A Voice for Men, one of the most influential and popular Men’s Rights websites, is now offering a $1000 “bounty” for anyone able to track down the personal information of several Swedish women involved in a tasteless video advertising a theater production based on Valarie Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. As the anonymous poster calling himself John the Other – the second-in-command at AVfM – put it in a posting yesterday (emphasis in original):
We are asking for the full legal names, home addresses, places of employment, email addresses and contact phone numbers of the women and man who produced and starred in the video described above. We will pay 1000 dollars to any individual who provides and confirms this information, to be paid either directly to themselves or to a charity of their choice.
John explains that this information will be posted on the AVfM-affiliated site Register-Her.com, an “offenders database” that is being used to vilify individual feminists and “Fuck Their Shit Up,” as AVfM head honcho Paul Elam likes to put it. John notes that Regsiter-Her.com also intends to post the “government identification numbers [and] drivers licences” of the women they are able to identify.
John admits plainly that posting such information may put the physical safety of these women at risk from vigilante violence. As he puts it (emphasis mine):
Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.
The comments posted on the article at AVfM suggest that such “retributive” violence is a real possibility. Indeed, here’s the very first comment (which currently has 17 upvotes from readers of the site):
A commenter called Xnomolos, in another upvoted comment, adds:
i would love to hunt down these women myself.
JinnBottle responds to this comment by advising “all men to start carrying guns.”
The commenters on AVfM have already uncovered the identities of all of the women involved in the video. The blogger Fidelbogen has been the most active internet detective so far.
There is no question that the video itself is offensive, and designed to provoke. You can see it here; I’m not going to embed it on this site. If you don’t want to watch it: it depicts a young woman shooting a man in the head for no reason. Afterwards the woman and her gleeful, giggling accomplices do a victory dance, then lick the blood from the dead man’s head. A message at the end urges viewers to “Do Your Part.”
Every feminist I know who has seen the video has been appalled by it. I’m appalled by it. It’s hateful, and it’s wrong.
But John the Other, and the other commenters on AVfM, claim that it is more than this: that that the video of the staged murder, intended to provide publicity for a theater production based on Solanas’ notorious SCUM manifesto, is quite literally an open call for the murder of men. As John the Other puts it:
Open advocation of murder cannot be allowed in a civil society, without that society devolving into a culture of brutal violence.
Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.
Is the video a literal call to murder? Is it, as one AVfM commenter puts it, evidence of a “conspiracy to commit mass murder?” No. Violence and murder have been dramatized in the theater since its beginnings. No one accuses Sophocles of advocating fratricide and incest, though both are dealt with in his play Oedipus Rex. No one accuses Shakespeare of advocating mass murder, though many of his most famous plays have body counts that put many horror films to shame.
Does the tag line at the end of the video – “do your part” – transform the video from a depiction of murder into an open call for it? No. The “threat,” such as it is, is vague; it’s not aimed at any specific individuals. It might be seen as akin to someone wearing a t-shirt that says “kill ‘em all, let God sort them out” – tasteless and offensive, but not a literal threat. “Kill ‘Em All” is actually the name of Metallica’s first album. While a lot of people see James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich et al as pompous idiots, they have not been jailed for conspiracy to commit mass murder. That would be ridiculous.
Someone claiming to have been involved in the SCUM-inspired theatrical production in question has posted several detailed comments on AVfM, explaining that those involved in the production are “not out to get you” and that the video itself was “meant as a viral “wtf?!” to give attention to both the questions that it raises and the play itself.”
By contrast, AVfM is targeting specific individuals, and intends to offer information that would allow anyone intent on doing them harm to quite literally track them to their homes and workplaces. Those fantasizing about killing these woman are not simply making a joke along the lines of “women, can’t live with ‘em; can’t kill ‘em.” They are fantasizing about killing real people, and providing would-be evil-doers maps to their doors.
AVfM is an American site, in English; these specific women live in Sweden. While it is a real possibility, it seems unlikely that anyone reading the site will literally find and murder any of those involved in the SCUM production. At least I hope that this does not come to pass.
I don’t believe that either Paul Elam or John the Other literally wants any feminist to be killed. The real intent behind AVfM’s publishing people’s personal information, it seems clear, is to intimidate feminist writers and activists into shutting up, to make clear that if they post something that offends the internet vigilantes at AVfM they will face the possibility of some deranged individual quite literally showing up at their door intent on doing them harm.
Paul Elam and John the Other claim that they’re not advocating violence. But they are playing a dangerous game here. If some deranged individual, inspired by the hyperbolic anti-feminist rhetoric on AVfM, and armed with information provided by “Register-Her.com,” murders or otherwise harms a feminist blogger or activist or video maker, Elam and his enablers will have blood on their hands. As will those MRAs who continue to publicly support and/or link to AVfM and/or Register-Her.com.
This is not the way a legitimate rights group deals with those who disagree with them. This is what hate groups do.
I think Elam does some good for the MRM, although I will admit to being a bit disillusioned by him. I was really into the idea of RH.com- bringing to light the wimminz who got away with crimes for having vaginas. But then he starts putting random people on there for being “bigots” and it’s like, immature much? Sure, I dislike Marcotte, but she’s not a criminal, and Valenti is actually okay (for a feminist bitch). And then people like that woman blogger… I think he’s destroying the site’s credibility and effectiveness by making it a political circlejerk. I said as much to him, in pretty much those words, on Reddit, but he didn’t agree with me. It’s his site and all that, but I just don’t think he’s handling it right.
Shorter Eoghan: “How dare you say women are afraid of men! I’d better respond to that with intimidation!”
I’m sort of ticked that he straight-up lied about me, but I’m sure all zero of his readers will immediately leap into action, so whatever. It makes the “A Catalogue of Lies” title pretty funny.
On a slightly more serious note, can we just get rid of NWO entirely?
Seconded. He derails every thread he shows up in with his tedious bullshit. Spouts the same fucking slogans endlessly without contributing a damn thing.
At least MRAL can sort of see where/when he’s gone off the rails. NWO, not so much.
“A catalogue of lies”? Yes, I suppose it is, Eoghan.
Or, like, confine him to Designated NWO Threads somehow. It’s fun sometimes on a light fluffy thread to play the “corner NWO into admitting he doesn’t believe in knowledge itself” game, but it’s incredibly tedious when he tries to play that game when people are trying to actually discuss the OP.
As bad as he is at reasoning, he’s very good at derailing with his left field “OH YEAH WELL TITLE IX” crap, and it would be nice if he wasn’t allowed to do so when we have other things to talk about.
Oh but Nwo is hillarious. That is when he doesn’t make you want to kill yourself, as you realize the depths the human race can plummet.
I’ve stated numerous times in my comments that I don’t condone that video and think it’s disgusting and so has everyone else. This type of shit really ticks me off. Fucking liars.
Agreed.
David Futrelle:
I wonder if people follow his links (assuming people read his blog). I wonder how (or if) they perceive the difference for what the links say and what Eoghan says they say. Does Holly’s blog look different to someone who goes in “knowing” she’s condemning all men indiscriminantly and advocating violence against people who have the temerity to be male?
The MRM doesn’t want to help men. They’re not spending $1000 on a men’s shelter, men’s charity, men’s legal defense fund, or even on creating good publicity for themselves. The only thing they know how to do is attack women.
uh, patrick leahy’s intern did have to read a whole bunch of angry e-mails. that was some Serious Fucking Activism.
Hershele – Based on my site analytics…. so far I have two hits from his site. Both of them are from the same person.
…Who may be Eoghan testing his links.
Even though Dave continually silences me, while giving the privileged sex free reign to call me/men every name in the book.
owlslave if you were really being ‘silenced’ then your posts wouldnt be getting let out of moderation. youre just in time out until you remember how to have a conversation without attacking anyone.
You know what? I’m for banning NWO too. He’s just not interesting enough to keep arguing with, given that he’s just saying the same thing over and over again, and he refuses to stay on topic. I feel like we’re essentially just giving him a bigger platform on which to babble than he could achieve by himself.
@David Futrelle
Dave, why is the smallest study every done the yardstick by which DV is measured? This 8k study is the same study thebionicmommy sent as a link.
http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?menu=c10400&no=383404&rel_no=1
Which included this…
“Women’s Use of Violence”
“Men and women’s use of violence tend to be distinct, too. Women may use violence to show anger, to get attention or to retaliate for emotional hurt or a history of physical abuse. Women often use violence in self-defense or to escape. Moreover, women tend to use violence to control a situation.
Men tend to use violence to control a woman. Thus, this control is used on a continuous basis.
Another difference is where the injury is inflicted. When women harm men, the effects are typically visible: a bite mark, a scratch mark, etc. When men hurt women, the placement may be hidden: bruises on the ribs, strangulation, etc.
Lastly, men are more likely to minimize or deny their violence. Women more readily admit to their use of violence.”
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Have you ever heard anything as biased as this crap?
The largest study ever done was in Atlanta which showed conclusively women commit 70% of non-recipricol DV and initiated the DV more often. It also showed when the DV was recipricol women sustained more damage. But that doesn’t mean they didn’t ititiate the altercation. Just because you lose a fight doesn’t mean you aren’t the initiator and at fault.
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Everyone in the world, and I do mean the world, references this 1 study. The UN uses it. The US uses it. Who were these 8k women they asked? Were they in a DV shelter? What were the parameters? I’ve read the link you provided. 8k isn’t even considered a village.
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Also the studies you gave, and I use that term very loosely, are all done by women advocates, women advocate groups, and women. Janet Reno, Mary Lou Leary, Julie E. Samuels, Patricia Tjaden, Nancy Thoennes.
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Why not just cruise over to radfem and ask those gems about DV. I doubt they can do much worse then, women are violent because their emotionally hurt or escape or to control the situation. Where men hit women where it’s concealed so they can continue to abuse unabated and control the woman.
MRALWT: more mainstream feminist thought. . . .has the potential to actually exert an influence.
And it is, has, and does. Things have changed in the last fifty years (I’m 56, so I have seen quite a few of those changes).
And am working to make even MOAR change.
*evil laugh of feminist glee*
NWO, a detailed survey of a representative sample of 16,000 men and women is not “the smallest study ever done.”
You asked some questions specifically about the methodology of the study; I provided you links to the study and a summary of the study’s findings (which you obviously didn’t read); if you look at them you can see just how they conducted the study.
Yeah, it makes it even harder for you to get laid. Poor baby.
Shorter NWO: Dave, I reject your study as biased, and I’m saying 8,000 people is too small sample. So neener-neener.
NWO, 8,000 people is actually a pretty good sample size.
No one cares about your random bullshit, NWO. We’re not going to play the “NWO posts some random accusations of unrelated TITLE IX VAWA FLOURIDE and we fall all over ourselves to refute each of his points in detail, and then his only response is more random accusations” game in this thread.
MRAs are putting bounties on women. That’s the shit we’re dealing with today.
Sorry, 16k people.
MRAL, do you see where saying “not bad… for a feminist bitch” means you still have a long way to go? Sigh. Baby steps, I guess.
MRAL-correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you were saying that women were not getting away with the crime of having a vagina?
Or are your referring to the non-existent pussy pass that the convicted women had which would have prevented the conviction in the first place?
MRAL, despite your ludicrous “feminist bitch” misogyny, it actually does show through that you’re smarter than the average MRA.
It really makes me hope you’ll grow out of it.
I don’t see what you mean hellkell. I’m not trying to placate you people or suck up or whatever, just calling it like I see it. And IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, I think Elam is being unreasonable. And yes, if you’re a feminist, you must necessarily be a bitch or a mangina. Doesn’t mean some bitches or some manginas aren’t more or less tolerable than others. For example, I much prefer Futrelle to Schwyzer, likewise Valenti to Marcotte.
I’m referring to the pussy pass.
So if anything seriously happens to any of the people with the bounties on their heads, can we officially start calling A Voice for Men a terrorist organization?