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antifeminism misandry misogyny MRA paul elam threats violence against men/women

Men’s Rights site A Voice for Men offers $1000 “bounty” for personal information on Swedish feminists

A Voice for Men, one of the most influential and popular Men’s Rights websites, is now offering a $1000 “bounty” for anyone able to track down the personal information of several Swedish women involved in a tasteless video advertising a theater production based on Valarie Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. As the anonymous poster calling himself John the Other – the second-in-command at AVfM – put it in a posting yesterday (emphasis in original):

We are asking for the full legal names, home addresses, places of employment, email addresses and contact phone numbers of the women and man who produced and starred in the video described above. We will pay 1000 dollars to any individual who provides and confirms this information, to be paid either directly to themselves or to a charity of their choice.

John explains that this information will be posted on the AVfM-affiliated site Register-Her.com, an “offenders database” that is being used to vilify individual feminists and “Fuck Their Shit Up,” as AVfM head honcho Paul Elam likes to put it. John notes that Regsiter-Her.com also intends to post the “government identification numbers [and] drivers licences” of the women they are able to identify.

John admits plainly that posting such information may put the physical safety of these women at risk from vigilante violence. As he puts it (emphasis mine):

Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.

The comments posted on the article at AVfM suggest that such “retributive” violence is a real possibility. Indeed, here’s the very first comment (which currently has 17 upvotes from readers of the site):

A commenter called  Xnomolos, in another upvoted comment, adds:

i would love to hunt down these women myself.

JinnBottle responds to this comment by advising “all men to start carrying guns.”

The commenters on AVfM have already uncovered the identities of all of the women involved in the video. The blogger Fidelbogen has been the most active internet detective so far.

There is no question that the video itself is offensive, and designed to provoke. You can see it here; I’m not going to embed it on this site. If you don’t want to watch it: it depicts a young woman shooting a man in the head for no reason. Afterwards the woman and her gleeful, giggling accomplices do a victory dance, then lick the blood from the dead man’s head. A message at the end urges viewers to “Do Your Part.”

Every feminist I know who has seen the video has been appalled by it. I’m appalled by it. It’s hateful, and it’s wrong.

But John the Other, and the other commenters on AVfM, claim that it is more than this: that that the video of the staged murder, intended to provide publicity for a theater production based on Solanas’ notorious SCUM manifesto, is quite literally an open call for the murder of men. As John the Other puts it:

Open advocation of murder cannot be allowed in a civil society, without that society devolving into a culture of brutal violence.

Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.

Is the video a literal call to murder? Is it, as one AVfM commenter puts it, evidence of a “conspiracy to commit mass murder?” No. Violence and murder have been dramatized in the theater since its beginnings. No one accuses Sophocles of advocating fratricide and incest, though both are dealt with in his play Oedipus Rex. No one accuses Shakespeare of advocating mass murder, though many of his most famous plays have body counts that put many horror films to shame.

Does the tag line at the end of the video – “do your part” – transform the video from a depiction of murder  into an open call for it? No. The “threat,” such as it is, is vague; it’s not aimed at any specific individuals. It might be seen as akin to someone wearing a t-shirt that says “kill ‘em all, let God sort them out” – tasteless and offensive, but not a literal threat.  “Kill ‘Em All” is actually the name of Metallica’s first album. While a lot of people see James Hetfield,  Lars Ulrich et al as pompous idiots, they have not been jailed for conspiracy to commit mass murder. That would be ridiculous.

Someone claiming to have been involved in the SCUM-inspired theatrical production in question has posted several detailed comments on AVfM, explaining that those involved in the production are “not out to get you” and that the video itself was “meant as a viral “wtf?!” to give attention to both the questions that it raises and the play itself.”

By contrast, AVfM is targeting specific individuals, and intends to offer information that would allow anyone intent on doing them harm to quite literally track them to their homes and workplaces. Those fantasizing about killing these woman are not simply making a joke along the lines of “women, can’t live with ‘em; can’t kill ‘em.” They are fantasizing about killing real people, and providing would-be evil-doers maps to their doors.

AVfM is an American site, in English; these specific women live in Sweden. While it is a real possibility, it seems unlikely that anyone reading the site will literally find and murder any of those involved in the SCUM production. At least I hope that this does not come to pass.

I don’t believe that either Paul Elam or John the Other literally wants any feminist to be killed. The real intent behind AVfM’s publishing people’s personal information, it seems clear, is to intimidate feminist writers and activists into shutting up, to make clear that if they post something that offends the internet vigilantes at AVfM they will face the possibility of some deranged individual quite literally showing up at their door intent on doing them harm.

Paul Elam and John the Other claim that they’re not advocating violence. But they are playing a dangerous game here. If some deranged individual, inspired by the hyperbolic anti-feminist rhetoric on AVfM, and armed with information provided by “Register-Her.com,” murders or otherwise harms a feminist blogger or activist or video maker, Elam and his enablers will have blood on their hands. As will those MRAs who continue to publicly support and/or link to AVfM and/or Register-Her.com.

This is not the way a legitimate rights group deals with those who disagree with them. This is what hate groups do.

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cynickal
cynickal
13 years ago

*puts feet up to watch the chaos, cracks beer*

You know, for a guy so aloof and non-partisan, Brandon spends a lot of time and energy defending male privilege and trying to keep them durn wymynz from gettin’ too uppity!

hellkell
hellkell
13 years ago

I will defend a man because he probably has an understanding of loyalty, honor and pride.

I wasn’t aware that these traits were marked “men only.” Huh.

Your world is very, very sad, Brandon.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

where are all those women that are just dying to find a man to be a stay at home father

*waves her arms frantically* I am one of those women who wants a stay at home dad.

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

@Holly: No where did I say I wouldn’t take care of my children if I had them.

Amused
13 years ago

Amused, I want a link. How the heck did I miss *this*?

Molly, I’ll try to find it. In one of his comments yesterday, he said that he respects things without penises, such as nature, wild animals and women who aren’t feminists.

hellkell
hellkell
13 years ago

Of course you’d take care of them. After the paternity test, that is.

Amused
13 years ago

Of course you’d take care of them. After the paternity test, that is.

Don’t forget, for a man like Brandon, “taking care of a child” means an occasional soccer game once the child is old enough not to be a nuisance, plus nasty comments on the “nature of women”. Midnight feedings and changing poopy diapers? Not on your life.

hellkell
hellkell
13 years ago

Brandon would totes be there for the Kodak moments. Heavy lifting? That’s bitchwork.

VoiP
VoiP
13 years ago

You know, fuck it. If you don’t get it, you don’t get it. I am tired of explaining it.

You mean you know you have no argument? Admitting you have a problem is the first step toward getting help.

Holly Pervocracy
13 years ago

It’s also creepy that you want Ashley to work to make her strong and independent, instead of, you know, because the family needs the money. That’s infantilizing. It’s paternalistic.

And it’s a great example of how you don’t believe in equal treatment, because I imagine you’d throw quite the shitfit if Ashley started telling you that you had to stay home with the kids because it would make you a more sensitive and understanding man, it’s not about needing childcare, it’s for your own good sweetie.

Lauralot
Lauralot
13 years ago

Ashley can’t be a stay at home mom, but I bet you she’s doing all the household cleaning and diaper-changing when they both get home from work.

VoiP
VoiP
13 years ago

men were dragged away from their home to go die for “god and country” while women basically stayed home, safe and away from the bullets whizzing around men’s heads.

The Second World War is your example of this? The war that’s seen the most civilian casualties in history? That war?

lol nope

I wont let Ashley stay at home if we did have kids. She needs to be able to provide for herself without relying 100% on me.

That makes her strong and independent.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, and Ashley (“Ashley”) doing whatever I goddamn tell her to is independence. THANKS, MINISTRY OF BRANDON

“Just come out and admit it: You just hate men. And you feel the need to diminish everything they do. From building businesses to inventing something to dying to protect their families.”

u mad?

VoiP
VoiP
13 years ago

Men’s choice = work or be homeless

My boyfriend isn’t working because he’s got severe Asperger’s and epilepsy. Maybe he won’t ever be able to get a job, despite his intelligence, because his CV sucks. I support him with what I make as a grad student. Care to talk to us about our lives? OF COURSE NOT

Molly Ren
13 years ago

Dammit, now that Brandon’s left I’ll *never know* what drastic ways I’d be left out in the cold by my friends if I only had a penis!

VoiP
VoiP
13 years ago

I love how Brandon’s so super above it all until we actually start getting to him and then INTERNET RAAAAAGE XD

VoiP
VoiP
13 years ago

Ahahah, I didn’t catch this:
I wont let Ashley stay at home if we did have kids. She needs to be able to provide for herself without relying 100% on me.
So.
Ashley needs to not rely on you. In fact, she needs to be so financially independent of you that you will never marry her. She’ll be supporting herself while she raises your children. Because she’ll also have to raise the kids, she won’t advance as far in her job as she otherwise would have, so she may never make as much as you do. But because you’re not married she won’t even have a claim on your property.

This may not be sex slavery, but it’s in the same zip code. Brofive.

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

Ya, I don’t really get mad. And I am certainly not getting into a big huff arguing with feminists. I think it is funny that some of you think I am mashing on my keyboard yelling at my monitor.

Also, I do my own cleaning, laundry and household chores. This is due to the fact that Ashley doesn’t live with me. She has her place and I have mine. So the notion that she is my chore slave is just funny because it isn’t even in the same realm what is true.

@Voip: So two financially independent sharing parenting responsibility is now sex slavery?

So you as one individual are bucking trends and taking care of your boyfriend, that’s nice. But that is not the general trend in society.

Lauralot
Lauralot
13 years ago

I note he didn’t challenge the notion that Ashley would be the one doing all the child-rearing.

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

@Holly: I used “strong and independent” because it it often something feminists chant. I was actually subtly making fun of feminism. But whatever.

My main reasons for Ashley to work are:

1) I want a girlfriend that is self sufficient or close to it
2) I don’t want to be the provider
3) She should contribute financially to the household
4) Her leaving the workforce will stall her earning potential

Lauralot
Lauralot
13 years ago

“I was actually subtly making fun of feminism.”

See, your first mistake was thinking that you’re capable of subtlety.

Rutee Katreya
13 years ago

I note he didn’t challenge the notion that Ashley would be the one doing all the child-rearing.

He’s backed off of a LOT of claims, very quietly. Women don’t get drafted? (Protip, Brandon: Don’t make absolutes about human history and culture. You will probably be wrong). Vanished into the aether, rather than a concession of wrongness. “I TOTALLY MEANT THAT WESTERN WOMEN HAVE IT EASY COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE WORLd”? Gone. XD

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

@Rutee: So there was a few societies that drafted women. That doesn’t change the fact that there has 1) never been a society that ONLY drafted women and 2) there have been and are societies that ONLY draft men.

Holly Pervocracy
13 years ago

I’m officially bored to death of the Brandon Show Starring Brandon (special guest star: Ashley The Ever-Compliant!) now.

Can we have some designated thread that’s called “Post about the draft, stay-at-home moms, VAWA, Title IX, how men and women Just Are, and all other completely fucking random opinions here and not on posts that are actually about things“? And we’d let it get to 5000 pages of comments and it would just keep all this crap in one place.

Lauralot
Lauralot
13 years ago

I second Holly’s idea. Or I’m for banning. All the banning.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Those goal posts moving went so fast I actually felt the wind from the passing. Wow.

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