A Voice for Men, one of the most influential and popular Men’s Rights websites, is now offering a $1000 “bounty” for anyone able to track down the personal information of several Swedish women involved in a tasteless video advertising a theater production based on Valarie Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. As the anonymous poster calling himself John the Other – the second-in-command at AVfM – put it in a posting yesterday (emphasis in original):
We are asking for the full legal names, home addresses, places of employment, email addresses and contact phone numbers of the women and man who produced and starred in the video described above. We will pay 1000 dollars to any individual who provides and confirms this information, to be paid either directly to themselves or to a charity of their choice.
John explains that this information will be posted on the AVfM-affiliated site Register-Her.com, an “offenders database” that is being used to vilify individual feminists and “Fuck Their Shit Up,” as AVfM head honcho Paul Elam likes to put it. John notes that Regsiter-Her.com also intends to post the “government identification numbers [and] drivers licences” of the women they are able to identify.
John admits plainly that posting such information may put the physical safety of these women at risk from vigilante violence. As he puts it (emphasis mine):
Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.
The comments posted on the article at AVfM suggest that such “retributive” violence is a real possibility. Indeed, here’s the very first comment (which currently has 17 upvotes from readers of the site):
A commenter called Xnomolos, in another upvoted comment, adds:
i would love to hunt down these women myself.
JinnBottle responds to this comment by advising “all men to start carrying guns.”
The commenters on AVfM have already uncovered the identities of all of the women involved in the video. The blogger Fidelbogen has been the most active internet detective so far.
There is no question that the video itself is offensive, and designed to provoke. You can see it here; I’m not going to embed it on this site. If you don’t want to watch it: it depicts a young woman shooting a man in the head for no reason. Afterwards the woman and her gleeful, giggling accomplices do a victory dance, then lick the blood from the dead man’s head. A message at the end urges viewers to “Do Your Part.”
Every feminist I know who has seen the video has been appalled by it. I’m appalled by it. It’s hateful, and it’s wrong.
But John the Other, and the other commenters on AVfM, claim that it is more than this: that that the video of the staged murder, intended to provide publicity for a theater production based on Solanas’ notorious SCUM manifesto, is quite literally an open call for the murder of men. As John the Other puts it:
Open advocation of murder cannot be allowed in a civil society, without that society devolving into a culture of brutal violence.
Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.
Is the video a literal call to murder? Is it, as one AVfM commenter puts it, evidence of a “conspiracy to commit mass murder?” No. Violence and murder have been dramatized in the theater since its beginnings. No one accuses Sophocles of advocating fratricide and incest, though both are dealt with in his play Oedipus Rex. No one accuses Shakespeare of advocating mass murder, though many of his most famous plays have body counts that put many horror films to shame.
Does the tag line at the end of the video – “do your part” – transform the video from a depiction of murder into an open call for it? No. The “threat,” such as it is, is vague; it’s not aimed at any specific individuals. It might be seen as akin to someone wearing a t-shirt that says “kill ‘em all, let God sort them out” – tasteless and offensive, but not a literal threat. “Kill ‘Em All” is actually the name of Metallica’s first album. While a lot of people see James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich et al as pompous idiots, they have not been jailed for conspiracy to commit mass murder. That would be ridiculous.
Someone claiming to have been involved in the SCUM-inspired theatrical production in question has posted several detailed comments on AVfM, explaining that those involved in the production are “not out to get you” and that the video itself was “meant as a viral “wtf?!” to give attention to both the questions that it raises and the play itself.”
By contrast, AVfM is targeting specific individuals, and intends to offer information that would allow anyone intent on doing them harm to quite literally track them to their homes and workplaces. Those fantasizing about killing these woman are not simply making a joke along the lines of “women, can’t live with ‘em; can’t kill ‘em.” They are fantasizing about killing real people, and providing would-be evil-doers maps to their doors.
AVfM is an American site, in English; these specific women live in Sweden. While it is a real possibility, it seems unlikely that anyone reading the site will literally find and murder any of those involved in the SCUM production. At least I hope that this does not come to pass.
I don’t believe that either Paul Elam or John the Other literally wants any feminist to be killed. The real intent behind AVfM’s publishing people’s personal information, it seems clear, is to intimidate feminist writers and activists into shutting up, to make clear that if they post something that offends the internet vigilantes at AVfM they will face the possibility of some deranged individual quite literally showing up at their door intent on doing them harm.
Paul Elam and John the Other claim that they’re not advocating violence. But they are playing a dangerous game here. If some deranged individual, inspired by the hyperbolic anti-feminist rhetoric on AVfM, and armed with information provided by “Register-Her.com,” murders or otherwise harms a feminist blogger or activist or video maker, Elam and his enablers will have blood on their hands. As will those MRAs who continue to publicly support and/or link to AVfM and/or Register-Her.com.
This is not the way a legitimate rights group deals with those who disagree with them. This is what hate groups do.
@Holly: Actually, MRA’s are putting bounties up for information about women.
That information is, like, just for the sake of having it. No reason at all to suspect that they may intend anyone to actually use it to hurt those women. Dum dee dum, let’s all just pretend to be really really stupid in the specific way that’s already been discussed upthread.
Brandon, they have detailed the sort of shit they are going to post. It is identifying information that can be used to track these people down. While discussing how great it’d be if these bitchez died. Even you are not this stupid.
Brandon, why do they want that information? It’s not so they can send them birthday cards.
They’re going to post it publicly for the purposes of:
1) Causing intimidation and humiliation to women who dared to act in a student film, have an opinion, or report a rape.
2) Slandering women to employers/family/etc.
3) Playing the “sure would be a shame if anything happened to them” game because they’re too goddamn dumb and sheltered to understand violence as a real and ugly thing, but they desperately want a new Sodini or Breivik that they can root for from the sidelines.
These are not things that need your “but technically bwah bwah bwah” defense. They really aren’t.
By all means, Brandon, let us split hairs.
I notice you’re still very above it all. If that’s the case, why are you here? There are other outlets for you to exercise your superiority complex.
Brandon: Because that would NEVER lead to women being stalked, threatened, and possibly assaulted. They’re just asking for this information to send those ladies flowers, chocolates, and unicorns that fart glitter, right?
Even you are not this stupid.
it’s not that he’s this stupid (although he is). it’s than anything but being anything but completely literal is an idication of care, and brandon, by aggressively not caring, is the winner. he’s just there, sorting through objective truth, far too special for this humdrum existence where women get death threats and creeps secretly film their sexual partners.
I’m going to vote for evil rather than stupid in this case.
@Sharculese: You are a moron.
@Everyone else: I have no problem with the girls in this video being shamed, criticized and generally have their video made known to a large group of people. Including family, employers and school administrators.
I wouldn’t feel any sympathy towards them if they were denied a job or someone made fun of them because they made this video.
I draw the line at physical assault and stalking.
Reviewing the AVfM comments, some are advocating violence which I don’t agree with. But most of the information they are posting is stuff that is already in the public sphere. They are just taking information these women already made available online and consolidating it.
@Cassandra: Ya, I just spent the last two days handing out turkeys to low income families so they can have a thanksgiving meal…ya…I am evil!
Don’t be so quick to call someone else a moron, chief.
@Cassandra: Yeah–excuse me–ya, he’s evil.
Of course someone who thinks taping a person without consent during sex would be OK with “consolidating information.” What the fuck is wrong with me? Clearly, my worldview is the fucking problem here.
NWO, if you think the DV study is biased, you should bring it up with the World Health Organization. I posted the link to show that there is evidence against the MRA claim that DV is 50/50. The only reason I brought it up is because challenging the 50/50 claim is enough to get a woman “registered” on RH-com as a “bigot”. Eoghan mentioned registering the bloggers at Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown because they disagreed with the MRM’s portrayal of DV. I was saying that was a ridiculous reason to register someone, when there are plenty of studies to back up the position that DV is not 50/50.
Another ridiculous part of RH is that they register women that are acquitted of their crimes. Obviously, the women who are acquitted were able to convince a jury of their innocence, so why should they have a fake public record on the Internet? Who made Elam and the people of AVfM the final judge and jury of guilt or innocence? For all the talk MRA’s have about false accusations, they don’t have a problem with registering women who haven’t been proven guilty of anything in a court of law.
For those that want proof that Elam says this stuff gives him an erection here is a quote he said,
from his June 28 post at AVfM.
Brandon, we don’t give a fuck about your community service requirements, that’s between you and the court.
And we’re right back to stupid again. If identifying information about those women is made public, someone will be crazy enough to use it to hurt them. Have you looked at some of the shit that MRAs write about women they’re angry with? This is not a gentle, peaceful group of people.
The people over at that blog aren’t willing to pull the trigger themselves, but they certainly are delighted to be able to help someone else aim the gun.
>>Hershele – Based on my site analytics…. so far I have two hits from his site. Both of them are from the same person.
I think that was me. I went over to see what he was writing, then I used his link to see what you had written.
I don’t remember doing it twice but it’s possible. lol
@Sharculese: You are a moron.
that may be true but youre a creep, a bore and a petty self-indulgent child so i kind of feel like i got the better side of the deal.
I have no problem with the girls in this video being shamed, criticized and generally have their video made known to a large group of people. Including family, employers and school administrators.
‘dont have a problem with it’ isnt the phrase id choose. ‘get off on it’ feels like a better fit.
@Hellkell: I don’t have a criminal record. Never went to prison. Never committed a violent crime. I know, shocker!!
@Cassandra: They don’t call it a “gender war” for nothing.
So a gender war has to have a body count? Brandon, are you fucking insane?
I am shocked you’ve never appeared before a judge.
There is no war, Brandon, just a group of angry dudes who get off on the idea of hurting women. Which apparently you think is entertaining, because you’re a horrible person.
brandon, i will personally foot the cost of a fancy certificate, vellum with gilt lettering, proclaiming you to be the absolutely totally most special person on the entire planet if you promise to stop boring us with your petty grievances and smug, totally unearned self-righteousness
if, additionally, you promise to spend five whole minutes on actual self-reflection, ill finance having it shipped around the globe so the whole manboobz commenter crew can sign it
@hellkell: My father is an attorney, so when I was younger…I was around judges all the time. 😉
Wow, someone other than me explain to our black hole that a.) “gender war” is a figure of speech and really not used by feminists, and b.) that’s not what feminism is about.
It’s really bad form to go through life this stupid, son.
Oh, right, daddy who taught you all about the law, especially contracts. YAWN.
I don’t have a criminal record. Never went to prison. Never committed a violent crime. I know, shocker!!
in brandons world, the only crimes are violent crimes, and the penalty is community service.
that… explains a lot.
You often can’t diagnose sociopathy until adulthood, and judges are not psychiatrists. I can totally believe that a judge might be an excellent person to teach his unpleasant, lacking in conscience child how to avoid prosecution without actually being a decent human being.