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antifeminism misandry misogyny MRA paul elam threats violence against men/women

Men’s Rights site A Voice for Men offers $1000 “bounty” for personal information on Swedish feminists

A Voice for Men, one of the most influential and popular Men’s Rights websites, is now offering a $1000 “bounty” for anyone able to track down the personal information of several Swedish women involved in a tasteless video advertising a theater production based on Valarie Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. As the anonymous poster calling himself John the Other – the second-in-command at AVfM – put it in a posting yesterday (emphasis in original):

We are asking for the full legal names, home addresses, places of employment, email addresses and contact phone numbers of the women and man who produced and starred in the video described above. We will pay 1000 dollars to any individual who provides and confirms this information, to be paid either directly to themselves or to a charity of their choice.

John explains that this information will be posted on the AVfM-affiliated site Register-Her.com, an “offenders database” that is being used to vilify individual feminists and “Fuck Their Shit Up,” as AVfM head honcho Paul Elam likes to put it. John notes that Regsiter-Her.com also intends to post the “government identification numbers [and] drivers licences” of the women they are able to identify.

John admits plainly that posting such information may put the physical safety of these women at risk from vigilante violence. As he puts it (emphasis mine):

Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.

The comments posted on the article at AVfM suggest that such “retributive” violence is a real possibility. Indeed, here’s the very first comment (which currently has 17 upvotes from readers of the site):

A commenter called  Xnomolos, in another upvoted comment, adds:

i would love to hunt down these women myself.

JinnBottle responds to this comment by advising “all men to start carrying guns.”

The commenters on AVfM have already uncovered the identities of all of the women involved in the video. The blogger Fidelbogen has been the most active internet detective so far.

There is no question that the video itself is offensive, and designed to provoke. You can see it here; I’m not going to embed it on this site. If you don’t want to watch it: it depicts a young woman shooting a man in the head for no reason. Afterwards the woman and her gleeful, giggling accomplices do a victory dance, then lick the blood from the dead man’s head. A message at the end urges viewers to “Do Your Part.”

Every feminist I know who has seen the video has been appalled by it. I’m appalled by it. It’s hateful, and it’s wrong.

But John the Other, and the other commenters on AVfM, claim that it is more than this: that that the video of the staged murder, intended to provide publicity for a theater production based on Solanas’ notorious SCUM manifesto, is quite literally an open call for the murder of men. As John the Other puts it:

Open advocation of murder cannot be allowed in a civil society, without that society devolving into a culture of brutal violence.

Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.

Is the video a literal call to murder? Is it, as one AVfM commenter puts it, evidence of a “conspiracy to commit mass murder?” No. Violence and murder have been dramatized in the theater since its beginnings. No one accuses Sophocles of advocating fratricide and incest, though both are dealt with in his play Oedipus Rex. No one accuses Shakespeare of advocating mass murder, though many of his most famous plays have body counts that put many horror films to shame.

Does the tag line at the end of the video – “do your part” – transform the video from a depiction of murder  into an open call for it? No. The “threat,” such as it is, is vague; it’s not aimed at any specific individuals. It might be seen as akin to someone wearing a t-shirt that says “kill ‘em all, let God sort them out” – tasteless and offensive, but not a literal threat.  “Kill ‘Em All” is actually the name of Metallica’s first album. While a lot of people see James Hetfield,  Lars Ulrich et al as pompous idiots, they have not been jailed for conspiracy to commit mass murder. That would be ridiculous.

Someone claiming to have been involved in the SCUM-inspired theatrical production in question has posted several detailed comments on AVfM, explaining that those involved in the production are “not out to get you” and that the video itself was “meant as a viral “wtf?!” to give attention to both the questions that it raises and the play itself.”

By contrast, AVfM is targeting specific individuals, and intends to offer information that would allow anyone intent on doing them harm to quite literally track them to their homes and workplaces. Those fantasizing about killing these woman are not simply making a joke along the lines of “women, can’t live with ‘em; can’t kill ‘em.” They are fantasizing about killing real people, and providing would-be evil-doers maps to their doors.

AVfM is an American site, in English; these specific women live in Sweden. While it is a real possibility, it seems unlikely that anyone reading the site will literally find and murder any of those involved in the SCUM production. At least I hope that this does not come to pass.

I don’t believe that either Paul Elam or John the Other literally wants any feminist to be killed. The real intent behind AVfM’s publishing people’s personal information, it seems clear, is to intimidate feminist writers and activists into shutting up, to make clear that if they post something that offends the internet vigilantes at AVfM they will face the possibility of some deranged individual quite literally showing up at their door intent on doing them harm.

Paul Elam and John the Other claim that they’re not advocating violence. But they are playing a dangerous game here. If some deranged individual, inspired by the hyperbolic anti-feminist rhetoric on AVfM, and armed with information provided by “Register-Her.com,” murders or otherwise harms a feminist blogger or activist or video maker, Elam and his enablers will have blood on their hands. As will those MRAs who continue to publicly support and/or link to AVfM and/or Register-Her.com.

This is not the way a legitimate rights group deals with those who disagree with them. This is what hate groups do.

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Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

Trust me Rutee, I don’t want to have sex with feminists. It would be terrible. So I am not saying they should prioritize anything.

Hershele Ostropoler
13 years ago

hellkell:

Shorter NWO: Dave, I reject your study as biased, and I’m saying 8,000 people is too small sample. So neener-neener.

NWO, 8,000 people is actually a pretty good sample size.

What are the odds that when Slavey sees polls he disagrees with he rejects them on the grounds that “they nver asked me“?

bionicmommy:

Obviously, the women who are acquitted were able to convince a jury of their innocence

That’s only obvious if you think the justice system is supposed to work the same way for men and women.

Brandon:

@Hellkell: I don’t have a criminal record. Never went to prison. Never committed a violent crime.

The very fact that you treated it as a serious statement of fact rather than a random dig speaks to a childish literalism.

Brandon:

Regardless of if you think it is a war or isn’t. They perceive it to be one.

They do say the easiest enemy to defeat is one that doesn’t know they’re at war.

rper1959
13 years ago

“Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.” Liar Futrelle

You are one warped psycopath, the call is for these evil women’s ideology and advocating violence to be exposed, if they are happy to publish their hatred on youtube ( whose terms of use it breaches) then why should they fear having their employers, families or others konw what they are openly advocating? Be good little feminists and display the courage of your convictions to the world or post your crap privately.

pecunium
pecunium
13 years ago

katz: You went to one of the Pomona Colleges? Cool beans.

Lauralot
Lauralot
13 years ago

You know someone’s run out of legitimate arguments when all they can do for a comeback is mess up their opponents’ names.

Wait, I take that back. Brandon’s never had legitimate arguments.

Bee
Bee
13 years ago

Bee, you got called Hornet! He’s really fucking with us now!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! The burn! It’s burny!

Everything is a thing…I am a thing, you are a thing, my wallet is a thing.

Funny. I’m a person, of course. Brandon, please understand that playing stupid only really works when you’re not, in fact, stupid. Might want to try another ploy.

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

@Hershey: I am very well aware that you are all digging on me. I find it mildly amusing. What is funnier is that I am well aware that my answers are overly literal and you think I am being serious.

If the “gender war” actually went violent, It would be the end of feminism.

Sharculese
13 years ago

it might be neat if he was at least putting some effort into it, but changing ‘cassandra’ to ‘alexandra’. what is that?

Lauralot
Lauralot
13 years ago

If the “gender war” actually went violent, It would be the end of feminism.

Except for the part where it would be the tiny number of MRA nutcases against all feminists and other women and all sane men?

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

@Waspy: Then be a person…like I give a shit.

Sharculese
13 years ago

brandon, it’s not actually any less lame if youre only pretending to be an obtuse creep for attention

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

@Lauralot: Well see. But if civil war broke out in the US, the last thing people would be worrying about is abortion, equal wages and “personhood”.

Sharculese
13 years ago

i trolled the comment section of a blog with a bunch of rambling nonsense for like three hours. take that feminism?

Lauralot
Lauralot
13 years ago

Aw, I’m not special enough for him to fuck up my name.

It wouldn’t be a civil war. It would be a handful of nutjobs against the entire rest of the country.

Sharculese
13 years ago

But if civil war broke out in the US, the last thing people would be worrying about is abortion, equal wages and “personhood”.

yeah, i mean the us never had a civil war to defend anyones rights or humanity before. that totally did not happen.

Bee
Bee
13 years ago

i trolled the comment section of a blog with a bunch of rambling nonsense for like three hours. take that feminism?

Bored those feminists to death!

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
13 years ago

Hooray, it’s everyone’s favorite game! Say stupid shit, then say it’s all just a joke!

Yo Brandon, word to the wise. People can only know you by what you say on here. If all you say is stupid shit, it doesn’t matter what you’re like in real life. On here, you are an idiot. Now, if you were to suddenly stop saying stupid shit… perhaps then your claims of wit would be more plausible.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
13 years ago

It’s cute how he thinks that a few thousand guys, at a generous estimate, could create civil war. That would take, what, maybe one military regiment to crush?

Rutee Katreya
13 years ago

yeah, i mean the us never had a civil war to defend anyones rights or humanity before. that totally did not happen.

It really didn’t. The South was ultra concerned with keeping its slaves, but the North was not really fighting to free them either. It was more the captive markets, cheap cotton, etc.

Rutee Katreya
13 years ago

It’s cute how he thinks that a few thousand guys, at a generous estimate, could create civil war. That would take, what, maybe one military regiment to crush?

We’re talking about men’s rights idiots. An actual movement that was that small? Sure, there are people who would actually believe in their cause and maybe even fight for it. This is more like a hundred cops, tops, and then just to make sure everyone got to jail.

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

@parkinglot: Feel better?

Ya, if war broke out right now. But I doubt it will. The country will just become more and more split (politically/morally/ethically) and the states will try to secede from the federal government.

In fact, I wouldn’t be opposed to states seceding from the federal government. If states or groups of states want to leave…let them. Hell, it would probably be better. The blue states can get all the progressive and single payer healthcare they want and the red states can get what they want without the blue states getting in their way.

Lauralot
Lauralot
13 years ago

“Parkinglot”? That’s the best you can do?

Come back when you develop some wit.

Sharculese
13 years ago

wow brandon that is a totally new and unique theory of government that has not been suggested by any afternoon drive-time dj ever

Sharculese
13 years ago

@rutee

i know nuance exists. you know nuance exists. but im talking to brandon. brandon

Brandon
Brandon
13 years ago

@Sharky: Ya, this is manboobz. I am not writing a research paper.

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