A Voice for Men, one of the most influential and popular Men’s Rights websites, is now offering a $1000 “bounty” for anyone able to track down the personal information of several Swedish women involved in a tasteless video advertising a theater production based on Valarie Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. As the anonymous poster calling himself John the Other – the second-in-command at AVfM – put it in a posting yesterday (emphasis in original):
We are asking for the full legal names, home addresses, places of employment, email addresses and contact phone numbers of the women and man who produced and starred in the video described above. We will pay 1000 dollars to any individual who provides and confirms this information, to be paid either directly to themselves or to a charity of their choice.
John explains that this information will be posted on the AVfM-affiliated site Register-Her.com, an “offenders database” that is being used to vilify individual feminists and “Fuck Their Shit Up,” as AVfM head honcho Paul Elam likes to put it. John notes that Regsiter-Her.com also intends to post the “government identification numbers [and] drivers licences” of the women they are able to identify.
John admits plainly that posting such information may put the physical safety of these women at risk from vigilante violence. As he puts it (emphasis mine):
Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.
The comments posted on the article at AVfM suggest that such “retributive” violence is a real possibility. Indeed, here’s the very first comment (which currently has 17 upvotes from readers of the site):
A commenter called Xnomolos, in another upvoted comment, adds:
i would love to hunt down these women myself.
JinnBottle responds to this comment by advising “all men to start carrying guns.”
The commenters on AVfM have already uncovered the identities of all of the women involved in the video. The blogger Fidelbogen has been the most active internet detective so far.
There is no question that the video itself is offensive, and designed to provoke. You can see it here; I’m not going to embed it on this site. If you don’t want to watch it: it depicts a young woman shooting a man in the head for no reason. Afterwards the woman and her gleeful, giggling accomplices do a victory dance, then lick the blood from the dead man’s head. A message at the end urges viewers to “Do Your Part.”
Every feminist I know who has seen the video has been appalled by it. I’m appalled by it. It’s hateful, and it’s wrong.
But John the Other, and the other commenters on AVfM, claim that it is more than this: that that the video of the staged murder, intended to provide publicity for a theater production based on Solanas’ notorious SCUM manifesto, is quite literally an open call for the murder of men. As John the Other puts it:
Open advocation of murder cannot be allowed in a civil society, without that society devolving into a culture of brutal violence.
Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.
Is the video a literal call to murder? Is it, as one AVfM commenter puts it, evidence of a “conspiracy to commit mass murder?” No. Violence and murder have been dramatized in the theater since its beginnings. No one accuses Sophocles of advocating fratricide and incest, though both are dealt with in his play Oedipus Rex. No one accuses Shakespeare of advocating mass murder, though many of his most famous plays have body counts that put many horror films to shame.
Does the tag line at the end of the video – “do your part” – transform the video from a depiction of murder into an open call for it? No. The “threat,” such as it is, is vague; it’s not aimed at any specific individuals. It might be seen as akin to someone wearing a t-shirt that says “kill ‘em all, let God sort them out” – tasteless and offensive, but not a literal threat. “Kill ‘Em All” is actually the name of Metallica’s first album. While a lot of people see James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich et al as pompous idiots, they have not been jailed for conspiracy to commit mass murder. That would be ridiculous.
Someone claiming to have been involved in the SCUM-inspired theatrical production in question has posted several detailed comments on AVfM, explaining that those involved in the production are “not out to get you” and that the video itself was “meant as a viral “wtf?!” to give attention to both the questions that it raises and the play itself.”
By contrast, AVfM is targeting specific individuals, and intends to offer information that would allow anyone intent on doing them harm to quite literally track them to their homes and workplaces. Those fantasizing about killing these woman are not simply making a joke along the lines of “women, can’t live with ‘em; can’t kill ‘em.” They are fantasizing about killing real people, and providing would-be evil-doers maps to their doors.
AVfM is an American site, in English; these specific women live in Sweden. While it is a real possibility, it seems unlikely that anyone reading the site will literally find and murder any of those involved in the SCUM production. At least I hope that this does not come to pass.
I don’t believe that either Paul Elam or John the Other literally wants any feminist to be killed. The real intent behind AVfM’s publishing people’s personal information, it seems clear, is to intimidate feminist writers and activists into shutting up, to make clear that if they post something that offends the internet vigilantes at AVfM they will face the possibility of some deranged individual quite literally showing up at their door intent on doing them harm.
Paul Elam and John the Other claim that they’re not advocating violence. But they are playing a dangerous game here. If some deranged individual, inspired by the hyperbolic anti-feminist rhetoric on AVfM, and armed with information provided by “Register-Her.com,” murders or otherwise harms a feminist blogger or activist or video maker, Elam and his enablers will have blood on their hands. As will those MRAs who continue to publicly support and/or link to AVfM and/or Register-Her.com.
This is not the way a legitimate rights group deals with those who disagree with them. This is what hate groups do.
So, the (in my opinion extremely likely) possibility that the young women in the video were performing a parody of the stereotype of man-hating feminists is not one to be considered? You know, pointing out the absurdity using satire?
Poor taste? Offensive? Yes. Glorifying murder? I doubt it.
“Accountable” meaning potential targets of violence? For making a video? Yes, that is a big problem.
And that would be true if the genders were reversed. Here’s a picture someone posted to Reddit the other day; it got lots of upvotes and positive comments.
http://i.qkme.me/35bviq.jpg
Do I think the person who posted that should be hunted down? No, I don’t.
The picture was a joke, albeit a hateful one. The SCUM video was part of a theatrical production, albeit a hateful one.
Yes I do.
Since people are requesting the banning of Br*ndon, MRAL, and good ol’ Owlslave, may I suggest an American Idol-style troll battle? PZ Myers did something similar with his more annoying creationist trolls a while back. It was very entertaining.
We could challenge NWO to describe a non-slutty oufit, for example, or Br*ndon to admit he was wrong about something. After each round someone gets voted off of Manboobz Island.
Hmm, well that’s an interesting interpretation of what I said.
Can we challenge Meller to say something about women in a way that doesn’t make every woman reading feel really creeped out?
Mr. “I’m being overly literal on purpose” doesn’t seem to realise that spelling and grammar are different.
@kirby: Well I took it the opposite way. I saw it as a handful of girls celebrating killing an innocent man, laughing and giggling at what they did…then stamp a big call to action at the end.
Seriously, District 9? One can clearly see that those posters are marketing for a movie. 1) mentions non-humans, 2) shows aliens 3) gives website at bottom of ads. One can clearly see that they are being used to sell movie tickets.
Scum video. No mention of website in video, shows woman on man violence which is very real as opposed to human on alien violence which has never happened. And if it was marketing for a play…they might want to actually include that info in their “advertisement”. Maybe these girls need to take a Marketing 101 course
Very poor analogy.
“Scum video. No mention of website in video, shows woman on man violence which is very real as opposed to human on alien violence which has never happened. And if it was marketing for a play…they might want to actually include that info in their “advertisement”. Maybe these girls need to take a Marketing 101 course”
So you read Swedish now?
Oh, and Owly is reminding me more and more of the dude I met who was convinced he was being persecuted by Mennonites. MENNONITES. He thought they were spying on him and peeing on his car and *reading his emails*. I was like, how are they pulling that one off? With a horse-powered computer?
Granted he’s a lot ragier than the Mennonite conspiracy guy, but it’s equally as difficult to take him seriously. But then I mostly ignore him.
By setting them up to be stalked, harassed and murdered? Yes.
Don’t know what David thinks, but I think it’s a problem. Just not on the same scale, not nearly. If nothing else, it’s less likely to get someone killed.
1) Cite please
2) Even if true, what does this have to do with anything?
3) You know the overwhelming majority of those murders are committed by other men, right?
4) You know that women get murdered and men get raped, right? Why not compare apples to apples?
@Brandon:
So… You think its believable that a couple of teenage girls walk up to some random dude, shoot him, and lick the blood off of his head? Sounds like a bad slasher film rather than real life…
Then they ain’t squawkin’. Please, in earnest man…link to some.
@CassandraSays ‘In the Brown case were the names accompanied by comments like I HOPE SOMEONE DOES SOMETHING ABOUT HIM (nudge nudge, wink wink, btw here’s his address)?’
No they were just tagged with ‘Do your part’ along with a artistic drawing of an execution of a male to advertise etc…
@hellkell ‘Didn’t that Brown thing happen quite a while ago? Yeah, that kind of sucks, but can the MRAs please pick something from this decade to snit over?’
I’m not sure what your looking for exactly but I’m, certain any mrm site or even the reddit feed will have various injustices from this decade.
How about gender apartheid in Denmark?
http://www.theprovince.com/news/Danish+hotel+flouts+reserves+floor+women/5749566/story.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Or lying to men about being on birth control to force fatherhood upon him, regardless of his wishes, thats pretty modern no? This still isn’t a crime, in any western country, even when admitted to or proven.
http://i.imgur.com/QS1FW.png
How about lobbying for parents to prefer girls over boys, without real evidence or facts, and doing so by slandering boys.
http://www.hopeitsagirl.com/
Finally can I attached genocide to all feminists in the same way you are ascribing the actions of AVFM to the entirety of the MRM? Many of the commenters here have stated that ‘normal’ or ‘sane’ men wouldn’t stand for the beliefs and actions of AVFM, however this no reason to attach those actions nor beliefs to the entire MRM. It is no more justifiable to highlight the actions of a small group of men and say ‘that is what the mrm stand for’ than it is to attach genocide to all feminists.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/world/africa/25rwanda.html?_r=1
Minister for women.
@lauralot
Ah thanks for clearing that up, I hadn’t see NWO’s previous posts glorifying the rape of 8 year olds nor making women sex slaves. I’m glad you aren’t attaching his believes to the Mrm in general.
@Laura: That video was in english.
The website bokascum.se contains one page and two paragraphs. One in swedish and one in english. Judging by the words in both paragraphs, the english seems an exact translation.
I also like how they compare their “trailer” to that of Fight Club and Inglorious Bastards. I remember seeing both those trailers and I also remember that their was a narrative and some context as to what was being shown.
And honestly, the fact that they did a play on SCUM just shows how fucked up sweden is. What next? Are the Germans going to start Mein Kampf?
I am not saying it should be censored or banned in anyway. I just find it very telling that people would think this is “quality work”.
Dude, right on the first page of “Hope It’s a Girl” is the following really obvious disclaimer:
“Disclaimer: This site isn’t completely real. It’s a project for Fast Company magazine, designed to address the issue of perspective [sic] parents disproportionately wanting a boy. The stats aren’t real. The submissions aren’t real. But the issue is. So look around. Enjoy yourself. And maybe learn something in the process.”
How do you people manage to get so worked up about things without even taking a cursory glance at them first?
Samuel Rosin:
I agree. So do most of the feminist commenters here. (Possibly all. I haven’t been keeping score…)
Expose them for what purpose?
You’re new to this, aren’t you? Please excuse me while I have a hearty laugh at your ignorance. No, most MRAs hate women. They hate women a lot. Whatever issues men have — and there are issues that affect men, and that should be taken seriously — the MRM has chosen to mostly ignore them, except when giving token voice to them advances their primary, woman-hating agenda.
Find me an MRM site that talks about men’s issues and doesn’t talk about how icky, lazy, stupid, slutty, or inferior women are. Please.
Dude. That’s what I’m saying.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2009/crime2009
According to the UCR, there were more than 10 times as many forcible rapes than there were murders in 2k9. Further, the UCR is solely done from police reports; therefore, the amount of rape was drastically undercounted, because this is the USA. Either you are contending there is an even more massive underreporting of murder than rape (Unlikely), or you are full of horse shit.
@Brandon:
“I am not saying it should be censored or banned in anyway. I just find it very telling that people would think this is “quality work”.”
Erm… Who exactly thought it was ‘quality work?’ Is that even a quote, or are those scare quotes?
Did you even read that article? It was found to be illegal, and if they don’t change the policy, the man in question will be able to sue for damages.
@Kirby: Believability isn’t the issue here. It is them glorifying killing an innocent man that is upsetting.
If they pointed out the guy raped one of the girls or he was a bank robber or some other criminal, I wouldn’t be upset.
He was shot at point blank range for no other reason than being a man. Then to have your death be celebrated as if it was good…is just appalling.
Urk… So the dialogue between feminists and MRAs that come here seems to be this:
Feminist: Look at this thing you are supporting, it’s terrible!
MRA: Oh yeah? Look at all these things you support!
Feminist: I don’t support any of those things…
MRA: YES YOU DO!
*sigh* Ah well, back to watching old miyazaki films…
Unless he says something particularly hilariously wrong, I tend to ignore slavey these days. Occasionally, though, he’s good for a laugh.
Brandon, though, is just fucking tedious. I can’t even bring myself to care about his not caring.
@Brandon:
If believability isn’t the issue, then why was it an issue when I brought up the district 9 posters? Way to swing those goal posts around, dude.
See, the thing about it being an advert for a play is that… they are not celibrating the death of a random man. It’s called acting, you know? That thing where you do something in a movie that you wouldn’t actually do in real life? The MRA threats on the other hand… Good luck trying to prove that they are acting.
As people said before. Is it tasteless? Sure. Is it dangerous? No. Is this really that hard to understand?
@kirby: I am actually mocking it. Solanas and SCUM are the complete opposite of quality. I mean, if SCUM is making a comeback, can we bring back blackface too?
I am anti-censorship and I am not attacking these girls for distributing a video. I am attacking these girls for the content of it. I just think it means that man-hatred is perfectly acceptable in Sweden. Along with all the other stupid shit that comes out of Sweden.
…the hotel lost you illiterate buffoon.
You know, you’re talking to a socialist who wants to remove the very thing you seem to find to be the problem, the child support (I mean, I want ot shift it to a communal tax that everyone pays into and that parents under 150k or so receive the benefits from, but that’s not the same as individualized child support).
Bullshit photoshop, that’s just how I like to argue my points.
AVFM is the biggest thing you idiots have.
You do realize there is no evidence this woman is even a feminist to begin with, right? The comparable example is if we were putting Hitler on the MRM, and we’re not doing that.