A Voice for Men, one of the most influential and popular Men’s Rights websites, is now offering a $1000 “bounty” for anyone able to track down the personal information of several Swedish women involved in a tasteless video advertising a theater production based on Valarie Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. As the anonymous poster calling himself John the Other – the second-in-command at AVfM – put it in a posting yesterday (emphasis in original):
We are asking for the full legal names, home addresses, places of employment, email addresses and contact phone numbers of the women and man who produced and starred in the video described above. We will pay 1000 dollars to any individual who provides and confirms this information, to be paid either directly to themselves or to a charity of their choice.
John explains that this information will be posted on the AVfM-affiliated site Register-Her.com, an “offenders database” that is being used to vilify individual feminists and “Fuck Their Shit Up,” as AVfM head honcho Paul Elam likes to put it. John notes that Regsiter-Her.com also intends to post the “government identification numbers [and] drivers licences” of the women they are able to identify.
John admits plainly that posting such information may put the physical safety of these women at risk from vigilante violence. As he puts it (emphasis mine):
Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.
The comments posted on the article at AVfM suggest that such “retributive” violence is a real possibility. Indeed, here’s the very first comment (which currently has 17 upvotes from readers of the site):
A commenter called Xnomolos, in another upvoted comment, adds:
i would love to hunt down these women myself.
JinnBottle responds to this comment by advising “all men to start carrying guns.”
The commenters on AVfM have already uncovered the identities of all of the women involved in the video. The blogger Fidelbogen has been the most active internet detective so far.
There is no question that the video itself is offensive, and designed to provoke. You can see it here; I’m not going to embed it on this site. If you don’t want to watch it: it depicts a young woman shooting a man in the head for no reason. Afterwards the woman and her gleeful, giggling accomplices do a victory dance, then lick the blood from the dead man’s head. A message at the end urges viewers to “Do Your Part.”
Every feminist I know who has seen the video has been appalled by it. I’m appalled by it. It’s hateful, and it’s wrong.
But John the Other, and the other commenters on AVfM, claim that it is more than this: that that the video of the staged murder, intended to provide publicity for a theater production based on Solanas’ notorious SCUM manifesto, is quite literally an open call for the murder of men. As John the Other puts it:
Open advocation of murder cannot be allowed in a civil society, without that society devolving into a culture of brutal violence.
Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.
Is the video a literal call to murder? Is it, as one AVfM commenter puts it, evidence of a “conspiracy to commit mass murder?” No. Violence and murder have been dramatized in the theater since its beginnings. No one accuses Sophocles of advocating fratricide and incest, though both are dealt with in his play Oedipus Rex. No one accuses Shakespeare of advocating mass murder, though many of his most famous plays have body counts that put many horror films to shame.
Does the tag line at the end of the video – “do your part” – transform the video from a depiction of murder into an open call for it? No. The “threat,” such as it is, is vague; it’s not aimed at any specific individuals. It might be seen as akin to someone wearing a t-shirt that says “kill ‘em all, let God sort them out” – tasteless and offensive, but not a literal threat. “Kill ‘Em All” is actually the name of Metallica’s first album. While a lot of people see James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich et al as pompous idiots, they have not been jailed for conspiracy to commit mass murder. That would be ridiculous.
Someone claiming to have been involved in the SCUM-inspired theatrical production in question has posted several detailed comments on AVfM, explaining that those involved in the production are “not out to get you” and that the video itself was “meant as a viral “wtf?!” to give attention to both the questions that it raises and the play itself.”
By contrast, AVfM is targeting specific individuals, and intends to offer information that would allow anyone intent on doing them harm to quite literally track them to their homes and workplaces. Those fantasizing about killing these woman are not simply making a joke along the lines of “women, can’t live with ‘em; can’t kill ‘em.” They are fantasizing about killing real people, and providing would-be evil-doers maps to their doors.
AVfM is an American site, in English; these specific women live in Sweden. While it is a real possibility, it seems unlikely that anyone reading the site will literally find and murder any of those involved in the SCUM production. At least I hope that this does not come to pass.
I don’t believe that either Paul Elam or John the Other literally wants any feminist to be killed. The real intent behind AVfM’s publishing people’s personal information, it seems clear, is to intimidate feminist writers and activists into shutting up, to make clear that if they post something that offends the internet vigilantes at AVfM they will face the possibility of some deranged individual quite literally showing up at their door intent on doing them harm.
Paul Elam and John the Other claim that they’re not advocating violence. But they are playing a dangerous game here. If some deranged individual, inspired by the hyperbolic anti-feminist rhetoric on AVfM, and armed with information provided by “Register-Her.com,” murders or otherwise harms a feminist blogger or activist or video maker, Elam and his enablers will have blood on their hands. As will those MRAs who continue to publicly support and/or link to AVfM and/or Register-Her.com.
This is not the way a legitimate rights group deals with those who disagree with them. This is what hate groups do.
@Molly: I get along fine with men. I will defend a man because he probably has an understanding of loyalty, honor and pride.
Also, it isn’t that men treat each other coldly or without feeling. It’s that men give women so much more attention. My male friends are great men and I know that they care about me and would stick up for me if needed. But if you and I switched places, you would probably feel like they are uncaring because they would be giving you less attention and consideration than they gave me.
@Rutee: By that logic, I am not an MRA. I want women out of the kitchen and working so that she can take care of herself instead of relying on me to provide for her. This is why I wont let Ashley stay at home if we did have kids. She needs to be able to provide for herself without relying 100% on me.
That makes her strong and independent.
This just in: it’s impossible for stay-at-home parents to be strong and independent!
Also, your husband gets to decide whether or not you have a career. It’s not a mutual decision and it’s not up for discussion.
@Holly: I have no problems with women in the military or in the workforce. I just don’t think we need a double standard. One standard will do just fine.
The world isn’t just the United States of America. In Europe, women fought on the battlefield, such as my grandmother, who served in combat for the Soviet Union. Their lives were just as bloody and dangerous as those of men — but, at least as far as Russia is concerned, female soldiers got worse food, worse clothes, and inferior housing compared to male soldiers. Moreover, women drafted underage (such as my grandmother) were later denied veteran status and benefits BECAUSE they had been drafted illegally. Men who were drafted underage received the full package of benefits. So kindly shut the fuck up about what women in World War 2 did or didn’t experience, and who made the “ultimate sacrifice”. It seems women in wartime are safe at home — unless they are not. And when they are not, they are thrown under the tank, often literally.
But why should anyone be surprised by any stupid thing you say? After all, you are a guy who thinks wild animals don’t have penises.
@Lauralot: That female entitlement of yours is showing. How nice is it that women actually GET a choice in having a career. How nice indeed!
Men’s choice = work or be homeless
I agree completely.
…but I suspect we mean something completely different by it.
Or you know, be a stay at home father.
And before you tell me that’s not possible, I’ve met several, you jackass.
@Holly: I mean holding women to exactly the same standards that men are held too. Fair is fair.
@Brandon: OK, you’re not an MRA.
BUt as noted by someone upthread, or maybe in another thread, you’re an unaffiliated misogynist.
THere, happy?
@Laura: Ya, where are all those women that are just dying to find a man to be a stay at home father….oh right pretty much non existent. Like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
“@Laura: Ya, where are all those women that are just dying to find a man to be a stay at home father….oh right pretty much non existent. Like trying to find a needle in a haystack.”
Maybe in your world, where the only colors are black and white. Most mothers I know would rejoice at their husbands taking more responsibility with their children.
As opposed to all those men who are just dying to financially support a woman? Right, you are full o’ shit.
The funny thing is, assholes like Brandon who look down on the thought of stay at home dads are a big part of why there aren’t more stay at home dads.
“Also, it isn’t that men treat each other coldly or without feeling. It’s that men give women so much more attention. My male friends are great men and I know that they care about me and would stick up for me if needed. But if you and I switched places, you would probably feel like they are uncaring because they would be giving you less attention and consideration than they gave me.”
You’re not really making a great argument here, Brandon. You know your male friends care about you because… they give you less attention than their girlfriends? Like, what are you missing out on here that would rock my world so horribly?
My friend Deep End has a full time job and a girlfriend that he lives with. It’s kinda inevitable that he’s going to spend more time occupied with these things than with me because , but that doesn’t mean I feel “unloved, not cared for, emotionally cold and generally feel like you don’t matter.” We still have offered to help each other out when times were rough, helped clean up after each other’s parties, commiserated with each other’s problems, etc.
@ithiliana: So you think I am a misogynist. Really? Because I seem to love the women in my life…but who knew.
Brandon, seriously, your attitude towards stay at home parents is offensive to men AND women who DO choose that.
You are honestly terrible at ‘defending’ men.
Absolutely! Fair is fair! However with your previous statements it always seems to come around to “women should have equal responsibilities and fewer privileges.” You’d expect the mother of your children to work, but you wouldn’t expect yourself to care for the kids.
Holy cow, I left out a whole sentence there. “*because we have separate lives” is what it should read.
“But why should anyone be surprised by any stupid thing you say? After all, you are a guy who thinks wild animals don’t have penises.”
Amused, I want a link. How the heck did I miss *this*? 😛
@Brandon: Yup.
You probably do love some of the women in your life; that does not mean you are NOT a misogynist.
The crap you say on this forum reeks of entitlement and misogyny.
You’re not as virulent in some ways as NWO and DKM, but one doesn’t have to capslock and use exclamation points to express misogyny–it can be expressed completely politely in language fit for public society (because misogyny is so interwoven into society).
And as a misogynist, you’ve made it clear you sympathize a lot more with “MRM” than “feminism.”
@Molly: This is getting pointless. Of course men are going to spend more time with their girlfriends than there male friends.
You know, fuck it. If you don’t get it, you don’t get it. I am tired of explaining it.
Um, Brandon? Most *people* have to work or be homeless, unless they have family they can turn to.
“You’d expect the mother of your children to work, but you wouldn’t expect yourself to care for the kids.”
It’s also funny that me pointing out a woman should be able to choose a career, just like a man, is female privilege. Ashley doesn’t get any choice in the matter, and nor should she, because she has a vagina.
Brandon: I’m asking questions because *I genuinely don’t get what you mean*. If I was in your place, HOW would I be treated differently? Just one example would help.