists, we are told we’re imagining it.”
Do you expect love in return for your feminist video?
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@Jenn93″Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.”
Are you talking about the feminist play?
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@Pyena”This is disgusting. Is it possible to report these bullies to someone?”
We’re trying to have their names put on a list. It’s all men have, women run the State.
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What a vile bunch of creatures you are. You’ll fall all over yourselves to defend your sista’s, when you should literally, and I mean literally be dragging these pieces of filth into the center of town and beating the ever loving crap out of them. Feminism=equality? What a fucking joke.
Oh but get your tickets now kiddies for the all new Solanas play, it’s art! I can hardly wait for the MSM to spin this into the good woman/bad man story when some guy finally gets up the stones to beat the shit out of one of these precious snowflakes. Why she’s a victim! Hate begets hate, violence begets violence. And feminism is, as the video clearly shows, a hate movement.
The State’ll promote this vile hate-filled play, maybe Obama will see it and praise it like he did the Vagina monologues. And when some man finally gets sick of all the hate thrown at him by women and turns to violence, women can say. See! See! Men are violent and then use State violence on men. Better figure out who your real enemy is before it’s too late.
Guys, you’re forgetting–Brandon isn’t being threatened, so it doesn’t matter.
Brandon, do you care what happens to people who aren’t you?
Aw crap. I forgot that if you say his name he has a 5% chance of appearing for 2d6 posts. Sorry everyone!
Seconded. At least NWOwhatsisface is entertaining in a spinny “wtf is he gonna say NEXT?” kind of way.
definitely.
owlslave, dkm, even mral have some sort of worldview where you can at least explain each facet of their misogyny as an aspect of that. brandon just kind of shows up to announce how the discussion is beneath him and then is shocked that nobody is impressed by his wisdom, so he has to stick around oozing smarm about it.
@Sharculese: I think you are referring to the “Men should support feminism, but we don’t have to give them shit for their support” argument.
I don’t really care if feminism/feminists are nice or deferential towards me or men in general. My argument was that if you want men to support feminism, then feminism actually has to benefit them. Or at a bare minimum men should be seen in a non-hostile, welcoming manner.
Personally, I don’t think feminism is very welcoming to men so it is by no surprise that most men don’t label themselves as feminists (hell, even women use the “I believe in equality, but I am not a feminist” line all the time).
I was pointing out the absurdity of asking for men to support feminism and feminists goals, but then turn around and not give them what they want.
It’s like a politician pissing off their constituents, then getting mad that the voters aren’t voting for them.
Maggie, you defended it just then. I actually believe you when you say that you disagree with it, but you apparently can’t manage to do so without a passive aggressive “BUT THEY HAVE A POINT”. I don’t know if i’ts a need to keep from criticizing your side, as it were, but you did.
Hey, NWO told everyone they were nasty, evil feminists except me!
….should I be insulted?
@Sharculese: I think you are referring to the “Men should support feminism, but we don’t have to give them shit for their support” argument.
Is this the “Men should support feminism, and but women shouldn’t care about misandry” argument? Or is it the “Men should support feminism, and women should have to give them blowjobs and make them a sammich” argument?
Because the first isn’t a real thing people believe, and the second would make you a terrible, terrible person.
@Katz: Yes I do.
*can’t manage to do so in front of feminists, I should say. That nonsense about family arguing inside a house and banding together outside it.
Dammit NWO, no love for me?!? Point out where I’m being hypocritical and vile! I feel like I won’t be part of the clique otherwise…
brandon as a feminist dude, i dont need your self absorbed lecture about how to make feminism more appealing to you personally. for the billionth time, we dont want you. we dont care about your needs. having you in our ranks would only be embarrassing. go away.
for the record, though, ive never seen you make an argument. ive seen you make a lot of announcements, but announcing your needs isnt the same as making an argument. again: nobody cares, nobody wants you here, go away.
He made plenty of arguments for the viability of gold as a medium of exchange in the modern era. I spent half of them laughing and the other half horrified by the state of history education.
@Katz: When have I ever advocated women should just give me blowjobs and be chained to the stove/counter/sink so she can make me a sandwich? Oh right…never. But nice try.
Seconded. At least NWOwhatsisface is entertaining in a spinny “wtf is he gonna say NEXT?” kind of way.
Seems to me he just says same shit over and over again.
Is this the “Men should support feminism, and but women shouldn’t care about misandry” argument? Or is it the “Men should support feminism, and women should have to give them blowjobs and make them a sammich” argument?
this is the ‘men should only support feminism if feminism doesnt interfere with their needs, and its feminism’s job to make sure that doesn’t happen’ argument
Wow, NWO included me in his ramblings. I feel like I’ve just passed initiation or something.
I still believe that putting people’s personal information on display while not so subtly calling for violence/death is a horrible things to do.
*horrible thing to do.
Oh I see, I didn’t know. I don’t know that much about SCUM actually. I read a bit of it and thought it was vile, pointless and written by someone with obvious issues. Then when I find out she shot Andy Warhol it didn’t surprise me in the least. I still can’t believe there are people who take Valerie Solanas seriously, especially as a feminist. She’s a criminal and not even alive anymore.
@Sharculese: I bet if we lined up our values, mine would be far more equal than yours. In fact, I would love to make women equal to men. Anything the majority of men can do, I will expect the majority of women to be able to do it too.
@mythago
“You know, ozy is a feminist who regularly calls out misandry.”
Yea, let me put on a dress and suck some dick so I can break out of my genderbox! What a help that gal is!
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@Shora
“That video literally made me sick to my stomach. Who the hell would make something like that?”
Feminists from a 100% feminist culture. Sweden, the vanguard of feminism.
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“This call for blood, though — and it IS a call for blood, make no mistake — is absolutely chilling.”
Yes, the video most certainly is. And it’s a play, get your tickets noooooowwwww!!!
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@Quackers
“Personally I just got the impression they were trying hard do something shocking and controversial.”
Don’t mean, accepted and embraced. Like the way you, a feminist, are making excuses. You can understand why I think modern day women like yourselves are moral-less pieces of filth who desreved to be treated as such, can’t you?
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@darksidecat
“You know that whole “innocent until proven guilty” bit?”
Yes, I just fought long and hard for that one, infortunately feminists are relentless. That preponderance of evidence thing is back already. Huzzah for feminism!
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@Quackers
“I dont think feminists even knew about this video until MRAs brought it up. Know why? because feminists don’t troll the internet looking for misandry.”
We don’t have to troll the internet, it’s in our Schoolhouses, Government, MSM, Magazines, Plays, it’s fucking everywhere.