A Voice for Men, one of the most influential and popular Men’s Rights websites, is now offering a $1000 “bounty” for anyone able to track down the personal information of several Swedish women involved in a tasteless video advertising a theater production based on Valarie Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. As the anonymous poster calling himself John the Other – the second-in-command at AVfM – put it in a posting yesterday (emphasis in original):
We are asking for the full legal names, home addresses, places of employment, email addresses and contact phone numbers of the women and man who produced and starred in the video described above. We will pay 1000 dollars to any individual who provides and confirms this information, to be paid either directly to themselves or to a charity of their choice.
John explains that this information will be posted on the AVfM-affiliated site Register-Her.com, an “offenders database” that is being used to vilify individual feminists and “Fuck Their Shit Up,” as AVfM head honcho Paul Elam likes to put it. John notes that Regsiter-Her.com also intends to post the “government identification numbers [and] drivers licences” of the women they are able to identify.
John admits plainly that posting such information may put the physical safety of these women at risk from vigilante violence. As he puts it (emphasis mine):
Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.
The comments posted on the article at AVfM suggest that such “retributive” violence is a real possibility. Indeed, here’s the very first comment (which currently has 17 upvotes from readers of the site):
A commenter called Xnomolos, in another upvoted comment, adds:
i would love to hunt down these women myself.
JinnBottle responds to this comment by advising “all men to start carrying guns.”
The commenters on AVfM have already uncovered the identities of all of the women involved in the video. The blogger Fidelbogen has been the most active internet detective so far.
There is no question that the video itself is offensive, and designed to provoke. You can see it here; I’m not going to embed it on this site. If you don’t want to watch it: it depicts a young woman shooting a man in the head for no reason. Afterwards the woman and her gleeful, giggling accomplices do a victory dance, then lick the blood from the dead man’s head. A message at the end urges viewers to “Do Your Part.”
Every feminist I know who has seen the video has been appalled by it. I’m appalled by it. It’s hateful, and it’s wrong.
But John the Other, and the other commenters on AVfM, claim that it is more than this: that that the video of the staged murder, intended to provide publicity for a theater production based on Solanas’ notorious SCUM manifesto, is quite literally an open call for the murder of men. As John the Other puts it:
Open advocation of murder cannot be allowed in a civil society, without that society devolving into a culture of brutal violence.
Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.
Is the video a literal call to murder? Is it, as one AVfM commenter puts it, evidence of a “conspiracy to commit mass murder?” No. Violence and murder have been dramatized in the theater since its beginnings. No one accuses Sophocles of advocating fratricide and incest, though both are dealt with in his play Oedipus Rex. No one accuses Shakespeare of advocating mass murder, though many of his most famous plays have body counts that put many horror films to shame.
Does the tag line at the end of the video – “do your part” – transform the video from a depiction of murder into an open call for it? No. The “threat,” such as it is, is vague; it’s not aimed at any specific individuals. It might be seen as akin to someone wearing a t-shirt that says “kill ‘em all, let God sort them out” – tasteless and offensive, but not a literal threat. “Kill ‘Em All” is actually the name of Metallica’s first album. While a lot of people see James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich et al as pompous idiots, they have not been jailed for conspiracy to commit mass murder. That would be ridiculous.
Someone claiming to have been involved in the SCUM-inspired theatrical production in question has posted several detailed comments on AVfM, explaining that those involved in the production are “not out to get you” and that the video itself was “meant as a viral “wtf?!” to give attention to both the questions that it raises and the play itself.”
By contrast, AVfM is targeting specific individuals, and intends to offer information that would allow anyone intent on doing them harm to quite literally track them to their homes and workplaces. Those fantasizing about killing these woman are not simply making a joke along the lines of “women, can’t live with ‘em; can’t kill ‘em.” They are fantasizing about killing real people, and providing would-be evil-doers maps to their doors.
AVfM is an American site, in English; these specific women live in Sweden. While it is a real possibility, it seems unlikely that anyone reading the site will literally find and murder any of those involved in the SCUM production. At least I hope that this does not come to pass.
I don’t believe that either Paul Elam or John the Other literally wants any feminist to be killed. The real intent behind AVfM’s publishing people’s personal information, it seems clear, is to intimidate feminist writers and activists into shutting up, to make clear that if they post something that offends the internet vigilantes at AVfM they will face the possibility of some deranged individual quite literally showing up at their door intent on doing them harm.
Paul Elam and John the Other claim that they’re not advocating violence. But they are playing a dangerous game here. If some deranged individual, inspired by the hyperbolic anti-feminist rhetoric on AVfM, and armed with information provided by “Register-Her.com,” murders or otherwise harms a feminist blogger or activist or video maker, Elam and his enablers will have blood on their hands. As will those MRAs who continue to publicly support and/or link to AVfM and/or Register-Her.com.
This is not the way a legitimate rights group deals with those who disagree with them. This is what hate groups do.
Didn’t do a proper-proper translation, so some idiosyncracies of the Swedish language probably appears.
Shit, better de-lurk.
@Happy Anti-MRA Cheers for linking my piece. I wrote it yesterday in a fit of pique after reading this, then had to spend the afternoon swamped by mansplaining concern-trolls on Twitter, telling me that they just thought that putting videos like that on Youtube wasn’t very good for feminism and could probably turn men away from it. Fun.
@Wetherby I bloody love Palfi, but I’ve never seen Hukkle. I shall certainly check it out 🙂
Did mention of Br*ndon get banned? Because I can’t believe no one has pointed out to him that if he put down the SCUM Manifesto down after ten pages then he’d finished the pamphlet.
Coming from Voldemort, this is rich. I’m going to bask in the absolute irony for a moment, BRB.
Brandon wrote, “Really? Would it be crazy to think that a Mein Kampf play would bash jews?”
Well, there was Springtime for Hitler…
Women in America are oppressed? HAHAHAHAHAHA
American women are some of the most protected, coddled, privileged people in the world.
If the US was really oppressing women, then they would be forced into the most dangerous jobs and handed a rifle to go kill people “for their country”. Oh…wait! Silly me, it’s been men that have been forced to do that. At no point in history have women in droves been forced to take up arms, leave home and go kill people they don’t even know. And what is even funnier is feminists think that is privilege. What privilege is it? The privilege to die for your country?
Women aren’t in mines or working oil rigs not because men are holding them back but because women 1) don’t want to do those jobs 2) most women are perfectly fine with men doing those jobs instead and 3) men are more than willing to put themselves in danger so their wives/girlfriends/mothers/sisters/etc… aren’t put into danger.
Men basically coddle women (mainly because we care about your safety and don’t want to see you hurt) and I think over time I see that changing. If anything the MRA’s are teaching men that they don’t have to be “providers” or “breadwinners”. They don’t have to put themselves in harms way to protect women, Men can basically treat women like they treat men. And quite frankly, I don’t think a lot of women would really want men to start treating them the same as men.
@Hellkell: Yes an open mind. By calling myself a feminist and believing in feminist dogma. I would have to close my mind.
If an obscure play tells you what everyone in a country likes, popular movies are even more indicative, right? Therefore, Americans are cross-dressing feline adventurer vampire warrior penguins. Who commit crimes of revenge and then put themselves in jail for it.
Sharculese:
And in the early 19th century you didn’t see black people worrying about voter intimidation and police hostility, thus proving those are trivial, invented issues.
kirby:
And what was the context? “Quality work” can refer to technical proficiency completely independent of the content.
Rutee:
It may be a real person’s real sentiment, but it’s not some massive thing. This may indicate that it happened; it definitely doesn’t mean that it’s widespread, typical, or endorsed by feminists.
Brandon:
If you think Massachusetts is a horrible place, that’s your opinion and unassailable. If you think Massachusetts is a horrible place because of the law requiring all teachers and public officials to be gay, your opinion is based on a “fact,” and the opinion is still unassailable but the fact is wrong..
Brandon:
A play based on Mein Kampf? Yes, that would almost certainly bash Jews, at least on the surface. A play about Mein Kampf? Depends on whether it’s sympathetic or not.
Either way, an ad for it that appeared to approvingly show the book’s ideas being carried out would offend many Americans and a vast majority of Manboobzers.
Dude, feminism’s already been working on that score. As far as the draft, oh, fuck it, this has been explained. If you’re too dense to get it, too bad.
Utter horseshit. A lot of women do go into those jobs, only to pressured out due to sexism.
Did you hunt the mammoth too, honey bunch?
So nice of you to finally come out as an MRA.
“Women aren’t in mines or working oil rigs not because men are holding them back but because women 1) don’t want to do those jobs 2) most women are perfectly fine with men doing those jobs instead and 3) men are more than willing to put themselves in danger so their wives/girlfriends/mothers/sisters/etc… aren’t put into danger.”
Aww, Brandon. Next you’ll be telling us there are no female fighter pilots.
“And quite frankly, I don’t think a lot of women would really want men to start treating them the same as men.”
How do men treat other men, in your worldview? Are men never friends? Do they only have sexual relationships with each other for monetary gain? Do they view other men only as competitors?
I mean, dude, if men only put themselves into danger for women *because* they’re women, that doesn’t say much about how you view your fellow *men*.
Oh, and you don’t give one tiny fuck about our safety. You don’t give that about anything that isn’t about you. Nice try.
If you weren’t brandon, this might be a powerful point to remind people how lucky we are to be in a developed country. But you are Brandon, and that’s not what you mean. You mean “In comparison to USian Men”. And the idea that women are not oppressed in comparison is laughable.
No. Nobody has been. There is no draft. There will be no draft until Meriken either support conquest again, or nukes are made a non-issue.
The Soviet Union conscripted women as well as men, off the very top of my head, as well as the Vietcong.
Women are in those jobs, you sexist git. For a guy who claims to be ‘above it all’, you haven’t even grasped basic points of both sides, only one. You’re an MRA who doesn’t want to claim group membership. It’s almost pathetic.
Um, no, they teach men to leave women to rot. This is a subtle difference. Feminism wants barriers that make it more difficult for women to work, to be destroyed. This drops financial pressure from men. That actually *does* teach men they don’t have to be ‘providers’.
You’ve never been treated a sa woman, so you have no earthly idea what you’re talking about. A bit of coarse language and competitiveness is nothing compared to the torrents of sexual abuse and jackassery. And I promise you, I know exactly what I’m talking about.
The book on North Country was illuminating as to why women generally do not work in mines despite their desire to.
But of course Brandon will assume it just means that the men were mean once in a while (instead of a brutal campaign deliberately designed to drive any woman out of the mine) so therefore women do not want to work in mines because um…it is dirty! Yeah that is it.
Oh, yeah, I can’t believe I missed this: “At no point in history have women in droves been forced to take up arms, leave home and go kill people they don’t even know.”
Brandon, did you know that, right now, China drafts women in its armies?
@Brandon: YAWNS. Spend a few moments googling, fartface, before claiming things about women never working on oil rigs or in mines:
http://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8&ion=1&nord=1#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&nord=1&site=webhp&source=hp&q=women%20oil%20rig%20workers&pbx=1&oq=&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&fp=6d0e5b4e6ecb23a2&ion=1&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=6d0e5b4e6ecb23a2&biw=1280&bih=939&ion=1
http://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8&ion=1&nord=1#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&nord=1&site=webhp&source=hp&q=women%20mine%20workers&pbx=1&oq=&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&fp=6d0e5b4e6ecb23a2&ion=1&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=6d0e5b4e6ecb23a2&biw=1280&bih=939&ion=1
You and Mellor, so much ignorance HURTS in the age of easy internet access.
And yet overall, I agree that American women (especially white) are greatly privileged when looking at the situation from a global perspective.
BUT SO ARE AMERICAN MEN DICKBISCUIT.
@hellkell:
1) Again I am not an MRA/PUA or MGTOW.
2) Feminism hasn’t done shit for men directly. If feminism benefited men it is only because it benefited women first. Feminists surely wouldn’t do anything for men if it meant anything bad to happen to women. To feminists gender trumphs everything…even honor, loyalty and fairness.
3) I care about you the same way I care about “random dude in China”. I don’t. However, I care about my mothers/step mothers/step sisters/aunts/etc… safety very much.
4) Utter bullshit?! Doubtful. There are TONS of women (read 80%+) out their that still see work that is physically demanding as “mans work”. Heavy lifting, manual labor, etc… While I love volunteering and working with the women there, anything that deals with moving heavy shit or doing maintenance…they are the first to say “oh let the men do it, that is why they are here”.
@Molly: Men don’t go running to the aid of other men the same way they run to a woman’s aid. If men treated women exactly as they treat their male friends, I bet you would feel unloved, not cared for, emotionally cold and generally feel like you don’t matter.
Hey Brandon: Stop telling us what feminism does or doesn’t do. We know a hell of a lot more about it than you do.
Brandon and other draftey-trolls: It’s trivia time!
Who invented drafts*, who declared wars* and sent men kill each other? Was it:
A. Angry feminists who wanted to take the power and kill men for the lulz.
B. Mean and stupid** women who wanted new exotic clothes.
C. Some men, because mostly-to-only men had political power.
answer D is for conspiracy fans only:
D. Men who were manipulated/coerced into doing it by their wives. Just because.
__________________________
*I’m gonna be realist on my history knowledge and add a ‘most’ just in case.
** I said stupid because it’s much easier and cheaper to commerce with an other country than to make a war.
But we know less about the one thing that matters: Brandon.
Oh we totally believe you after what you just said about the mines, skippy XD
@Rutee: No, I think American women have it better than say African men or even Chinese men. If American men are at the top, then American women are directly below them and everyone else follows after that.
I am not talking solely about the draft. I am talking about army’s through out history have forced men to fight for them or die. It isn’t just about the US armed forces, but the soviets, nazi’s, chinese, romans, greeks, japanese, etc… Can you point to one of them where a large percentage of the women were forced to go kill people? Sure you have a few female sniper regiments in the USSR. But I am talking about forcing MILLIONS of women into the trenches and fighting directly on the front line.
The idea that women have suffered from forced conscription to fight in wars is even remotely comparable to men is laughable. What next? Are you going to make the claim that blacks had it better than white people during slavery?
Women typically make up less than 25% of personnel when it comes to dangerous jobs. Even still, I have never met ONE female chainhand or toolpusher.
How exactly can you leave women to rot? I am curious.
“@Molly: Men don’t go running to the aid of other men the same way they run to a woman’s aid. If men treated women exactly as they treat their male friends, I bet you would feel unloved, not cared for, emotionally cold and generally feel like you don’t matter.”
So if someone in your family died, none of your male friends would say anything?
If you got really, really drunk one night, none of your male friends would at least help you stagger out to a cab?
If (god forbid) your business had a bad patch, could you ask one of your male friends to loan you a small amount of money?
If someone treated you badly, would none of your male friends be indignant on your behalf?
I’m trying to keep it real, real simple here, Brandon. These are things that I’ve seen men do for other men, and it’s not even stuff that requires special skills like saying “I love you” or cooking a casserole. Unless you mean “If I sat in the street and cried, no man would give me a sandwich, because I’m not a woman!”, you’re pretty much saying that men never treat each other like humans.
People, let’s respect everybody’s right to be unaffiliated misogynists! Sure, the MRA label make things easier, but we can manage without it.
Brandon, I repeat my my question: who declared these wars? Who, basically, made the rules? (including the rules who says the infinity of things women couldn’t do)
@ whetherby
‘It’s a terrific little film, and obviously satirical’
Is hukkle not based upon Nagyrév, Hungary where a group of women killed 300 odd men? (or possibly 45 men if you believe the ring leader). I mean is it not based upon an actual murder case, along with the documentary ‘the angel markers fo nagév’ which the same director shot 3 years later.
@mollyren @hellkell ‘men are both at the top of the economy scale and at the bottom. Of the 25 professions ranked the lowest [in the US], 24 of them are 85-100 per cent male. That’s things like roofer, welder, garbage collector, sewer maintenance – jobs with very little security, little pay and few people want them.’’ – will farrell referring to jobs rated alamac.
‘Utter horseshit. A lot of women do go into those jobs, only to pressured out due to sexism. ‘
Please show me a source of women being forced out of waste disposal due to sexism. Your really going to say that men are discriminating against women in order to keep the worst jobs to themselves?
@Molly: Clearly you aren’t a man. Because if you were, you would be able to see the very subtle difference in how men treat other men compared to how they treat women. You might be able to “see” all the bad crap men do, but you don’t get that men often go above and beyond for women.
@Kyrie: Oh, I forgot…all men have a direct line to the men that have ruled us. Because of this, it makes men into one monolithic group so we can all be blamed for the actions of a few.
You don’t know what China is like, at all, really.
But no, again, we know it’s you, Brandon, and you are a narcissist. IF you meant in comparison to the unfortunate poor in undeveloped countries, normal MRA talking points wouldn’t have been your go to (FYI, women are also major combatants in West AFrican Civil Wars.). Your first points were to the standard “WE HUNT THE MODERN DAY MAMMOTH” for you, not “You have fucking hospitals and internet!”. You mean in comparison to USian men. You may think we are as stupid as you, but this would be a rather grave error.
Then you are increasingly becoming more wrong. Women have been press ganged into combat, which is what I meant by the Vietcong.
Soviets: Bad example, I just said they conscripted women.
Greeks: You do realize that the women of Sparta were also forced into the warrior culture, right? They just didn’t get any of the spoils of war.
Also, Ancient Greece and Rome are not where I would turn to say “OMG TEH MENZ WERE OPPRESSED, WIMMENZ WERE SHELTERED”. Ditto Japan, China.
Can you point to one of them where a large percentage of the women were forced to go kill people?
No. And you’d have a very hard time finding one where a large percentage of the men were forced to go kill people. Believe it or not, soldiers are usually a minority.
True, and it’s a good thing I didn’t say that. I pointed out that women have faced conscription, and it should be blindingly obvious that they’ve served, *In combat roles*, but I didn’t say they did so in the same numbers.
“Your really going to say that men are discriminating against women in order to keep the worst jobs to themselves?”
You don’t get out much, do you?