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antifeminism misandry misogyny MRA paul elam threats violence against men/women

Men’s Rights site A Voice for Men offers $1000 “bounty” for personal information on Swedish feminists

A Voice for Men, one of the most influential and popular Men’s Rights websites, is now offering a $1000 “bounty” for anyone able to track down the personal information of several Swedish women involved in a tasteless video advertising a theater production based on Valarie Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. As the anonymous poster calling himself John the Other – the second-in-command at AVfM – put it in a posting yesterday (emphasis in original):

We are asking for the full legal names, home addresses, places of employment, email addresses and contact phone numbers of the women and man who produced and starred in the video described above. We will pay 1000 dollars to any individual who provides and confirms this information, to be paid either directly to themselves or to a charity of their choice.

John explains that this information will be posted on the AVfM-affiliated site Register-Her.com, an “offenders database” that is being used to vilify individual feminists and “Fuck Their Shit Up,” as AVfM head honcho Paul Elam likes to put it. John notes that Regsiter-Her.com also intends to post the “government identification numbers [and] drivers licences” of the women they are able to identify.

John admits plainly that posting such information may put the physical safety of these women at risk from vigilante violence. As he puts it (emphasis mine):

Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.

The comments posted on the article at AVfM suggest that such “retributive” violence is a real possibility. Indeed, here’s the very first comment (which currently has 17 upvotes from readers of the site):

A commenter called  Xnomolos, in another upvoted comment, adds:

i would love to hunt down these women myself.

JinnBottle responds to this comment by advising “all men to start carrying guns.”

The commenters on AVfM have already uncovered the identities of all of the women involved in the video. The blogger Fidelbogen has been the most active internet detective so far.

There is no question that the video itself is offensive, and designed to provoke. You can see it here; I’m not going to embed it on this site. If you don’t want to watch it: it depicts a young woman shooting a man in the head for no reason. Afterwards the woman and her gleeful, giggling accomplices do a victory dance, then lick the blood from the dead man’s head. A message at the end urges viewers to “Do Your Part.”

Every feminist I know who has seen the video has been appalled by it. I’m appalled by it. It’s hateful, and it’s wrong.

But John the Other, and the other commenters on AVfM, claim that it is more than this: that that the video of the staged murder, intended to provide publicity for a theater production based on Solanas’ notorious SCUM manifesto, is quite literally an open call for the murder of men. As John the Other puts it:

Open advocation of murder cannot be allowed in a civil society, without that society devolving into a culture of brutal violence.

Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.

Is the video a literal call to murder? Is it, as one AVfM commenter puts it, evidence of a “conspiracy to commit mass murder?” No. Violence and murder have been dramatized in the theater since its beginnings. No one accuses Sophocles of advocating fratricide and incest, though both are dealt with in his play Oedipus Rex. No one accuses Shakespeare of advocating mass murder, though many of his most famous plays have body counts that put many horror films to shame.

Does the tag line at the end of the video – “do your part” – transform the video from a depiction of murder  into an open call for it? No. The “threat,” such as it is, is vague; it’s not aimed at any specific individuals. It might be seen as akin to someone wearing a t-shirt that says “kill ‘em all, let God sort them out” – tasteless and offensive, but not a literal threat.  “Kill ‘Em All” is actually the name of Metallica’s first album. While a lot of people see James Hetfield,  Lars Ulrich et al as pompous idiots, they have not been jailed for conspiracy to commit mass murder. That would be ridiculous.

Someone claiming to have been involved in the SCUM-inspired theatrical production in question has posted several detailed comments on AVfM, explaining that those involved in the production are “not out to get you” and that the video itself was “meant as a viral “wtf?!” to give attention to both the questions that it raises and the play itself.”

By contrast, AVfM is targeting specific individuals, and intends to offer information that would allow anyone intent on doing them harm to quite literally track them to their homes and workplaces. Those fantasizing about killing these woman are not simply making a joke along the lines of “women, can’t live with ‘em; can’t kill ‘em.” They are fantasizing about killing real people, and providing would-be evil-doers maps to their doors.

AVfM is an American site, in English; these specific women live in Sweden. While it is a real possibility, it seems unlikely that anyone reading the site will literally find and murder any of those involved in the SCUM production. At least I hope that this does not come to pass.

I don’t believe that either Paul Elam or John the Other literally wants any feminist to be killed. The real intent behind AVfM’s publishing people’s personal information, it seems clear, is to intimidate feminist writers and activists into shutting up, to make clear that if they post something that offends the internet vigilantes at AVfM they will face the possibility of some deranged individual quite literally showing up at their door intent on doing them harm.

Paul Elam and John the Other claim that they’re not advocating violence. But they are playing a dangerous game here. If some deranged individual, inspired by the hyperbolic anti-feminist rhetoric on AVfM, and armed with information provided by “Register-Her.com,” murders or otherwise harms a feminist blogger or activist or video maker, Elam and his enablers will have blood on their hands. As will those MRAs who continue to publicly support and/or link to AVfM and/or Register-Her.com.

This is not the way a legitimate rights group deals with those who disagree with them. This is what hate groups do.

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hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Yes, feminism is a hate group, we hate the menz, and we would have gotten away with it if not FOR YOU! It took you and all your manly manliness to expose our dastardly plot!

VoiP
VoiP
10 years ago

@Voip: Funny, I can say the same about you….same insults all the time. In fact, I know what you are going to latch on to when you read my posts. Very predicable.

Let me guess: you won’t back this up with concrete examples?

Brandon
Brandon
10 years ago

@hellkell: I don’t care about Lauralot so I don’t really care what she does. I was merely pointing out that by 1) not actually having sex or 2) not feeling sexual attraction seems like a diminished life to me.

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

Oh god, hellkell, don’t tell him that. He might believe it.

Moewicus
Moewicus
10 years ago

Ellipses can hide a lot. One should be a bit suspicious when too many ellipses are present. Take this for example.

Nazis….Jews
KKK…..Blacks
Feminism….Men

The ellipses here hide the following:

Nazis wanted to, and did, murder many Jews.
[The] KKK murdered Blacks to reinforce the racist social order.
Feminism sees Women as equals with Men.

Funny how tricky those little dots can be! Be more careful next time, Brandon, excessive use of ellipses sort of made you look like a misogynistic moron!

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

Protip for Brandon: No one cares what you view as a diminished life. From what you’ve told us of your life, it’s pretty damn pathetic anyway.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

I thought there were things you liked about feminism. Now we’re a hate group.

The goalposts, they keep moving.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

not feeling sexual attraction seems like a diminished life to me.

Not for you to decide, assjack. That’s what I meant by concern trolling–pity doesn’t sit well on you.

VoiP
VoiP
10 years ago

From what you’ve told us of your life, it’s pretty damn pathetic anyway.

Hold on now, Laura: he and Ashley have sex slowly and also sometimes quickly, against the wall. Why, he’s done just about all the kinds of sex there are!

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

Well, gee, VoiP, when you put it that way, I guess you’re right!

VoiP
VoiP
10 years ago

Brandon, Not feeling sexual attraction to men, and not watching them get it on, seems like a diminished life to me. I’m sooooo sorry.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

I just bet Ashley’s into anal too! She loves everything!

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

Brandon should try fucking a sheep. After all, how does he know his life isn’t diminished without bestiality?

Brandon
Brandon
10 years ago

@hellkell: I agree with first and second wave feminism…but third wave feminism is just about “the endless struggle between men and women”. No real concrete objectives, just a bunch of disorganized crap that often leads into why men are to blame for all of the worlds ills.

LyssatakeaBow
LyssatakeaBow
10 years ago

“I love how he thinks he can spot a feminist on sight.”

Have you forgotten his special super secret screening process?!

He asks women if they’re feminists. It’s foolproof!

yeah i find that funny too. people don’t realize i’m a feminist (gender equalist, whatever, humanist, i don’t care for labels i don’t rail against the “f” word either though) until I ask them to please not talk about how almost all women are catty “sluts” that can’t be trusted. Radical of me, I know.

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

If only feminists would let you be king, Brandon! You’re sure set us third wavers straight!

/sarcasm

VoiP
VoiP
10 years ago

Why, he’s done just about all the kinds of sex there are!

It’s like sex is a food processor, and all you have to do is change the speed. They’ve done everything from “Pulse” to “Frappe”!

VoiP
VoiP
10 years ago

third wave feminism is just about “the endless struggle between men and women”. No real concrete objectives, just a bunch of disorganized crap that often leads into why men are to blame for all of the worlds ills.

My name is Brandon, and I don’t read.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Well, I’m so glad you find 1st and 2nd wave feminism acceptable.

No one here gives a shit what you think.

Brandon
Brandon
10 years ago

@Voip: Really? Get better insults. Sex is nothing like a blender

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

Wait, so he doesn’t like third wave because it’s disorganized crap.

He thinks feminism is a hate group on par with Nazis and the KKK.

Therefore, Nazis and the KKK have no objective goals, just disorganized crap.

Don’t know a lot about history, do you Brandon?

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

Food processor =/= blender, Brandon.

You should really get help for your reading difficulties.

VoiP
VoiP
10 years ago

Needless to say, Ashley pretty much is very sexually open, So she likes everything from slow and passionate to thrown up against a wall and fucked.

It’s like sex is a food processor, and all you have to do is change the speed.

@Voip: Really? Get better insults. Sex is nothing like a blender

I feel sorry that you will never understand why this one of the most sublime exchanges in the history of people saying things with words. I weep tears of joy for the state of our educational system.

Rutee Katreya
10 years ago

The stupid, clumsy, poorly-thought-out knives.

He thinks he has a knife set that would put the Guinsu claims to shame, but is somewhere around “spoon handle” level of sharpness..

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

And the knives are made of sandstone.

Brandon
Brandon
10 years ago

@Laura: You are the queen of circular reasoning and “begging the question”. Good job! Do you also want to attack a strawman too?

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

Yeah, taking your words to their logical conclusion is totally begging the question.

Read a book yet?

Rutee Katreya
10 years ago

Brandon, your tastes are too narrow and vanilla to need a ‘sexually open’ woman. Seriously this shit is just barely above Missionary on a kinkometer.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

How in the world did we get on to the topic of Brandon’s sex life? *_*

Hey Brandon, out of curiosity, what are you trying to argue for at the moment?

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

Yeah, you need a sexually open woman for things like flogging, watersports, figging, erotic asphyxiation, bloodplay…

Wall sex? Not so much.

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

SO ABOUT THAT OP WHICH IS ACTUALLY RATHER DISTURBING AND IMPORTANT…

can we hear more details about Brandon’s asinine opinions and mundane questionably-fictional sex life?

Brandon
Brandon
10 years ago

Quite frankly, I wish I actually knew one of you just to see if you are actually as ballsy in person as you are online.

I bet you guys are actually timid little kitty’s

Brandon
Brandon
10 years ago

@Holly: Yes the video is vile and I could give a rats ass about the people that made it.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Ooh ooh ooh, I have balls!

Hmm…

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

Brandon, learn to apostrophe.

Holly, I agree that the OP is terrible and frightening, but with that said, I’m not sure there’s anything we can do about it. Can the site calling for a bounty be reported to some sort of authority?

If not, it seems all we can really do is talk about how horrible the bounty is, which we all seem to be agreement on, except for the trolls.

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

@Holly: Yes the video is vile and I could give a rats ass about the people that made it.

Well, shit, Brandon, now that we’ve gotten your valuable non-opinion, let’s hear all about how you like to fuck!

Do you ever fuck Ashley… medium-speed?

Wetherby
Wetherby
10 years ago

@Laura: Ya, where are all those women that are just dying to find a man to be a stay at home father….oh right pretty much non existent. Like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

I’m married to one, and I know several more.

And one of the reasons why I know several more is that our arrangement whereby my wife goes out to work and I combine working from home with childcare has been so successful on every single level (from the purely mercenary, such as increased disposable income, to the fluffily emotional, such as my kids seeing far more of both their parents) that a number of our friends are working out whether their own situations and skillsets mean that they can pull off something similar.

Kyrie
Kyrie
10 years ago

You’re right brandon, in real life we’re all fluffy kittens. But just pretend otherwise ’cause we like to annoy you.

Brandon
Brandon
10 years ago

Anyways, this has been all nice, but I have a 4 day family reunion to go to.

Happy Thanksgiving 😉

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

Lauralot – I spose you’re right, I just hate to see The Brandon Show Starring Brandon take over threads at his whim.

That “Read A Book” video always bothers me because it’s gotten so completely co-opted by white racists. 🙁

Moewicus
Moewicus
10 years ago

I am not normally a very outgoing person, but if I saw some idiot talking about how feminism is like Nazism and the KKK and how he likes women but not the ones that are uppity, I would laugh in his face like he deserved. Having never seen someone say such things in real life except some conservative politicians on TV, I’m gonna guess no small part of Brandon’s moronity here is due to Internet courage. He’s just so suave and subconscious IRL.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

I’m kind of sad… Brandon missed the chance to flout more of his sexual prowess with his flounce. Where was the “See ya later, folks, I’m off to bone Ashley for four days straight?” Ah well…

I’m confident-ish out in the real world, but reserved. If someone seeks me out, I can hold my own, like that hilarious but disheartening conversation with the Christian dude that ended with the phrase “don’t close your eyes to the truth!”

Hmm, kinda wish I was more outgoing… I feel like there’s a lot of fun things I could do with people if only I had the courage to ask.

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

Moewicus – To be honest, I would be a little afraid of someone in the real world ranting about how women and feminism are evil, because fuck, he’s clearly not a good or entirely rational person and I don’t know what he’s capable of.

This is not something he should take pride in.

cynickal
cynickal
10 years ago

@Lauralot, I live that video!
@Holly, Crap, now I need to not love that video. 🙁

ithiliana
10 years ago

@Brandon: BUt what are your manly thoughts on fourth wave feminism?

Bee
Bee
10 years ago

Yeah, Brandon’s not an MRA at all…

I don’t think he is, actually. He doesn’t seem interested in men’s rights at all, even superficially. I’d call him a BRA.

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
10 years ago

>>Seriously this shit is just barely above Missionary on a kinkometer.

I’ve had first dates that were kinkyer than Brandon’s entire sex life…

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

I am pretty much 100% positive, based on this thread, that Brandon certainly would not want to meet me in real life.

Really truly positive this is the case.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Funny, I’ve been described as a lot of things, but “fluffy kitty” hasn’t been on the list. I’m sure that’s a serious character defect according to our resident Fluffy Appreciation Society of One.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

I wouldn’t want to meet HIM in real life, forget what thinks about me.