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antifeminism misandry misogyny MRA paul elam threats violence against men/women

Men’s Rights site A Voice for Men offers $1000 “bounty” for personal information on Swedish feminists

A Voice for Men, one of the most influential and popular Men’s Rights websites, is now offering a $1000 “bounty” for anyone able to track down the personal information of several Swedish women involved in a tasteless video advertising a theater production based on Valarie Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. As the anonymous poster calling himself John the Other – the second-in-command at AVfM – put it in a posting yesterday (emphasis in original):

We are asking for the full legal names, home addresses, places of employment, email addresses and contact phone numbers of the women and man who produced and starred in the video described above. We will pay 1000 dollars to any individual who provides and confirms this information, to be paid either directly to themselves or to a charity of their choice.

John explains that this information will be posted on the AVfM-affiliated site Register-Her.com, an “offenders database” that is being used to vilify individual feminists and “Fuck Their Shit Up,” as AVfM head honcho Paul Elam likes to put it. John notes that Regsiter-Her.com also intends to post the “government identification numbers [and] drivers licences” of the women they are able to identify.

John admits plainly that posting such information may put the physical safety of these women at risk from vigilante violence. As he puts it (emphasis mine):

Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.

The comments posted on the article at AVfM suggest that such “retributive” violence is a real possibility. Indeed, here’s the very first comment (which currently has 17 upvotes from readers of the site):

A commenter called  Xnomolos, in another upvoted comment, adds:

i would love to hunt down these women myself.

JinnBottle responds to this comment by advising “all men to start carrying guns.”

The commenters on AVfM have already uncovered the identities of all of the women involved in the video. The blogger Fidelbogen has been the most active internet detective so far.

There is no question that the video itself is offensive, and designed to provoke. You can see it here; I’m not going to embed it on this site. If you don’t want to watch it: it depicts a young woman shooting a man in the head for no reason. Afterwards the woman and her gleeful, giggling accomplices do a victory dance, then lick the blood from the dead man’s head. A message at the end urges viewers to “Do Your Part.”

Every feminist I know who has seen the video has been appalled by it. I’m appalled by it. It’s hateful, and it’s wrong.

But John the Other, and the other commenters on AVfM, claim that it is more than this: that that the video of the staged murder, intended to provide publicity for a theater production based on Solanas’ notorious SCUM manifesto, is quite literally an open call for the murder of men. As John the Other puts it:

Open advocation of murder cannot be allowed in a civil society, without that society devolving into a culture of brutal violence.

Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.

Is the video a literal call to murder? Is it, as one AVfM commenter puts it, evidence of a “conspiracy to commit mass murder?” No. Violence and murder have been dramatized in the theater since its beginnings. No one accuses Sophocles of advocating fratricide and incest, though both are dealt with in his play Oedipus Rex. No one accuses Shakespeare of advocating mass murder, though many of his most famous plays have body counts that put many horror films to shame.

Does the tag line at the end of the video – “do your part” – transform the video from a depiction of murder  into an open call for it? No. The “threat,” such as it is, is vague; it’s not aimed at any specific individuals. It might be seen as akin to someone wearing a t-shirt that says “kill ‘em all, let God sort them out” – tasteless and offensive, but not a literal threat.  “Kill ‘Em All” is actually the name of Metallica’s first album. While a lot of people see James Hetfield,  Lars Ulrich et al as pompous idiots, they have not been jailed for conspiracy to commit mass murder. That would be ridiculous.

Someone claiming to have been involved in the SCUM-inspired theatrical production in question has posted several detailed comments on AVfM, explaining that those involved in the production are “not out to get you” and that the video itself was “meant as a viral “wtf?!” to give attention to both the questions that it raises and the play itself.”

By contrast, AVfM is targeting specific individuals, and intends to offer information that would allow anyone intent on doing them harm to quite literally track them to their homes and workplaces. Those fantasizing about killing these woman are not simply making a joke along the lines of “women, can’t live with ‘em; can’t kill ‘em.” They are fantasizing about killing real people, and providing would-be evil-doers maps to their doors.

AVfM is an American site, in English; these specific women live in Sweden. While it is a real possibility, it seems unlikely that anyone reading the site will literally find and murder any of those involved in the SCUM production. At least I hope that this does not come to pass.

I don’t believe that either Paul Elam or John the Other literally wants any feminist to be killed. The real intent behind AVfM’s publishing people’s personal information, it seems clear, is to intimidate feminist writers and activists into shutting up, to make clear that if they post something that offends the internet vigilantes at AVfM they will face the possibility of some deranged individual quite literally showing up at their door intent on doing them harm.

Paul Elam and John the Other claim that they’re not advocating violence. But they are playing a dangerous game here. If some deranged individual, inspired by the hyperbolic anti-feminist rhetoric on AVfM, and armed with information provided by “Register-Her.com,” murders or otherwise harms a feminist blogger or activist or video maker, Elam and his enablers will have blood on their hands. As will those MRAs who continue to publicly support and/or link to AVfM and/or Register-Her.com.

This is not the way a legitimate rights group deals with those who disagree with them. This is what hate groups do.

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mythago
13 years ago

Brandon didn’t stick the flounce? Color me surprised.

mythago
13 years ago

Hey, David, can we get Brandon’s IP address up in here? Since posting all kinds of personal shit on someone you dislike is hilarious and beerworthy, I’m sure he won’t mind.

Rutee Katreya
13 years ago

BTW, assuming it is true that you believe that there might be some danger to this posting, the same thing can be said for sex offenders, some of which were eighteen year old boys fucking their seventeen year old girlfriends.

Can you be less stupid, Mags? Why do you assume feminists are automatically okay with sex offender registries? Mind, this spectre you’re raising isn’t a common one, but I think it’s harmful because it’s another part of the vengeful punishment vibe our justice system is focused on, not because my primary fear is for the rare 18 year olds on this list for fucking their girlfriends. You’re not undermining the idea behind a registry when you use that as your primary argument, you only say some people are unjustly on the list. The lists are a bad idea because they make integration into the community, one of the few factors strongly correlated with a decrease in recidivism, much more difficult.

But, you shouldn’t have your panties in a twist. After all, I’ve been lead to believe that there is no activism in the MRM.

This isn’t activism. It’s hatemongering.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
13 years ago

@Magdelyn:

Probably, under your definition, we still don’t care about the video. If pressed, we’ll reiterate that we don’t like it, but we’re not gonna crusade against it even now. The point is the bounty, not the video, that’s what we care about.

And so I ask. Your point?

Also… “panties in a twist?” Really? Not all of us wear panties here.

mythago
13 years ago

Rutee, not to mention that it’s a complete nonsequitur: “There are sex offender registries, therefore it’s OK to stalk and threaten people!” What?

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

@mythago: I will give it to you myself: 166.197.33.113

BTW, it gives out wrong info. I am not near Wichita, Kansas but in Massachusetts.

Rutee Katreya
13 years ago

I don’t defend register-her.com

Would every feminist you know (or any feminist you know) care about the video but for the $1000 bounty on the ladies who made the video

Sorry, this is what, again?

mythago
13 years ago

Brandon, based on your past posting history of lying your ass off, if you said the sky was blue it’d be a wise Manboobz poster who would look out the window to check.

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

@mythago: Whatever.

Rutee Katreya
13 years ago

Oh, and no, I explicitly don’t care about the video. It’s an ad for the SCUM manifesto play, playing in Sweden. Unless I find out they’re doing the play to drum up support for SCUM as it is commonly remembered now, and is successful, I’m never going to care that it’s being performed. Given who released it, it’s more “Haw Haw Feminists” than anything else.

To care about this video would require me to care about every violent trailer ever. I’m not going to do that.

Quackers
Quackers
13 years ago

@Magdelyn

I dont think feminists even knew about this video until MRAs brought it up. Know why? because feminists don’t troll the internet looking for misandry. They don’t even do it for misogyny. If they did I’d have expected to see tons of angry blog posts about 4chan or Encyclopedia Dramatica (ever read the page on women there?) MRAs however, do troll the net and try to use whatever extreme piece of writing or video they find as “proof” that all feminists hate men. Thus when it’s brought to our attention we’ll disagree or express disgust at it, much to the dismay of MRAs who want so bad to believe all feminists despise men.

Sharculese
Sharculese
13 years ago

*puts feet up to watch the chaos, cracks beer*

brandon, you understand if you were actually as above-it-all as your attention getting stunts are designed to suggest you wouldnt reflexively show up here to announce it, right.

seriously, if you actually didn’t care, you’d leave this place to people as clever as you want to believe you are.

darksidecat
13 years ago

Sex offender registries have plenty of issues, but they are not the same as these slipshod websites made by random douchebags on the internet. For one thing, they involve full due process through the criminal law system concluding in a conviction or a guilty plea. You know that whole “innocent until proven guilty” bit? Well, they’ve been proven guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt, in a court of law. So stop playing false equivalencies.

Quackers
Quackers
13 years ago

Given who released it, it’s more “Haw Haw Feminists” than anything else.

Personally I just got the impression they were trying hard do something shocking and controversial. Its just typical of young people (mostly) to do something like that regardless of gender. Look at Human Centipede for fucks sake. Is that film a call for people to create actual human centipedes?

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

@Sharculese: When did I ever say I was “above it all”?

Lauralot
Lauralot
13 years ago

@Sharculese: When did I ever say I was “above it all”?

lolwhat

Sharculese
Sharculese
13 years ago

reaaaalllly brandon, youre reealllly gonna play ‘show me on the doll where i huffed and puffed about everyone who wasnt as super rational and clever as brandon’?

pecunium
13 years ago

Brandon *puts feet up to watch the chaos, cracks beer*

But condemn it… says he nothing.

Shora
13 years ago

That video literally made me sick to my stomach. Who the hell would make something like that?

This call for blood, though — and it IS a call for blood, make no mistake — is absolutely chilling. The MRM can’t fund raise for charities, create mens shelters, or raise awareness about unfairness in the courts, but they can put a bounty on the heads of people they really don’t like. Awesome.

But David, I’m going to disagree with you here. That video is a call for murder. They may not have “literally” meant it, just has sarah palin didn’t “Liiterally” mean to target democratic senators, but we need to hold renegade left people to the same standards as renegade right. Which is to say, using your words;

For some people, it’s merely rhetoric. But the fact is that some people take this sort of rhetoric all too seriously — as those who use this rhetoric know or should know. All those who’ve engaged in it have blood on their hands.

Rutee Katreya
13 years ago

Personally I just got the impression they were trying hard do something shocking and controversial. Its just typical of young people (mostly) to do something like that regardless of gender. Look at Human Centipede for fucks sake. Is that film a call for people to create actual human centipedes?

I mean the publisher who initially distributed the manuscript, which he titled SCUM, and may have been the genesis f the “Society for Cutting Up Men” backronym. He found in the writer’s house after she died.

Sharculese
Sharculese
13 years ago

youve been playing the same freshman philosophy faux-devils-advocate card since the day you showed up here whining about how feminism wasnt nice or deferential enough to poor put upon brandon. you really think nobody noticed?

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

Ya, and independents that love watching the democrats and republicans bicker back and forth are “above it all”.

Just replace GOP/Dems with Feminism/MRA’s.

mythago
13 years ago

You know, ozy is a feminist who regularly calls out misandry. FFS, she has a group blog dedicated to how kyriarchy hurts men, which regularly condemns misandry and has positive calls to action to fight misandry (donating to groups that help male abusive victims, posting contact information for companies that advertise on misandrist programming so one can complain, that kind of thing).

This should make ozy on an MRA pedestal and get her more worshipful male attention and wondrous manly cock than even mags likes to tell us she gets, right?

Haha. No.

Rutee Katreya
13 years ago

Brandon, you have outright stated on these boards that you were above it all. You are fooling no one here. Be less pathetically bad at lying, seriously.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
13 years ago

The Republican and Democratic parties are openly putting bounties on people’s heads now? I was not aware of this fascinating new development.

(Can we ban Brandon for being boring? He’s not even fun to poke.)