A Voice for Men, one of the most influential and popular Men’s Rights websites, is now offering a $1000 “bounty” for anyone able to track down the personal information of several Swedish women involved in a tasteless video advertising a theater production based on Valarie Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. As the anonymous poster calling himself John the Other – the second-in-command at AVfM – put it in a posting yesterday (emphasis in original):
We are asking for the full legal names, home addresses, places of employment, email addresses and contact phone numbers of the women and man who produced and starred in the video described above. We will pay 1000 dollars to any individual who provides and confirms this information, to be paid either directly to themselves or to a charity of their choice.
John explains that this information will be posted on the AVfM-affiliated site Register-Her.com, an “offenders database” that is being used to vilify individual feminists and “Fuck Their Shit Up,” as AVfM head honcho Paul Elam likes to put it. John notes that Regsiter-Her.com also intends to post the “government identification numbers [and] drivers licences” of the women they are able to identify.
John admits plainly that posting such information may put the physical safety of these women at risk from vigilante violence. As he puts it (emphasis mine):
Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.
The comments posted on the article at AVfM suggest that such “retributive” violence is a real possibility. Indeed, here’s the very first comment (which currently has 17 upvotes from readers of the site):
A commenter called Xnomolos, in another upvoted comment, adds:
i would love to hunt down these women myself.
JinnBottle responds to this comment by advising “all men to start carrying guns.”
The commenters on AVfM have already uncovered the identities of all of the women involved in the video. The blogger Fidelbogen has been the most active internet detective so far.
There is no question that the video itself is offensive, and designed to provoke. You can see it here; I’m not going to embed it on this site. If you don’t want to watch it: it depicts a young woman shooting a man in the head for no reason. Afterwards the woman and her gleeful, giggling accomplices do a victory dance, then lick the blood from the dead man’s head. A message at the end urges viewers to “Do Your Part.”
Every feminist I know who has seen the video has been appalled by it. I’m appalled by it. It’s hateful, and it’s wrong.
But John the Other, and the other commenters on AVfM, claim that it is more than this: that that the video of the staged murder, intended to provide publicity for a theater production based on Solanas’ notorious SCUM manifesto, is quite literally an open call for the murder of men. As John the Other puts it:
Open advocation of murder cannot be allowed in a civil society, without that society devolving into a culture of brutal violence.
Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.
Is the video a literal call to murder? Is it, as one AVfM commenter puts it, evidence of a “conspiracy to commit mass murder?” No. Violence and murder have been dramatized in the theater since its beginnings. No one accuses Sophocles of advocating fratricide and incest, though both are dealt with in his play Oedipus Rex. No one accuses Shakespeare of advocating mass murder, though many of his most famous plays have body counts that put many horror films to shame.
Does the tag line at the end of the video – “do your part” – transform the video from a depiction of murder into an open call for it? No. The “threat,” such as it is, is vague; it’s not aimed at any specific individuals. It might be seen as akin to someone wearing a t-shirt that says “kill ‘em all, let God sort them out” – tasteless and offensive, but not a literal threat. “Kill ‘Em All” is actually the name of Metallica’s first album. While a lot of people see James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich et al as pompous idiots, they have not been jailed for conspiracy to commit mass murder. That would be ridiculous.
Someone claiming to have been involved in the SCUM-inspired theatrical production in question has posted several detailed comments on AVfM, explaining that those involved in the production are “not out to get you” and that the video itself was “meant as a viral “wtf?!” to give attention to both the questions that it raises and the play itself.”
By contrast, AVfM is targeting specific individuals, and intends to offer information that would allow anyone intent on doing them harm to quite literally track them to their homes and workplaces. Those fantasizing about killing these woman are not simply making a joke along the lines of “women, can’t live with ‘em; can’t kill ‘em.” They are fantasizing about killing real people, and providing would-be evil-doers maps to their doors.
AVfM is an American site, in English; these specific women live in Sweden. While it is a real possibility, it seems unlikely that anyone reading the site will literally find and murder any of those involved in the SCUM production. At least I hope that this does not come to pass.
I don’t believe that either Paul Elam or John the Other literally wants any feminist to be killed. The real intent behind AVfM’s publishing people’s personal information, it seems clear, is to intimidate feminist writers and activists into shutting up, to make clear that if they post something that offends the internet vigilantes at AVfM they will face the possibility of some deranged individual quite literally showing up at their door intent on doing them harm.
Paul Elam and John the Other claim that they’re not advocating violence. But they are playing a dangerous game here. If some deranged individual, inspired by the hyperbolic anti-feminist rhetoric on AVfM, and armed with information provided by “Register-Her.com,” murders or otherwise harms a feminist blogger or activist or video maker, Elam and his enablers will have blood on their hands. As will those MRAs who continue to publicly support and/or link to AVfM and/or Register-Her.com.
This is not the way a legitimate rights group deals with those who disagree with them. This is what hate groups do.
@Brandon:
“How about I go see it and make up my own mind as opposed to accepting another person/group/committees opinion (and it is an opinion) of a movie.”
Awesome, form your own opinions! Great. But if you’re trying to decide whether a video is representative of an entire country, don’t expect that opinion to be correct.
“A Catalogue Of Lies”…O.M.G. The irony, it buuuuuuurns!
Brandon, expert in all thing Swedish! Except for knowing anything at all about their broadcasting commission. Thanks for playing, but you lose at statistically significant sampling.
Uhm…. G. I. Joes *are* dolls. I guess this proves Brandon isn’t, in fact, aware of what’s going on.
@SaruGoku
““A Catalogue Of Lies”…O.M.G. The irony, it buuuuuuurns!”
Well, just to ask, does it actually say who is lying? :-p
@Brandon
“First of all, who is Evin Rubar? Why should I accept their authority, recommendations or verdicts? How do I know they don’t have an agenda?”
ftfy
@Kirby: I am well aware of confirmation bias. I try to overcome that by not just following news sites that I agree with. I use Google Reader and I subscribe to Left/Right, Feminist/MRA/PUA, Capitalist/Socialist/Communist, etc,, sites.
Actually, while I think David F’s writing is childish and he gets all wound up over the dumbest things (e.g the two-period period crap). Manboobz does serve a purpose. Every group needs a counter to keep it in check.
I guess the best way would be to visit or move to Sweden for an extended period of time, but 1) I have no desire to learn swedish and 2) I cant think of one thing I want to see in Sweden.
But your complaint was that you felt the video represented mainstream thought in Sweden, and that the Swedish goverment supports ideas like that. The agency created by the government to monitor broadcasting did not approve of the video, therefore it does not in fact represent what’s acceptable to the mainstream in Sweden, or to the Swedish government. Therefore you are both moving the goalposts and full of shit, as usual.
You’re also arguing that an agency that agrees with you shouldn’t be regarded as legitimate, which is just stupid.
It’s hard for everyone to keep saying this video is disgusting and that all the feminists/most the feminist/every feminist man boobz knows is disgusted by it when you keep calling it satire, there was no indication on the video that it was infact satire.
Guys, nowhere in “A Modest Proposal” did Jonathan Swift say, “ALSO I AM KIDDING ABOUT THE EATING BABIES THING.” How can you argue that he didn’t really think we should eat babies? Eating babies is pretty disgusting, so clearly Swift is a monster. If he weren’t, he would have made sure to end his essay with “LOL JK DON’T EAT BABIES,” since no one could possibly expect people to figure that out on their own. This logic is infallible!
Also the director, producer and indeed cast are members of a swedish facebook group named exterminate men, which the director assures the public is an inside joke, from a video, they released 6 months ago… etc.
Also, if Jonathan Swift did explicitly say that all the stuff about eating babies was a joke, this would apparently also not be evidence that he did not support eating babies? Or something? Whatever, let’s just slap his name and address up on Register-Dead-Irish-Baby-Cannibals.com! He probably deserves it anyway for being all dead and Irish and stuff.
@Brandon:
*epic facepalm*
Confirmation bias isn’t only listening to one side of the story… It’s only remembering one side of the story. Hell, I watch fox news on occasion. Does that make me unbiased? Nope.
Anyway, you keep sliding away from your original claim, that CassandraSays nicely recapped. Are you still sticking to your guns on that, or is the debate on that subject over?
You know when a cat slips, falls, and then shakes itself indignantly and swans off with nose in the air, pretending the undignified fall never happened? That’s what this reminds me of.
@Cynickal: Really? Are you that dumb? If I walk around the city asking people to describe “dolls”…I bet I wouldn’t get “GI JOE” as an answer. I would get standard crap like Bratz, Barbie, etc,,,
@Polliwog ‘Also, how did you, personally, manage to be so ignorant as to be completely unaware that sex-based selection of male over female babies is a major issue worldwide?’
China and India are hardly the world and any imbalance created will naturally repair itself.
I will not mention anything less than incredibly serious webistes from now on, I just felt I had to throw in some gentle casual misandry. Some people disagree that because a site isn’t funded and is a joke that is isn’t insulting and disgusting, I would list sites for sandwich jokes as offensive to women also.
http://noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/advertising-sins-hopeitsagirl-com/
As for gender preference being a world wide problem I don’t really want to link to a bunch of filicide sites or indeed
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,460166,00.html
Which puts a very positive spin on the murder of male babies to end war.
Perhaps China and Indian women are terminating female children to end poverty or disease?
Again I’m an ‘idiot’ who says ‘moronic’ things and ‘manage to be so ignorant as to be completely unaware that sex-based selection of male over female babies is a major issue worldwide?’, ad hominen attacks are hardly condussive to a discussion, someone asked for examples of misandry from this decade. I linked some and was insulted for my efforts, I’m sorry that nothing I found from casual joke websites, forced father hood, or indeed genocide was as interesting or outrageous to you as avfm posting personal details.
Heh…
Brandon: “This isn’t a doll, it’s an ACTION FIGURE!”
@Polliwog yes and there was no part of mein campf that said it was satire, but if hitler assured you it was satire and being a member of a group named ‘the final solution’ was also an inside joke etc…
We can of course take it on a case by case basis, and while you will hold avfm responsible for internet loons who harm anyone involved in this video, I will hold the video producers responsible for any loon who harms a man after being inspired by this video. Neither case is likely, but surely you can see both are possible? Shall I link to killers who blame random stupid things for their crimes?
Hmm. Actually going to Sweden to see the play (which I presume was in Swedish, not English) might give you the insight to be able to criticise it properly, since you are instead pre-judging it based on a deliberately controversial video. I notice you also suggested to Kirby that he should watch “The Gender War” before judging it – why aren’t you prepared to do the same with the play?
@Kirby: We are going around in circles, so this is just getting pointless.
1) You can help overcome confirmation bias by being more open minded. If you never watch, listen or read opposing views, you can never remember/forget them. The more open your mind is, the better.
2) This video is only a part of it. This video alone isn’t by itself evidence of mainstream thought, but from everything I have watched, listened to or read about sweden, paints the picture that sweden is trying to be the “feminist utopia”. Hell, even Jessica Valenti praised sweden’s rape laws which basically means the accused is guilty till proven innocent.
@Xanthe: I would never watch anything by solanas*. Just being in the audience would make me want to throw up. Even if the ticket was free, I would still feel dirty being in the crowd. SCUM is a flat out one of the worst things created. I don’t care if solanas or the girls in this video was just doing it for the lulz…it’s disgusting.
*I flipped through the SCUM book at a library. I read about 10 pages and wanted to puke.
@Brandon:
Yeah, we’re going in circles. You keep wandering away from the point, and I keep trying to bring you back. Round and round and round we go.
1. Of course I agree that listening to opposing views is good. I’m not saying that listening to the other side is pointless, I’m saying that confirmation bias is something entirely different, independent of what you have heard.
2. Again, with all this evidence, you think you could at least bring up one good example. AS for the rape laws, [citation needed], mostly because I’m finding it hard to come up with the actual codefied law. I’m only seeing a bunch of stuff about Assange. But if the “guilty till proven innocent” is the same as NWO’s version of “guilty till proven innocent,” I’m not buying it.
So yeah, circling back to the original point, you are trying to convince me that Sweden is anti-male. The examples you have brought up so far have been pretty bad. Do you want to bother to continue?
Seems like the only ones who lend any credence to SCUM are anti-feminists… That alone should say something.
Brandon, you don’t know whether the play held Solanas’ manifesto up to criticism and if it was viewed positively or negatively in the end. That cliché’s called “judging a book by its cover” – you don’t know the content of the play, you are simply writing it off because of the link to Solanas. Fine, but that doesn’t give your opinion on the play any weight, because it’s ignorant and unevidenced. (Like the majority of posters on AVfM on this subject, who presumably haven’t seen the play either.)
@Kirby:
My opinion is that based on what I have seen come out of Sweden…it is anti-man or at least anti-masculinity. I don’t have to explain myself to you. I am not writing a paper about swedish culture that I am going to hand into you for you to grade.
You think sweden isn’t anti-male, I do…let’s leave it at that.
Let’s leave it without any evidence so no one can tell me I’m wrong!
@Lauralot:
Sounds like a good way to win an argument, right?
Hmm… I think next time I try to enter into a debate with someone here, I should ask them upfront. “Are you expecting to convince me of your position, or expecting me to convince you of my position?” If the answer is no, might as well not bother. If your heart ain’t in it, it just ain’t fun. 🙁
I notice that he still hasn’t addressed the issue of the dancing goalposts.